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11-14-2019, 07:27 AM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandy Springs
Posts: 44
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Another Converter Problem
Hi All - just read the previous post, and have a couple of questions about the DC operation in general. I have a 2015 Hideout 175LHS used mostly for hunt camp, so it is parked in the boonies September- March. I recently installed a 400w solar system with 200ah LiFePo battery bank, and an inverter to run the AC circuits mostly for my CPAP machine at night. The inverter should be charging the house battery by operating the converter side of the stock panel the same way the generator should.
The only modification done to the stock electrical system is an automatic transfer switch between the shore power cable and panel that will power the stock electrical panel either from the inverter or my generator.
I also had my heater not work due to low house battery voltage not being sufficient to initiate spark. This was while the generator was running! Not only was it not charging the house battery, or charging it too slowly, the AC was not powering the DC circuits.
Is this normal operation? Why wouldn't shore power/generator be powering the DC side?
Thanks for any help!
Steve
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11-14-2019, 07:45 AM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,758
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My first question would has it ever worked?
Next question would be who installed the solar/Lifepro system and why a separate "house" battery? Converting the dc voltage to ac voltage so that you can then charge a dc battery is terribly inefficient.
I can think of several possibilities but would need more info as to how/why the system is connected to make an attempt at postulating what the issue may be.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-14-2019, 07:48 AM
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#3
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,351
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Routing of wires is extremely important when your removing the factory converter and installing an inverter/converter.
Do you know how it’s all wired up?
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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11-14-2019, 08:01 AM
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#4
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckster57
Routing of wires is extremely important when your removing the factory converter and installing an inverter/converter.
Do you know how it’s all wired up?
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"The inverter should be charging the house battery by operating the converter side of the stock panel the same way the generator should."
Looks like he didn't replace the stock converter.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-14-2019, 08:57 AM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandy Springs
Posts: 44
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Hi -
I installed the system. The only thing different than stock is the Auto Transfer Switch that sources AC from either shore/generator or the 2000w inverter.
I have the WFCO power panel, which according to the manual has 3 converter modes - 1) nominal battery charge, power to appliances. 2) Fast charge, power to appliances. 3) storage trickle charge.
With the generator running, the house battery voltage dropped so low that the furnace igniter wouldn't spark, and the lights were super dim. So something seems to be wrong with the stock WFCO converter.
I did not replace the stock converter. I have a separate converter, also connected to the ATS, that charges the solar batteries when the generator is running. They top off in less than 30 minutes.
Did it ever work: I always ran the generator at night, since that was the only way to get AC power. It has always seemed to charge slowly; once I had to run the generator non stop for 36 hours to get the battery to indicate full.
I know it is not efficient to use the solar bank/inverter to charge a 12 volt marine deep cycle battery, but using the inverter for 12 hours only drops the solar bank by 10% or so, which then goes back to 100% with solar charging during the day. So charging the 12v house battery should be a byproduct of 110v AC applied to the panel?
So if there is AC voltage supplied to the panel, why would the DC circuits not be powered? Taking the house battery out of the question for a moment, shouldn't everything DC be powered if I am running the generator OR the inverter?
I have the battery at home, now a bit over 50% after charging since yesterday afternoon. Using a Noco Genius smart charger which I think is low amperage.
When I get down there again, I will measure the voltage at the house battery terminals while the a) inverter is on then b) the generator is running.
Thanks for thoughts and suggestions!
Steve
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11-14-2019, 09:42 AM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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My first thought is the reverse polarity fuses are blown. They are the two "red fuses" just to the left of your DC fuse panel on the face of the WFCO power center.
I'd first check them with an ohmmeter, then disconnect the house battery cables and check the voltage "at the cable terminals" for voltage. With the generator running, voltage "at the cables" should be 13.4 VDC. If it's not, then leave the cables disconnected (house battery) and check the voltage at the DC connections on the power distribution panel. It should be 13.4 VDC. If you have voltage "at the panel" and not "at the cable ends" you have a wiring problem in the trailer. If you have 13.4VDC at both points then you have a house battery problem.
I'm surprised that with a NOCO maintainer after 16-18 hours, you only have 50% charge on a lead acid battery. Even at 2-4 amp flow, the battery should be more charged than 50%. I'd have the battery "load tested" at an auto parts store. My guess is you've got a dead cell there.
Finding a bad battery doesn't negate the first troubleshooting. If you've got a problem with the converter output or wiring, it could cause the battery failure, so both checking the battery and troubleshooting/confirming the converter operation are warranted.
Given what you've provided, I'd suspect a bad battery and a blown reverse polarity fuse.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-14-2019, 10:21 AM
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#7
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,758
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John's on the right track. When you were doing your wiring all you have to do is reverse the battery connection or just touch the positive to the frame for a brief moment to blow the reverse polarity fuses.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
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11-14-2019, 11:04 AM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandy Springs
Posts: 44
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Thanks guys - the reverse polarity fuse is not blown; when it is nothing DC works when not connected to generator or shore power. (My model WCFO has the fuses on the right side of the panel). I had that issue when I first bought the rig
I will take the battery to a Battery Plus store where I bought it, they should be able to test it. On my way there, be back in an hour or so.
BTW, really appreciate the help!
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11-14-2019, 11:46 AM
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#9
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Site Team
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Modesto
Posts: 20,351
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Routing of wires is extremely important when your removing the factory converter and installing an inverter/converter.
Do you know how it’s all wired up?
__________________
2012 Copper Canyon 273FWRET being towed by a 1994 Ford F350 CC,LB,Dually diesel.
Airlift 5000 bags, Prodigy brake control, 5 gauges on the pillar.Used to tow a '97 Jayco 323RKS.
Now an RVIA registered tech. Retired from Law enforcement in 2008 after 25+ yrs.
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11-14-2019, 12:20 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 708
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The WFCO converters are sensitive to miswired active and neutral. I connected my trailer to a friend's extension lead that he wired up wrong and it took out my converter. If you plug into shore power you should see over 13V at the battery terminals. If not, your converter isn't working, possibly blown.
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11-14-2019, 12:33 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandy Springs
Posts: 44
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Hi Chuckster - yes, I know how it is wired up. I did not remove the factory converter, nor change anything at all on the WCFO panel. As stated, the only difference is that there is an Automatic Transfer Switch between the shore power cable and the 30 amp 120v main breaker that feeds the panel. Please let me know if you have specific questions about the wiring?
The wiring diagram for the transfer switch is attached. No changes to panel.
Solar panels feed Epever solar charge controller to 2 Renogy 100ah LiFePO batteries. Batteries feed GoWise PS1003 Inverter, which feeds panel through ATS when shore power not connected (if switched on).
Shore power feeds panel and ProgDyn PD9130LV converter charger for charging solar panels.
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11-14-2019, 12:36 PM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandy Springs
Posts: 44
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Thanks Scott - I will check voltages when I get back down there. WFCO manual says Absorption Mode 13.6 volts, Bulk mode 14.4 volts, and float mode 13.2v
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11-14-2019, 12:39 PM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandy Springs
Posts: 44
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John, just back from the Battery Plus store - battery tests fine. Also bought a 7.2A Noco Genius charger which should speed things up over the 1.1A smaller model that was charging it.
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11-14-2019, 03:28 PM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGatl
Thanks Scott - I will check voltages when I get back down there. WFCO manual says Absorption Mode 13.6 volts, Bulk mode 14.4 volts, and float mode 13.2v
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGatl
John, just back from the Battery Plus store - battery tests fine. Also bought a 7.2A Noco Genius charger which should speed things up over the 1.1A smaller model that was charging it.
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I'm very interested to see what the voltage at the battery terminals is (with the battery not in the circuit)... Based on your report that the battery tests good, the only other reasons for the converter/charger not to provide power is a wiring issue or a bad converter. Keep us posted as your troubleshooting progresses.
__________________
John
2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
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11-27-2019, 05:28 PM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Sandy Springs
Posts: 44
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OK, so just back from the hunt camp since Friday... With the generator running, the voltage on the battery cables was approx 3 volts. Installed the 100% charged battery, pulled and checked all fuses (again). Cycled all breakers on the AC side. As I mentioned from the manual, supposed to be Absorption Mode 13.6 volts, Bulk mode 14.4 volts, and float mode 13.2v. The manual also mentioned that the low volt condition could be caused by overload and the converter shutting down, and that removing the overload or cycling the main breaker would reset it. So it did.
After the reset, the voltage was reading 13.4 at the terminals, so I think I am good to go. The house battery now charges with either the solar inverter supplying 110v AC, or from the generator. I am going to leave the house battery disconnected next time I am down there, and see how just powering everything from the solar side works.
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