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Old 02-11-2015, 02:54 PM   #1
gfa
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Passport 2810BH

We are looking at buying one of these Passport TT.

2400BH 24'
2650BH 26í Box - Dry 4819 lbs
2810BH 28í Box - Dry 5145 lbs - Gross Weight 7,200 - Total length 31í

I have a 5.7L v8 Toyota Sequoia with a factory tow package. Manual says 10K tow capacity, but I donít think I would want to pull anything over 7,400
Iím wondering about Wheel Base being smaller and sway issues or any serious issues i should be considering.

Plan to add a quality cam weight distribution hitch with sway control.

Dealer says he does not think towing the 28í would be an issue. Says newer passport trailer design combined with WD hitch w sway control will not have issue with sway.

We plan to tour through may states and drive longer distances. Comfort would be great, but my families safety takes priority.

If anyone has helpful advice or experiences, I would greatly appreciate the feedback and help.

Thanks so much!
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:26 PM   #2
Festus2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfa View Post

I have a 5.7L v8 Toyota Sequoia with a factory tow package. Manual says 10K tow capacity, but I donít think I would want to pull anything over 7,400
Iím wondering about Wheel Base being smaller and sway issues or any serious issues i should be considering.

!
gfa -
I've checked a couple of other sites re the Sequoia's towing capacity and I see a range of 7000 lb to 7400 lbs. (Max towing capacity) with a payload of 1300 lbs. The towing capacities don't jive with the figure of 10K in your manual. ????

Perhaps the tow package that you have might account for the differences ???
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:52 PM   #3
gfa
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Thanks Festus2.

Yes, my Sequoia is a 2008 2WD SR5 v8 5.7L - w factory hitch

They are currently rating it at 7,400 even though the manual from 2008 says 10K.

I'm just having trouble understanding what my vehicle is capable of towing safely.
Ive been told the power is fine, but i should be considering the shorter wheelbase, tongue weight, and the rear suspension. Toyota Dealer is not much help either on specifics.

I was going to add airbag suspension, and a good WD hitch with sway control.

Hoping to gain some knowledge and make a good decision.

Thanks again.
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:10 PM   #4
JRTJH
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gfa,

Welcome to the forum. There are factors that affect towing any size RV that go well beyond the vehicle's maximum trailer weight rating. Payload is the most important limiting factor. You haven't said what your vehicle's payload is, nor have you indicated the size (weight) of your family and the cargo you typically have in the vehicle when travelling. That part of your payload will significantly limit the amount remaining for your RV tongue weight.

Assume your Sequoia has a payload of 1400 pounds and your family's weight is 700 pounds, the kids carry 50 pounds of toys, blankets, pillows and snacks, you have a 30 pound tool box and carry a 30 pound ice chest with drinks. That's a total of 810 pounds that must be deducted from your payload. That would leave a maximum of 590 pounds for the trailer WD hitch and tongue weight. The two trailers you've listed the dry weights for will have a loaded tongue weight heavier than 600 pounds and then you must add about 100 pounds for the actual hitch the trailer is attached to. So, you're looking at being overloaded with almost any trailer over 25' long even though you have a "maximum trailer rating" of 7000 pounds.

Depending on the weight you intend to carry inside your Sequoia, you're already "in over your head".

Don't let the salesman talk you into beliving the "maximum trailer rating" listed by Toyota is the only consideration. That maximum rating is calculated with an EMPTY Sequoia. As you load the truck, you must reduce the weight of the trailer to stay under your "GCWR" (Gross Combined Weight Rating) which is the maximum that the total rig can weigh.

Payload is most likely going to be your limiting factor. I don't see any way to carry a family of any size, their "stuff" and the trailer tongue and stay under payload. Keep in mind that as your children get older, they will get heavier and the "toys" they must have to stay entertained will also grow in size and weight as well as will the "requirement" that Mom and Dad let them bring along a friend to keep them company, so your payload will increase from year to year just in family "payload"......

Good Luck !!! And again, Welcome to the forum.
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Old 02-12-2015, 12:24 AM   #5
gfa
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JRTJH,

As a newbie I really appreciate the help and feedback. Going through the estimated numbers:

Payload is 1380#
Family 475#
WD hitch 100#
Misc 125#
Total 700#

680# remaining capacity

Estimated guess at additional weight packed in trailer 750# [I don't plan to tow water]

If i choose a trailer at 4800# or less dry weight with all the options included - load in the 750# and distribute it correctly. Is it safe to assume 10% of the gross weight will be the estimated tongue weight? If my estimates are correct, 560-580# is the number I should keep below 680# remaining capacity.

My numbers may not be totally accurate, but I'm hoping to at least get an understanding of the calculations to start really looking hard at the numbers.

Is their a recommended % to run below payload capacity?

Thanks again for you help! This forum is amazing
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:32 AM   #6
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I think you're on the right track with your calculations, but there are a couple of considerations you need to "crank into" the figures for all Keystone products and possibly for other manufacturers. (I don't know exactly how other manufacturers arrive at their published specifications for their trailers).

On Keystone products, the following is true:

Shipping weight is the empty weight of the trailer without options. If you add/delete anything from the ordered trailer, the shipping weight will change. There is a yellow tag on the roadside front corner of the trailer with the weight of the actual trailer along with its maximum payload. All models of the same trailer brand do not weight the same depending on options on that unit.

Tongue weight/Pin weight is the empty weight of the unit with EMPTY propane tanks and no battery or cargo. The dealer will fill the propane tanks and add at least one 12 volt battery to the unit, so the tongue weight will increase by about 100-150 pounds depending on size of propane tanks and batteries installed.

Calculating tongue weight is best done based on GVW. So, if the trailer has a shipping weight of 4800 pounds and a cargo capacity of 1200 pounds, even if you're going to only load 700 pounds, calculate at the GVW. You never know when you'll have a snow load on the roof or have to tow to a distant dumping station with a full black or gray tank. So do your calculations based on GVW not on "preferred loading". In this case, it would be 6000 pounds.

It is "generally accepted" that most conventional travel trailers tow "best" with a tongue weight between 10-15% of the total weight. With your "relatively short wheelbase Sequoia (compared to a longer truck wheelbase), you may find that you need to add a bit more weight to the tongue for it to track behind your tow vehicle without inducing sway. I recommend you calculate the "high/low range" of the accepted weights. You'll probably fall within the range, but I wouldn't calculate the "best case only" and then find you can't tow at the low end and will be overloaded with anything higher. That's a "sure fire way" of overloading your truck. So, with a GVW of 6000 pounds, the tongue weight should fall between 600-900 pounds (10-15%). Add the weight of the WD hitch to that figure to get your "tongue weight" that will be added to your tow vehicle payload. In this example, the tongue weight should fall between 700-1000 pounds when the hitch is added. I would recommend your consider the "heavy end" so you "know you'll be safe" with any adjustments you might need to make to improve towing.

Usually you can pretty much "count on" being around 12% of trailer weight, but each rig is different. Tire resistance to side roll, vehicle loading, trailer loading, height of hitch, front axle/rear axle performance, CG of tow vehicle/trailer, side winds, road crown ... the list goes on and on with regard to what affects towing..... Change any one of them and performance could (not will) be affected. Consider that a shift to a lighter or heavier tongue weight may be necessary to get best towing capability for your specific rig and you can understand why having a "best window" of 10-15% give you that adaptability. Don't lock yourself in by only calculating the "low end" of an underloaded trailer. Consider that you may have to adapt loading to maximize performance. This is especially true on shorter wheelbase tow vehicles. Your Sequoia, with a 122" wheelbase is in the "short wheelbase" category. To compare, a F150 CC with 6.5' bed has a WB of 150.5".

Most people do recommend you consider a "safety margin" in your calculations. Many will suggest 10%. I recommend 20% when buying a new trailer. To put that into perspective, if you consider your payload of 1380 pounds, 10% is 138 pounds. If your 10 year old son wants to bring along a friend and his bike, at a 10% margin, you're overloaded. That's why I recommend a "newbie" calculate on 20%. There are a lot of "unknowns" for a "newbie" that usually don't get considered when doing the calculations. Things like tire jacks, lug wrenches, levelling blocks, chocks, water jugs, blue tank, X-chocks, stabilizer bars, future mods to store sewer hose, bins to organize "stuff", the Coleman stove, lantern, firewood, charcoal, and the list goes on and on......

I think you're headed in the right direction with your calculations, fine tuning them will hopefully give you some indication of what to expect. Remember that as your family grows, the weight will also increase. Pre-teens are "social beings" and trying to "rip them away from their friends" makes for a stressful camping weekend. While they are content with "tigger and a favorite blanket" as toddlers and very young children, their requirements to be happy become much more sophisticated as they grow older. That means weight, payload and dad's "sanity" will also become "heavier"

Good Luck !!!
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:51 AM   #7
gfa
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Wow John, Thanks!

I've been trying to squeeze details from the Toyota dealership, the trailer dealership, the internet, and my friends....And you've given me more information then all of them combined over the last month. Except you did it in 2 posts.

I have my homework cut out for me.

Thanks so much for the education.

Take Care,
Greg
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:00 AM   #8
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You're most welcome, Greg.

When you get your final figures completed and have a trailer in mind, if you want, run those by the forum and I'm sure you'll get a "thumbs up" or a "thumbs down" or a "It'll work but you should consider" to help you with your decisions. RVing is a great way to spend family time, but it's not cheap, nor is it always the "lightest, most efficient way" to travel. All things considered, it takes a big vehicle and a lot of fuel to move a "mobile box" with all the conveniences of home down the road safely. Normally, it's a struggle for the average family vehicle and most of us learned the hard way that bigger usually is better when it comes to tow vehicles to pull an RV.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:17 AM   #9
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As always John, an excellent breakdown and write up of what to think about and calculate for someone new to RVing.

That should be stored in this forum for future reference.
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Old 02-12-2015, 02:59 PM   #10
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GFA, Thank you for asking questions and understanding the need to know about towing or traveling safe with your family. So many new rvers on here got their TV and RV than try to make them work together after finding out towing or load problems.
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