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Old 10-15-2013, 07:33 PM   #1
GACamper
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Question Complete Novice - Need Advice - Towing a '13/14 Sprinter 316BIK

Hello, my name is Doug and I'm new to this forum and TT's in general. I need some advice.

My family and I are seriously considering the purchase of either a (new) '13 or '14 Sprinter 311BHS or more ideally the 316BIK. Both can be had in our price range. Both would work for my family. Obviously the 316BIK is my preferred. Either one, we'll be purchasing the 3 bunks + trundle in the rear (we have 4 walking tax deductions - ages 5 - 13, 3 boys/1 girl (youngest).

My questions are less about the TT itself as much as the tow vehicle. I hope I'm asking this in the right sub-section. If not; Mods, please move accordingly?

Our TV is 2008, 5.7L-V8, Toyota Sequoia Limited 2x4. It's got a towing capacity of 10,000lbs. Knowing absolutely NOTHING about what I am doing in regards to towing/hauling (I can drive a trailer and back one up just fine, but weight/balancing one in reference to the TV is SUPREMELY over my head).

The max weight of either trailer is slightly over 11k lbs. This is over my vehicles max, but in all honesty, wouldn't it be a bit odd to pack the trailer to max weight? I'd assume with food, clothes, fresh water tank full, black and gray tanks 1/4 full, pots/pans, etc... stuffed in there, we should be somewhere around or just under my max tow-able weight.

My questions are:

1. What are the cons of towing close to max weight as specified by the manufacture?

2. Anyone else use a similar setup (my TV is dang near identical to the '08+ Tundra mechanically. It IS identical if you enclose the short-beded Tundra's bed, add some carpet and a 3rd row seat for 3)?

3. What are the pro/cons of adding the airbags to my suspension setup? Are they necessary?

3a. Is there any significant difference between bags/no bags?

4. Or is this all a mute point? Am I smoking crack thinking I can tow this trailer with my vehicle?

5. If I can tow, will I experience issues trying to get up and down mountain roads (think TN/Smoky Mountains most of the time). What about almost yearly trips to places like the Grand Canyon, Mt. Rushmore, Niagara Falls, Canada, Alaska, etc?

5a. I'm a bit concerned with the higher altitudes in CO and OR that we'll be sure to be trolling around in with this rolling house.

(now to really kick the hornets nest)

6. What sort of weight distribution/sway control and braking system would you all recommend I purchase for this trailer initially?

I've read a bit on the Equal-I-zer 10,000:1 setup with loads of rave reviews. Is this the best out there, or would you all recommend something different? I'm a HUGE proponent of spend upfront, get what you want out the gate, and spend what would have been spent on later "upgrades" on something that really matters (like a decent stabilizing system, generators, trinkets/toys, etc). - Go big, or go home :-).

6a. As far as trailer brake systems go, whats the best unit out-there?

Both of the above TT's have a brake for each wheel (4 wheel breaks). - I want as much automated adjusting as possible. I've looked into several different controllers, and they've got more options and features than I can shake a stick at. If possible, I want a set-n-forget system. After all this trailer is the only thing requiring a break controller that will be getting towed with our Sequoia.

I suspect I should be reasonably ok with towing either trailer for the majority of the East Coast as it's mostly level Interstate driving (less sections of TN, NC, and SC). But even there the interstates generally do not have very steep grades even in the mountains. However like I said, I'm not just ignorant into towing- I'm supremely STUPID ! I need your help!

Any assistance, broken down Barney-style, would be more than appreciated, and if any of you find yourselves in the Augusta, GA area, let me know! I've got loads of ice-cold beer with your name on it!



Doug S.
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:54 PM   #2
Ken / Claudia
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Why tow at max limits to the truck/suv when the safety of your family are most important, 2nd the safety of all others on the road. Why be pushed from the trailer when stoppng, swaying from one lane to another by passing vehicles or winds. Why go 35 up hills in a 55 zone. Why put your vehicle to its limits for engine, transmission temps from pulling at max. loads. Why not get the trailer you need for your family and match it with a truck that is only useing 50-75% of the max. it can do. It will last longer and handle the tow much safer. Go to a Toyota site and see what they pull with that vehicle. Could it be done yes, should it be done no. Last yes you can load a trailer to max. You go camping to enjoy life and all members of the family want to bring stuff, that stuff does add up every trip you likely will add more.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:00 PM   #3
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Sorry bud. My opinion is that any TT over 7000 lbs gvwr is 3/4 ton truck material. 7k trailer with 13% tongue weight of 900 plus lbs. will likely exceed gvwr of your tow vehicle once you add tongue , hitch, passengers, firewood, bikes, gear, etc. Do the math and you may agree. Safety first. Most dealers (truck or rv) will say "your truck can pull it no longer problem".
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:20 PM   #4
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If you don't mind going up hills (even over passes on the freeway) at 35 you will do just fine. We pulled a 25' trailer with your rig and it was slow going. We went all over the west with it but went up hills so slow... In your case, by the time you load the family into the truck, load all their gear, you will be so overweight, I shudder!
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:24 PM   #5
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I am not trying to beat you up, I ran out of time on the first reply. I had a pathfinder in 89 and got a 14 ft trailer. Tried it around local camping. Same year I took my family from PDX to LA on I5. It was the last time, I should have turned around and would have felt better but, it was a family vacation. I let my wife have that vehicle and got a older xcab 1/2 ton full size truck, than I could tow and do it at freeway speeds in safety. I have been learning and enjoying RVing since. Good Luck
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:30 PM   #6
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GACamper,
I can definitely understand your feeling and will try to be as constructive and positive as I can. I hope you already learned some basic things from stickies of this forum.
1. Toyota is first and only truck manufacturer which already agreed to participate in SAE J2807 towing tests and since they started doing this the tow ratings of their vehicles dropped. 10000 lb rating was assigned years before SAE, nobody knows what procedures and standards they used and what this rating really means.
2. Even if tow rating is established by J2807 procedure with utility trailer full of gravel, it has VERY LITTLE OR NOTHING to do with towing of a big TT due to the presence of front resistance and side sway forces from the trailer
3.Your payload capacity is 1350lb, with hitch weight in excess of 1000-1100 and big family you will be many hundreds of pounds over GVWR (I guess 500 lb +)
4.We all know that 110 inches of wheelbase allows 20 feet of trailer and then 4 inches are needed for each additional foot. How can a tiny ML tow 26 feet with less than 110 inches and have no problems? Many people don't understand it. The key is SHORT REAR OVERHANG. Mine is only 36 inches from rear axle to the tip of the hitch receiver vs. 58 inches of a typical pickup truck, so my vehicle is as stable as a pickup truck with 170-175 inches of wheelbase. I doubt that Sequoya will give you such advantage based on the pictures I've seen. In addition I use custom made Eaz-Lift hitch with very short tow bar, so the ball is essentially next to the bumper.
However, Sequoya is a very capable SUV, with lots of power, 6 speed transmission and independent rear suspension which is good for stability.
You definitely have options with it. This is the game plan.
1.You should forget about the Sprinter; your trailer should be the lightest possible with light hitch weight. Consider Passport 3220 BH with 7500 lb of GVWR and only 600 lb of dry hitch weight. It will give you same space and amenities.
2.You will have to travel light with maybe 1/3 of white tank, your stuff should be moderate in amount and well balanced between front and rear
3.You may try setup similar to mine; if some hitch shop in GA can make similar hitch head for you, consider yourself very lucky. The best step is probably to go straight to Hensley or Propride which eliminate sway completely.
Good luck!
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:34 PM   #7
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Doug S .
You've asked the same basic question in another thread in the New Member Welcome section so you may get answers spread between this section and the other.

First, I am not sure if there are any "pros" towing close to the max, at max or slightly over max. On the other hand, I can think of a number of reasons why a person should avoid doing that and I'm sure you don't need to be told the obvious. No, you probably won't load up your TT to the max but you'd be pushing the limits. You would be surprised how much stuff you will bring along for 4 kids! Never mind the adults! Why push the limits when you don't have to?

Secondly, air bags or other similar helpers will do nothing to increase your towing capacity. All they will do is either level out the TV and the TT, make the ride feel smoother or both.

Thirdly, you probably aren't smoking crack but I think you are mistaken if you think your Toyota will safely tow any of these TTs. We've talked about your short wheelbase in the other thread and there is nothing you can do that will lengthen it. A good hitch system properly hooked up will go a long ways to minimize sway but the short wheel base might nullify any gains made by a good hitch.

Fourth --- come out to BC where there are mountains - lots of them. Many have very steep, long grades. There aren't many flat spots to be found. It's all up and down out here. I realize you don't live here but I am trying to visualize you in your Toyota going up the Coquihalla. Yikes! Mountains at Niagara Falls? You must be kidding!. I think you get my drift about the Toyota in the mountains regardless of where they are located.

Finally, I suspect you might be trying to marry one of these TT to your Toyota. This would not be a marriage made in Heaven. To me, it would make more sense if you were to:
1) forget those TT's and look for something smaller and shorter; or,
2) forget the Toyota and look for something with a longer wheelbase- like a crew cab truck. I realize you are looking at 6 people - 2 adults and 4 kids and that the Toyota fits the bill for being able to accommodate all 6 fairly comfortably. And that seems to be the only redeeming feature of having and keeping the Toyota.

Some "newbies" have come on here and asked the same question as you. "Can my truck tow X". Some newbies ask but have already made up their mind and are looking for someone to say "yes" you can do it - no problem . Some take the advice, think about it and actually change their plans and buy something else.
The final decision is up to you.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:37 PM   #8
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Smile

Thanks for the reply, gentlemen!

I would like to be able to "do the math", but I don't know what math to do, or how. But thanks for the reply.

What sort of TV do I need for a trailer like this? I've got the same towing capacity as a full sized truck does. Are there any SUV's out there capable of towing this trailer? This crap is confusing!

I can't just get a Ford F-350. 1. Is I'm not made of money, and 2. It wont fit my family. I have a wife and 4 kids. I need something that can fit the family and actually tow a camper.

What is the max size trailer you fine folks would recommend, given my towing capacity? So I know how to better focus our search?

Doug
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:42 PM   #9
GACamper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Festus2 View Post
Doug S .
You've asked the same basic question in another thread in the New Member Welcome section so you may get answers spread between this section and the other.

First, I am not sure if there are any "pros" towing close to the max, at max or slightly over max. On the other hand, I can think of a number of reasons why a person should avoid doing that and I'm sure you don't need to be told the obvious. No, you probably won't load up your TT to the max but you'd be pushing the limits. You would be surprised how much stuff you will bring along for 4 kids! Never mind the adults! Why push the limits when you don't have to?

Secondly, air bags or other similar helpers will do nothing to increase your towing capacity. All they will do is either level out the TV and the TT, make the ride feel smoother or both.

Thirdly, you probably aren't smoking crack but I think you are mistaken if you think your Toyota will safely tow any of these TTs. We've talked about your short wheelbase in the other thread and there is nothing you can do that will lengthen it. A good hitch system properly hooked up will go a long ways to minimize sway but the short wheel base might nullify any gains made by a good hitch.

Fourth --- come out to BC where there are mountains - lots of them. Many have very steep, long grades. There aren't many flat spots to be found. It's all up and down out here. I realize you don't live here but I am trying to visualize you in your Toyota going up the Coquihalla. Yikes! Mountains at Niagara Falls? You must be kidding!. I think you get my drift about the Toyota in the mountains regardless of where they are located.

Finally, I suspect you might be trying to marry one of these TT to your Toyota. This would not be a marriage made in Heaven. To me, it would make more sense if you were to:
1) forget those TT's and look for something smaller and shorter; or,
2) forget the Toyota and look for something with a longer wheelbase- like a crew cab truck. I realize you are looking at 6 people - 2 adults and 4 kids and that the Toyota fits the bill for being able to accommodate all 6 fairly comfortably. And that seems to be the only redeeming feature of having and keeping the Toyota.

Some "newbies" have come on here and asked the same question as you. "Can my truck tow X". Some newbies ask but have already made up their mind and are looking for someone to say "yes" you can do it - no problem . Some take the advice, think about it and actually change their plans and buy something else.
The final decision is up to you.
Thanks for the detailed response! I appreciate your candor and effort writing that! Unlike most people I take advise well, so you are most appreciated! I'm disappointed that I can't tow what I want with my truck, but at the same time, it's all in a day's work. I wish there was an SUV large enough to carry my family and capable to towing this trailer at the same time. I'm wondering how they sell these things given the apparent lack of workable vehicles. :-)

I'll focus my search on something smaller. What is the max weight you would expect me being able to tow with my Sequoia? Again, I'm lost.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by RGene7001 View Post
GACamper,
I can definitely understand your feeling and will try to be as constructive and positive as I can. I hope you already learned some basic things from stickies of this forum.
1. Toyota is first and only truck manufacturer which already agreed to participate in SAE J2807 towing tests and since they started doing this the tow ratings of their vehicles dropped. 10000 lb rating was assigned years before SAE, nobody knows what procedures and standards they used and what this rating really means.
2. Even if tow rating is established by J2807 procedure with utility trailer full of gravel, it has VERY LITTLE OR NOTHING to do with towing of a big TT due to the presence of front resistance and side sway forces from the trailer
3.Your payload capacity is 1350lb, with hitch weight in excess of 1000-1100 and big family you will be many hundreds of pounds over GVWR (I guess 500 lb +)
4.We all know that 110 inches of wheelbase allows 20 feet of trailer and then 4 inches are needed for each additional foot. How can a tiny ML tow 26 feet with less than 110 inches and have no problems? Many people don't understand it. The key is SHORT REAR OVERHANG. Mine is only 36 inches from rear axle to the tip of the hitch receiver vs. 58 inches of a typical pickup truck, so my vehicle is as stable as a pickup truck with 170-175 inches of wheelbase. I doubt that Sequoya will give you such advantage based on the pictures I've seen. In addition I use custom made Eaz-Lift hitch with very short tow bar, so the ball is essentially next to the bumper.
However, Sequoya is a very capable SUV, with lots of power, 6 speed transmission and independent rear suspension which is good for stability.
You definitely have options with it. This is the game plan.
1.You should forget about the Sprinter; your trailer should be the lightest possible with light hitch weight. Consider Passport 3220 BH with 7500 lb of GVWR and only 600 lb of dry hitch weight. It will give you same space and amenities.
2.You will have to travel light with maybe 1/3 of white tank, your stuff should be moderate in amount and well balanced between front and rear
3.You may try setup similar to mine; if some hitch shop in GA can make similar hitch head for you, consider yourself very lucky. The best step is probably to go straight to Hensley or Propride which eliminate sway completely.
Good luck!
HOLY CRAP! That was an awesome reply! Thanks!! I'll look into that FOR SURE!!!! All your advise and attached picture was GREAT! I owe you a beer for sure! lol

** NOTE ** - For some reason every time my browser refreshes, I see another post that I didn't see when I was reading down this form and is why I've got replies to posts all over the place.... Man, I really HATE computers! :-)
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:18 PM   #11
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Okay..... Now I'm even more confused.... I really dislike being new to something this involved. Learning curves chap my a**!

I've found a couple trailers that are around the 7K lbs weight range that "could" work for my family and situation, BUT they are all in the longer size range (32'+). From one of the replies (above) I surmised that the length could stand to be of significant issue due to my wheel base length? (sorry to the replier, I'm not sure I understand the physics involved)... I'm lost as to why (yeah, I'm THAT dumb IRT this stuff). So I don't know what I should be looking for.

I haven't really seen anything in the 20' range that would easily work for the family. Not at dropping $25g's +/-. I just wish I could attach different ones to the butt-end of my truck and take them for a spin to see how they handled! But that's not possible I know. *errrrr*

So.... Is longer lengths a BIG deal, or is it something that is doable but not recommended? Is it something that can cause me to get into an accident at highway speeds (55 to 60MPH)? Or will I just have to deal with big rigs blowing me all over the place? This is as long as the gross weight (both TT and hitch) are within specs of my TV?

Im curious because I've seen MASSIVE 5th wheels and trailers being pulled by F-250's and the like where I know the setup is well over what the truck is designed to handle. As well as larger TT's being pulled by SUV's substantially smaller than mine chucking along the interstate seeming to handle the road just fine. But then again, I wasn't the one driving so it could be an utter nightmare for those folks, and I just not know it :-)

In all your opinions, whats the longest trailer I should be looking at and whats the highest weight (I think the weight question is mainly answered, but wanted to ask none the less just to be sure)?

Thanks for your help, and THANK YOU for your patience with me as I try to get all this info crammed into my feeble mind (and processed)!

Doug
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:50 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by GACamper View Post
Thanks for the reply, gentlemen!

I would like to be able to "do the math", but I don't know what math to do, or how. But thanks for the reply.

What sort of TV do I need for a trailer like this? I've got the same towing capacity as a full sized truck does. Are there any SUV's out there capable of towing this trailer? This crap is confusing!

I can't just get a Ford F-350. 1. Is I'm not made of money, and 2. It wont fit my family. I have a wife and 4 kids. I need something that can fit the family and actually tow a camper.

What is the max size trailer you fine folks would recommend, given my towing capacity? So I know how to better focus our search?

Doug
The only suv that I know of that I would tow that long of a trailer with would be an excursion. It has the wheel base and the space you need for your family. I am however unsure of the capacities on this particular vehicle. Even a 2500 suburban might fit the bill too. The thing with the Ford excursion is they can be hard to come by for a decent price and condition considering it is no longer made and the diesel variant people tend to ask quite a bit of coin for them. The gas ones can be cheaper but I have heard of them only getting 7-8 mpg towing and not much better driving unloaded.

Again not sure on the capacities for towing with these are but they do have the wheel base (especially the excursion) to do so.
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:08 AM   #13
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Doug, Think about it this way. Yeah most anything will pull a Travel Trailer but the big issue is will that Tow Vehicle be able to control the travel trailer if a situation were to suddenly arise. Sudden braking, swerving to avoid an accident, tire blow out Ect....With your Travel Trailer exceeding your Tow vehicles max you will be out of control.

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Old 10-16-2013, 03:22 AM   #14
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Been towing rv's for 40 yrs. My advise to you, GO WITH a 3/4 ton tv minimum. You will be close to the red line on safety of your family and other travelers if you go with your present tv. Forget all the other questions you asked and get the most inportant things taken care of first. Make mine sangria.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:37 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by GACamper View Post
I wish there was an SUV large enough to carry my family and capable to towing this trailer at the same time.
We have a 2012 Yukon XL 2500 for the 6 of us. Tows our 9,000# Laredo perfectly.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:49 AM   #16
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I had a 2011 Tundra RCSB and was towing a TT that was 30' (5' shorter that the 311 BHS) and only weighed 7800 lbs fully loaded going down the road. The Tundra did a great job pulling this TT but I would not have wanted anything much bigger/heavier. Anything more than about 8K lbs and the motor really starts to struggle in the hills and the weight of the trailer starts pushing that short wheel base around. IMHO I would be looking for something a little lighter and about 30' max. There are some really nice TT that would work much better behind your truck and would be a lot more fun to tow.

As far as hitches, I had a Blue-Ox Sway Pro. Loved it.
I had Air Bags, Didn't need them for towing.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:16 AM   #17
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GACamper,

To answer our question n any SUV's that coudl possibly tow the TT's you mentioned.

Yes there area couple of SUV's I could recommend. Ford Excursion. If you get one (all will be used as Ford stopped production after 2005 MY) get one wiht a diseil engine.

GM, Surburban / Yukon IF it is a 2500 series. That makes it a 3/4 vehicle. Only option here are gas engines.

That is the list. If you look at my signature line, you'll see I tow with an Excursion and tow a 36' TT. Not to say my F250 doesn;t do it better, as it really does but.. it works well if properly hitched and the laod is properly distributed.

My .02 cetns worth.

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Old 10-16-2013, 07:26 AM   #18
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One more set of thoughts on al this.

I used to won a Sportsman 27' TT which had a GVW of 8000 lbs. I towsed this with a 99 Expedition. DId it work, yes. Towed from Chicago area to Washington coast, down thorugh Oregon, up to Yellowstone and back to home. No issues.

A few months later, both behicles were totaled in an accident when the truck and trailer rolled over. Too much weight to handle when you are not fully awake / alert. I had my family on board (wife and 5 kids). We all walked away mostly un-hurt (a few scratches). I thank God daily for his mercy on that one.

Since then, I tow with TV's which can handle the weight and length of TT's much better than the Expedition did. I love my Excursion (214000 miles and going strong) but, if the F3500 were running, I'd tow with that over the Excursion. Simply put, more stale and tail doesn;t try to wag to dog.

Short wheel base behicles and long TT's make a real dangerous combination.

JMHO.

Mike
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:27 AM   #19
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my trailers shipping weight is 6500. I owned a brand new 2013 sierra half ton (stock) and a 2004 tahoe w/ a 6 inch lift with E load range 35x1250x18s regeared 4.10s

I hate towing with the new truck lol idk why i think it has some thing to do with the passenger rated tires 20s.

The tahoe tows straight, does great on hills passing. i have to keep an eye on the speed. and backing up is a one time deal in my tight driveway
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:37 PM   #20
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Thanks Guys! Everyone's input is SUPREMELY appreciated! It appears I've got to look into trading out my Sequoia! :-( (SUCKS because I simply ADORE & LOVE that truck!).

I've been looking at various campers, and I sincerely can't find much that will work for our particular family's needs and desires (very comfortably) that is inside the handling limitations of my Sequoia. The last thing I want to do is total out my truck and camper (possibly my family) if I goof up while driving the sucker a little tired (long road hauls tend to zone drivers out and I don't want a SNAFU going FUBAR with my DW and tax deductions in the rear - I would never be able to live with myself if I ended up hurting one of my beloveds - screw the truck and camper. ).

Given this TT is such a HUGE expense, and it's a one-n-done type deal for us, it's better we "go big or go home". Get what we know we need that has most (if not all) of what we want, right off the bat, saving the "regrets" for later. Besides, we're going to be long-hauling this beast quite a bit every summer, and shot-hauling it at least once a month. Cramming my chitlins into tight confined spaces, everyone in everyone's nose, is a good recipe for Mommy and Daddy going bat-sh** over the deep end insane! So given this, we'll be needing to think about "upgrading" our TV into something capable of handling the trailer.

We borrowed a friends 20' +/- TT (hybrid) from Pensacola, FL to Walt Disney two summers ago, and we learned for the sake of our kids health and our sanity, we needed more room. However that TT proved to us that we NEEDED one of our own! :-) Without a WDH, our Sequoia LOVED that sucker behind it. Took a bit getting used to watching my rear-view for approaching big-rigs so I knew "the suck" was coming as not to be surprised by it. But all-in-all we all LOVED the convenience and fun that camper provided - but it was SMALL for our family!

As some of your suggestions have referenced, I was already looking into a '05 Ford 6.0L (diesel) Excursion 4x4. I'll take a look at the 2500 Suburban as well. However, I'm pretty sure a diesel will be more adept at pulling the monster camper up and down the western mountain passes with more efficiency than a gas engine will. Again, it's that "go big or go home/if you do it, do it right" ideology :-) - And I don't want to fuss with having a tuner change out gear ratios if I don't have too as gas engines need different ratios than diesel pushers do for max efficiency (right?).

Looking around, it appears that all the 6.0L's are going for a pretty penny. It's actually a good thing as the trucks are holding their resale value, and for American made, that's not something to shake a stick at. Brief research online shows that maintenance is on the pricy side, but easy to do and not all that costly when you really think about it. What's $150 every 7k miles or $500 ever 15k when you get the benefit of so much utility at your fingertips, really?

The good thing is I should be able to find an Excursion, circa 2005, with ~100k miles on the clock for a 1:1 trade for my Sequoia. Possibly a VERY small loan on top of the trade (but I doubt it as my Sequoia is worth a few g's more than the Excursions are selling for and has a good bit higher resale value too).

So! If I swap TV's with an '05 Excursion, add in a Hensley or Propride weight distributing hitch to the sucker, and possibly airbags to the rear suspension along with the trailer brake module, I should be good to go for safely hauling my most precious while pulling the monstrous 35.8' Sprinter 316BIK behind it's tail end, right? Given a safe 60-65MPH HWY speed? With the potential of the diesel, I should also be good over most mountains, right (albeit maybe a bit on the slow 35MPH up/down side)?

What's the difference between the Hensley, Propride, and Equal-I-zer hitch setups?

The only negatives of this trade (I can see right now) is the slightly higher fuel price of Diesel over Mogas, and the (slightly) higher routine maintenance costs? Any other drawbacks? I've heard a lot about the issues with Ford's 6.0L V-8, but I've also heard equal about how solid the engine is. Plus knowing I can get 1/2mil miles out the sucker is a HUGE + too...

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks again for all your help!!!!

Doug
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