Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Modifications and Upgrades
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-30-2014, 11:13 AM   #1
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Laredo owners with dual AC units read this..

I recently picked up my new 2015 Laredo 322RL travel trailer which I had ordered with the second bedroom AC unit. I ordered that option based on Keystone's marketing materials that described the "race track" ducted AC system. See http://www.keystonerv.com/media/8945...ster_apr14.pdf
I wanted that system so that on moderately warm days I could run the bedroom AC to cool the trailer in order to keep the AC noise away from the living area while watching TV or conversing.

When I got home and tried the system I found that the bedroom AC was not tied into the duct work. It only blew out of the vents in the grill. It would freeze the bedroom and only cycle on for about 30 seconds at a time because it got cold so fast. I asked a service guy at the dealer and he said he didn't think any of them were ducted. The next day I called Keystone customer service to ask them. The rep there checked with the Laredo team and told me that none were ducted. Didn't care for that answer either. After thinking about it a couple of weeks I sent Keystone a certified letter requesting a refund of my option cost since I couldn't use it as advertised. I knew that was a futile attempt but it made me feel better. I promptly received a call from Keystone and there only suggestion was to take it back to the dealer and let them look at it to see what I had. Geez, I gave them my VIN number and I would have expected for them to be able to tell me what I had. I insisted that I would not take it back to the dealer unless they could assure me the ductwork was there to attach to. I saw no reason to take it to the dealer and leave it for who knows how long only to find out nothing could be done. I'm still waiting on that answer.

So today I decided to take the grills off and look at it myself. What I found was that each side of the AC air box was covered with foil sheets with nothing rigid behind it. So I cut a small hole in the foil to look behind it and found a 1 1/2 X 6 inch foam duct that was in line with the ceiling vents. I cut a small hole in the foam duct and felt air blowing out from the living area AC. Bingo, I found the "racetrack." The duct and the AC unit were separated by a 2 by 2 at the top and bottom. I then decided to go for broke and cut a 1 1/2 x 6 inch opening in the foam duct on each side. On the left the foam was a little further away from the wood so I fabricated a metal duct from some ductwork I picked up a Lowes. I then put it in place and sealed it up with aluminum tape. On the right side the duct was tight against the wood so I was able to just cut the opening and left one long side hinged. I then taped everything with tape to seal it up. This modification was much less effort that hooking the trailer to my truck and going to the dealer. Hope the photos help illustrate this.

Now I get air flow throughout the trailer from either AC unit. And with both units on together the air flow is incredible. There will be no problem cooling the trailer on the hottest days.

I am very disappointed in Keystone. One for not installing the AC properly at the factory to start with. And then secondly for the poor support and communication from Keystone customer service.

Dennis
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	left foam duct2.jpg
Views:	501
Size:	92.7 KB
ID:	6905   Click image for larger version

Name:	left foam duct.jpg
Views:	457
Size:	88.8 KB
ID:	6906   Click image for larger version

Name:	duct1.jpg
Views:	439
Size:	89.9 KB
ID:	6907   Click image for larger version

Name:	left metal duct.jpg
Views:	430
Size:	78.6 KB
ID:	6908   Click image for larger version

Name:	right foam duct1.jpg
Views:	409
Size:	93.6 KB
ID:	6909  

wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 11:18 AM   #2
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Here are a few more photos....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	right duct final.jpg
Views:	457
Size:	90.6 KB
ID:	6910   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5311.jpg
Views:	320
Size:	88.7 KB
ID:	6911   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5295.jpg
Views:	311
Size:	91.8 KB
ID:	6912  
wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 03:08 PM   #3
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 22,089
That's great news for you and I'm sure, a bit embarrassing for the dealership and for Keystone.

If you have it, would you please look at the "build sheet" that came with your trailer and see if both air conditioners are listed on it? I may be totally offbase by thinking this, but I'm inclined to think that the BR air conditioner wasn't installed at the factory. If it is listed on the build sheet in the same handwriting as the remainder of the trailer components, then it's installed in Goshen, but if it's not listed, or written in another handwriting, I'd strongly suspect that Keystone wasn't involved in the addition, but that it was instsalled by the dealership and not properly installed.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 03:53 PM   #4
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
That's great news for you and I'm sure, a bit embarrassing for the dealership and for Keystone.

If you have it, would you please look at the "build sheet" that came with your trailer and see if both air conditioners are listed on it? I may be totally offbase by thinking this, but I'm inclined to think that the BR air conditioner wasn't installed at the factory. If it is listed on the build sheet in the same handwriting as the remainder of the trailer components, then it's installed in Goshen, but if it's not listed, or written in another handwriting, I'd strongly suspect that Keystone wasn't involved in the addition, but that it was instsalled by the dealership and not properly installed.
John,

That was one of my first suspicions. I checked with and it was installed by Keystone.

Dennis
wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2014, 04:04 PM   #5
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 22,089
Then I'd say that points the finger at Keystone and Goshen. If the ducting is present, I'd be led to believe that a worker failed, but with your comments that the Laredo "leadership" was not aware of any A/C's that were installed with the "racetrack feature" would lead me to believe that the "engineering and supply" functions are doing a "racetrack" build, but the assembly line and workerbee's are unaware of why those funny things are in the bedroom ceiling. We already know that "leadership" is the last to know, so we can leave them out of the loop on being the blame. Being the problem, now that's an entirely different matter and they definitely need to get onboard the "tracks" for this one.

Sounds like a big "failure to communicate" at Keystone.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 03:13 AM   #6
byrdr1
Senior Member
 
byrdr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,037
long weekend equals mods to the campers.
Another nice mod. Looks good
randy
__________________

Randy "Camp On"
2011 Cougar 327RES
2014 Ford F-350, 6.7L 4X4, CC, SRW
byrdr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 04:50 AM   #7
Bob Landry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,898
Congrats on finding and fixing the problem. The more posts I read on the RV forums, the happier I am with my trailer.
__________________
2011 Outback 277RL
2013 F250 XLT Crew Cab 6.2L

Bitter Gun Owner
Bitter Clinger
Armed Infidel
Bob Landry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 06:10 AM   #8
hankaye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arrey,
Posts: 2,356
wayfun, Howdy;

Have you communicated your 'Discovery' and your results to Keystone?
I'm sure that they may find it enlightening and someone may also find
it necessary to communicate the problem on down the line to the build teams.
After all you didn't seem to shy about asking about the 'problem' .....

hankaye
__________________
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

Home: 2008 Cougar 278 RKS
T.V.: 2004 F-250 4X4, Level III BulletProofed , Detroit Tru-Track Differential (915A550)
Dog: 2006 Border Collie (Rascal) aka Maximum fur dispersal unit. (08/04/2006 - 12/16/2017) RIP.
hankaye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 06:16 AM   #9
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankaye View Post
wayfun, Howdy;

Have you communicated your 'Discovery' and your results to Keystone?
I'm sure that they may find it enlightening and someone may also find
it necessary to communicate the problem on down the line to the build teams.
After all you didn't seem to shy about asking about the 'problem' .....

hankaye
I haven't yet but I will. They still owe me a return call to tell me if the ducts are present or not. I just got tired of waiting on them and investigated on my own.

Dennis
wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 08:59 AM   #10
cnykamp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1
Question about control of unit

Hey Dennis,

Well done. We traded in for a 2015 Laredo 320tg in August. I was shocked at how pathetic the AC design was. One vent by the door blew hard. By time you get to the bunk room in back there isn't a farts worth of air blowing. When I brought this up with the folks at Lazy Days they said, "yeah, this is a known design problem." Gee, thanks Lazy Days for telling me that afterwards.

I figured I'd add the second unit in front and the extra airflow would get cool air to the back. When I asked about ducting in the second AC unit they said no, you can't. Translation, they aren't going to do it. However, can see the duct runs past the roof vent in the front bedroom. I've been contemplating cutting in ducts myself but have been hesitant. Thanks for blazing the trail and providing pictures.

First question I have is about controlling the unit (on/off and temp). Are you tied into the thermostat? If so, how? Or are you just using the controls on the second unit?

Second, just to confirm, you didn't need to remove the second unit to access the side/ducts?

Thanks for the feedback.

Chad
cnykamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 11:38 AM   #11
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 12,951
I know this is a little late to this thread but I'm curious like cnykamp. I had a 2nd ac added to our 14 cougar high country 319rls. When I bought it the sales guy said it was prepped and ducted for a 2nd ac. When it was installed they said there was no ducting for the ac. Now, after reading the OP I'm not so sure. My questions are similar to the previous post; did you have to remove the entire ac or just the interior control unit portion? Once removed was the ductwork evident or did you have to remove additional piece parts to access them? I also had an ac installed that did not use a thermostat but wonder if that would be required if it was ducted in?

I am tempted to dig into it but it's still in warranty, and in fact, in the shop now for various fixes. I don't want to mess any of that up.
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 11:58 AM   #12
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Chad & Sourdough, the second unit is controlled by it's own thermostat on the bedroom wall. Without being tied to the ductwork, the bedroom air just blows too hard out of the grill vents and they are directed right on the thermostat. It runs for just a minute or two and then shuts off. It's a very poor design.

I did not have to remove the AC unit to access the ducts. If you remove the inside grill cover and look up into the air box you will see that the sides are made of foil. I just cut holes into the sides to explore and found the duct. I assumed I could always tape them back up if I failed to find the ducts. The ducts were only a couple of inches from the AC wall. See the pictures in the second post of this thread.

We spent 6 weeks in the trailer at our place in Florida in Oct and Nov and the AC worked perfectly. In the evening while watching TV we would just have the bedroom AC on and it provided adequate cooling to the living area while keeping the noise in the other end of the trailer. At night we would switch and turn the living AC on and the bedroom off to keep the noise at the opposite end. On a couple of days it was quite warm during the day and we needed both units on. With both of them running there was no problem keeping comfortable.

Other than the AC problems and poor customer service from Keystone we've been very happy with the trailer.

Good luck.
Dennis
wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 03:48 PM   #13
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 12,951
Dennis - thank you for your reply. I am going to investigate as you did but wait until my warranty expires in March. Thanks for a very helpful idea and doing the legwork to implement it.
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 04:18 PM   #14
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
Dennis - thank you for your reply. I am going to investigate as you did but wait until my warranty expires in March. Thanks for a very helpful idea and doing the legwork to implement it.
Sourdough, do you know if Keystone promotes the ducted racetrack AC system in their marketing material similar to this Laredo piece? http://www.keystonerv.com/media/8945...ster_apr14.pdf

If so, I would suspect that the duct is there. Also, you might look at your existing AC vents. Are they in two in-line rows from front to rear? If so, you might pull a vent cover off in the bedroom and fish a tape measure into the duct to see how far it extends toward the front. If it extends beyond your front AC unit you may be in luck.
wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 04:31 PM   #15
GmaPaTime
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Currituck, NC
Posts: 356
When we ordered our 5er this past summer, that is exactly what was told to us. Keystone does not install 2nd. Ac units, only at the dealer.
__________________
Steve & Amy
2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
Previously :
2015 Jayco 31UL MH
2015 Cougar X-Lite 29RLI
GmaPaTime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 05:12 PM   #16
Festus2
Site Team
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fraser Valley BC Canada
Posts: 7,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayfun View Post
Sourdough, do you know if Keystone promotes the ducted racetrack AC system in their marketing material similar to this Laredo piece? http://www.keystonerv.com/media/8945...ster_apr14.pdf

.
wayfun:

It seems as though the above link doesn't work. When clicked on, I get a message that "The page is no longer there" along with an error code.
__________________
2008 Cougar 5th Wheel 27RKS
2005 2500 GMC Duramax
Festus2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 05:29 PM   #17
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Festus2 View Post
wayfun:

It seems as though the above link doesn't work. When clicked on, I get a message that "The page is no longer there" along with an error code.
The first post in this thread has the link and it worked. Try this one:

http://www.keystonerv.com/media/8945...ster_apr14.pdf
wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2014, 05:39 PM   #18
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by GmaPaTime View Post
When we ordered our 5er this past summer, that is exactly what was told to us. Keystone does not install 2nd. Ac units, only at the dealer.
I ordered my Laredo with the 2nd AC option and I was told that it was factory installed.
wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 09:07 PM   #19
denverpilot
Senior Member
 
denverpilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 487
What model year did the "racetrack" marketing start?

Just curious if I should ask about this when having the 2nd AC installed in the 2014 Laredo or if it's a 2015 thing?
__________________
Pilot for fun, Computer geek for a living, and happy 5er owner who wants more time to go play in the camper!
denverpilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2014, 09:30 PM   #20
wayfun
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central KY
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverpilot View Post
What model year did the "racetrack" marketing start?

Just curious if I should ask about this when having the 2nd AC installed in the 2014 Laredo or if it's a 2015 thing?
I can't tell you when it started but it was there in the 2014 materials. The poster was in all new units that I looked at while shopping and was in my 2015 when I took delivery in August.
wayfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.