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Old 05-11-2016, 09:21 AM   #1
frdbronco8
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Springdale Arctic Package

Just bought a 2013 Springdale 28BHS. It appears to have the "arctic Package" as the underside is covered? No stickers though. Has all of the electric jack options as well.

Anyone know how to tell for sure if its the arctic package and what all that includes? Also anyone have any experience with the Springdale in freezing temps?

We don't go out of our way to camp in the cold but we end up there from time to time.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:43 AM   #2
dcg9381
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If you search the internet, you may find more details on Keystone's arctic package. Note, I know nothing of the springdale, but typical enhancements include:
* limited insulation
* A heater vent diverted into the belly
* heated tanks

Most of what I have read has been negative in regard to real cold weather performance - you might consult Keystone to see if they actually guarantee any sort of cold weather performance. That being said, you'll find that people can and do devise solutions that work in cold weather, but if you expect it to be ready to go from the factory, you may be disappointed.

Having lived in an RV through winter (in a southern state) - generally the only problem that we had was freezing lines going to the RV.. But this really wasn't a constant (all day) freezing temperature in most cases.
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:11 PM   #3
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ON my trailer the sales packet says. "Allows you to camp to zero degrees" without worry of tanks freezing up. I am not sure what your trailer actually has for that label. Guess is heated tanks( as long as the heater is on and blowing warm air to them), covered under trailer with corplast (like a thick plastic) cover. So, the tanks might not freeze at zero but, other things like water pipes might. Be careful if camping in cold temps. Keep heater running or ON all the time cabinets open just to name afew things that might help. I hunt Elk in Nov-Dec most years and there is always a problem with something freezing up.
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:43 AM   #4
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I don't know anything about the Springdale, but I can tell about the Montana HC. Our salesman's pitch was that the "Polar Package" was tested at zero degrees (I think) for like 24 hours and nothing froze. I was laughing at him during his oration, but he kept it up.
Living near Houston on the coast, it's big news if the temp gets below 30. So at the time I thought it was irrelevant anyway.
The Montana HC has the chloroplast cover screwed to the bottom of the frame. It has insulation that looks like bubble wrap on the backside of the chloroplast. I have a small (2"?) furnace duct that terminates near the black tank drain. That's about it.
I used the 5th this January for 5 nights in overnight temps down to 15. I had no issues. I had all the storage bay lights on and 2 trouble lights in the bay with 60watt bulbs on as well. I found water lines that supply the washer/dryer near the storage bay door so I put some slip on foam pipe insulation on them. I used the electric "fireplace" to supplement the furnace. I also used an electric blanket. I was concerned about running out of propane but used only half of one 30# bottle.
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Old 05-12-2016, 05:56 AM   #5
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What does "Extended Season" mean? Im also in Houston so im more concerned about heat than cold. I've been here 27 years and I think Ive only seen about 4 overnight hard freezes and only 1 real bad freeze that lasted a couple days.
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frdbronco8 View Post
Just bought a 2013 Springdale 28BHS. It appears to have the "arctic Package" as the underside is covered? No stickers though. Has all of the electric jack options as well.

Anyone know how to tell for sure if its the arctic package and what all that includes? Also anyone have any experience with the Springdale in freezing temps?

We don't go out of our way to camp in the cold but we end up there from time to time.
We owned a 2011 Springdale 242 fifth wheel. There was no "Artic Package" available on the Springdale line that year and looking at the 2013 brochures on the Keystone website, it doesn't appear that they offered any "cold weather" options that year either. The brochure lists "R-7 walls, floor and ceiling". There is no mention of any increased protection as standard or optional.

Keep in mind that Springdale is one of the most affordable of the Keystone line and doesn't have many of the "upgraded features" of many other brands under Keystone's umbrella.

There was "DARCO" (a plastic coated fiber) used to seal the underbelly on our Springdale. The tanks were exposed "UNDER" the DARCO as was all the plumbing runs for tanks. Above the DARCO was a 2" fiberglass layer, heat ducting and electrical/plumbing runs. I installed 1" "Pink rigid foam" and a coroplast underbelly to the bottom of the frame rails. That provided us with all the protection we needed to make it a "3 season trailer". I would not expect it to be comfortable or usable below about 20-25 F.

You can locate the brochures for your Springdale and all other Keystone products here: http://www.keystonerv.com/brochure-archive
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:18 AM   #7
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Arctic Package, Polar Package, 4 Seasons Package, Arctic 4 Seasons Package, etc. They're all somewhat meaningless unless you have dual pane windows and high R values in the walls, floors and ceiling.
Also if the trailer has any kind of air leaks where exterior items are penetrating the walls or floor then you'll lose heat. One thing that I think lots of buyer don't understand is that with heated and enclosed tanks you have to run the furnace to heat them. That uses a lot of propane. If you're dry camping then you better have several batteries and either a large amount of solar power or a gen to recharge the batteries.
Unless you plan on staying in really cold weather a lot then having heated and enclosed tanks is not that big of a deal. I would much rather have dual pane windows and high R values to deal with the summer heat. Saying that a Springdale TT is good for 0 degrees is kinda funny. With R7 in the walls you'll be freezing unless you run the furnace all the time or happen to have elec and can run a couple space heaters.
Even staying in temps of 35-40 you'll still have to run the heaters a lot.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:19 AM   #8
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This won't answer your question, but...I got caught earlier this year on my way home when it went down to 25 overnight 2 nights. Mine has the "Artic Package" according to the label by the door. Knowing what I know I was a little concerned. I filled the water tank and put away my hose. Put the water heater on electric so it would stay warm. Left some lights on in the compartments and ran the furnace (I normally just use the fireplace when it's not too cold because the furnace whines and is really annoying) plus I wanted to get some heat in the underbelly from the furnace. All went well, nothing froze, and inside stayed nice and warm with the furnace and fireplace set to 70. I was pleasantly surprised. Not that I'll go out of my way to camp when it's that cold, but it's nice to know I can if need be.
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Old 05-12-2016, 10:12 AM   #9
frdbronco8
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Thanks for the responses and the experiences. I don't plan any real winter camping per se but we occasionally end up places where its below freezing for a while. I never had any problems in my old trailer which had totally exposed tanks so I can only assume I will be better off with this one even if its minimally better. I sent my VIN to Springdale and they actually responded pretty quickly and said I had some duct work going to the tanks but they did not know if there was any added insulation in any other part of the trailer.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:18 AM   #10
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Dual/Thermal pane windows are not worth the increased cost for RV's. All they are good for is condensation reduction. The increase in R-value is approximately 1/10th of 1%. Not worth the huge up-charge.
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:12 AM   #11
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Agree. dual pane windows do more for sound dampening than they do for thermal protection. They are NOT thermal windows, as they are not sealed and filled with gas between them like residential thermal windows are. Actually using something Reflectix over the window in below freezing weather will do more than dual pane windows and be far cheaper.

On that idea, lining the wall of the trailer, on the inside of the cabinets (out of sight so it is not an eyesore), with Reflectix will decrease heating demands considerably. Reflectix is a great insulator that is 2 layers of reflective barrier with a middle portion similar to micro bubble wrap sandwiched between them. Whole thing is a little over 1/4" thick. It is a good idea to line the inside of cabinets, dinette seating, etc on the sides that connect to the trailer wall. Not only is Reflectix good for cold weather, but it is a great reflective barrier insulation for hot weather also. Will reduce your A/C cycling also.

Many 'cold weather packages" that RV OEM's use include products like Reflectix in them. Many OEM's use it to line the enclosed belly of trailers. Some even will use it as supplement to ceiling insulation in their cold weather package. It is a great product. Light, easy to mold and work with, and relatively inexpensive. All major home repair stores carry the stuff.
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:19 AM   #12
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Dual/Thermal pane windows are not worth the increased cost for RV's. All they are good for is condensation reduction. The increase in R-value is approximately 1/10th of 1%. Not worth the huge up-charge.
Plus from my understanding, they add considerable weight to the RV also.
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:25 AM   #13
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Yeah, they can, but really only an issue if one is right on the edge of max capacity of either trailer or TV. Depending on number of windows, size, etc, maybe 100 lb. And that will be distributed. It is the inflated additional cost for them that is the problem. They are just not the greatest bang for the buck. As mentioned, they do provide a good level of sound dampening, but each person would have to determine their situation and whether the cost is worth it.
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:48 AM   #14
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Reading the OP's initial post, his question centers around the Arctic Package that's in the Springdale trailer line. Springdale is an entry level Keystone line and has never offered dual pane windows as standard equipment or as an optional feature. They simply aren't available in that trailer. He asks, "Anyone know how to tell for sure if its the arctic package and what all that includes? Also anyone have any experience with the Springdale in freezing temps?"

I owned a 2011 Springdale 242FWSS fifth wheel. There was no coroplast under the trailer. The floor consisted of poplar/whitewood 2x3 joists laid on 16" centers with a DARCO underliner, 2" of spun fiberglass insulation, the center run between the joists carried the aluminum floor heat ductwork and there was one 2" round duct from the furnace that went into the floor area immediately behind the fresh water tank. The gray tank (only one) and the black tank were exposed under the trailer and there was no heat to protect either of them. I installed 1" rigid foam sheeting under the trailer frame and covered that with coroplast. This significantly improved the insulation and was very noticeable with a significant increase in floor warmth during cool weather camping.

Honestly, with R-7 insulation in the walls, floor and ceiling of the Springdale line coupled with the extremely large single pane windows (one of the line's features is large windows to allow the light into the trailer and to make it seem "outdoors") the Springdale is really not much more than a "hardwall tent" when it comes to extremely cold weather camping. It's intended to be a "moderate weather trailer" and when you get beyond that, it doesn't perform well. Can you keep it warm inside? Yes, by using "gastly amounts of propane" and electric heat, but that's not really an affordable option for most people who are looking for an inexpensive camper that fits their limited budget. In other words, people on a budget who want to experience camping and don't have a lot of "spendable cash" to buy a Montana style $50K trailer.

Springdale is an OK trailer in the fringes of the season, but isn't designed, built or equipped for any temperatures much below freezing or over 100 for extended periods. You'll be find on cool nights but you'll probably only spend one trip with temperatures below 20F. That is, unless you've got some significant "arctic blood" in your system.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:26 AM   #15
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The DW and I must just have that "arctic blood". We did 32 nights in ours last winter and I am up to 15 nights already the year.
Will totally agree that if you are don't have access to shore power then it gets rough on the cold nights but on shore power we find it's okay. I run a 1500w electric heater to help out the furnace and on our new years trip we only used about a tank and a half in propane (30lb tank) in 11 nights. Now if I have to run my generator, and the fridge is running on propane when I don't have shore power we certainly burn up a lot of fossil fuels.
Maybe having the three big dogs makes the difference and they are just free heat generators. Only had a couple really cold nights where we put on an extra layer but most evening we are in a pair of sweats/PJ pants and a t shirt.
My biggest cold sinks were actually the pass thru storages in the dinette slide. Cut some of the same insulation John used on his underskin for the outerdoors the help keep the cold from coming thru the doors/hatches. I use those areas for my water storage and the liquor cabinet and they seem to soak up the a ton of cold.
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Old 01-21-2018, 10:44 AM   #16
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Arctic, polar, 4 season means they installed some sort of underbelly with minimal insulation & 1 maybe 2 small ducts from the furnace aimed under there. Once it get VEEERY cold you'll have a difficult time keeping warm especially without shore power to add some extra heat sources.
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