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Old 01-03-2019, 01:28 PM   #1
W5WI
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Using Honda EU 3000IC for electric

Happy New Year Everyone!

My son in law and I were powering up my Honda Generator and we were discussing how it would do to provide electricity to my 5'er. As many of you know the generator has two 120v 20A receptacles and one 23.3A receptacle. From what I can determine from looking at the wiring diagram the 23.3A is also a 120v receptacle.

Has anyone used this generator with their 5'er? If so, will it also power one A/C in the summer months?

Thanks,

dale
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:42 PM   #2
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If your A/C is 13,500 btu model, you'll need around 2750 watts to start it up. If it's 15,000 btu model you'll need closer to 3500 watts. Our Dometic 3,000 generator will start our 13,500 Coleman A/C. I think the Honda is a better unit but likely would not start the 15k A/C system.
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:23 PM   #3
Laredo Tugger
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My Champion 3400 (3100 running) watt inverter generator calculates (using 12 amps/volts per watt) to 28.3 amps but it has a 30 amp and two 15 amp outlets?
Not being an electrician, my math shows I am 21.7 amps short to run my 5er.
I know there is an explanation.
Thanks
RMc
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:39 PM   #4
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According to Dometic, the recommendations for generator size for their 13,500 BTU RV air conditioners is 3.5kw for 1 A/C and 5.0kw for 2 A/C.

You can download the manual/spec sheets here: http://www.intechtrailers.com/images...nit-manual.pdf

There are several aftermarket "fixes" for using smaller generators, but they are, in the opinion of many, not the "best idea".....
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Old 01-03-2019, 02:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laredo Tugger View Post
My Champion 3400 (3100 running) watt inverter generator calculates (using 12 amps/volts per watt) to 28.3 amps but it has a 30 amp and two 15 amp outlets?
Not being an electrician, my math shows I am 21.7 amps short to run my 5er.
I know there is an explanation.
Thanks
RMc
I think (if I'm reading your comment correctly) that you're adding the output of all your available outlets and asking why the outlet rating is greater than the available generator output. Or, the generator is rated at 28.3 amps, but I have a 30 amp and two 15 amp outlets, that adds up to 60 amps.....

Almost all power systems have more outlets (for convenience and to prevent running extension cords everywhere) than the available power. Theory is that all the outlets won't ever be used simultaneously. Think about your home: it likely has a 200 amp input wiring and input breaker. You've probably got 40+ 15 amp duplex outlets wired throughout the building, all connected to that 200 amp source. Added up, 40 x 15 = 600 amps, and when you consider every outlet has 2 plugs, that's 1,200 amps of "potential use"... Just as you'll never be expected to use the maximum at every outlet in your home, the generator is provided with multiple outlet choices, more for convenience than to provide a means to connect and use the maximum rating for all the outlets combined...

If that wasn't your comment, I guess I missed what you're asking....
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Old 01-03-2019, 04:22 PM   #6
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We regularly can run one of our 15K or 13.5K A/C's with our two Honda 2000 generators paralleled and the trailer connected to the 30 amp outlet on the Companion model. I am pretty sure you will be able to run one of your A/C's with this generator, as long as the continuous load does not exceed 2800 watts, and this you will find on the spec sheet for your A/C's. You will not be able to run anything else in the rig, except for maybe some lighting and a TV. You will definitely need to run the water heater and fridge on gas only mode, and the microwave, and anything else that draws a lot of current will not work while the A/C is running. You will also need to have the ECO switch turned off so the generator is running at full speed when using the A/C. 23.3 amps is 2800 watts, and so even though you have a 30 amp outlet, Honda shows the 23.3 amps as the max that the outlet can handle, continuous.
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:09 PM   #7
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I knew if I was patient JRTJH would come through with a good answer (as always). Exactly the explanation I was looking for. Thanks.
Like bobbecky, if I run the AC (one 15K not both) with the generator it will be stand alone (except for maybe the curling iron, blow dryer or television one at a time) and no microwave simultaneously. Also my refrigerator and WH will be on propane.
RMc
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Old 01-03-2019, 05:17 PM   #8
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You can also count on the WFCO converter/charger "claiming" +/- 5-8 amps depending on the battery charge condition.... Most people do take into consideration the water heater, refrigerator, microwave and any "plug-ins" like a blow dryer, curling iron, coffee pot, ice maker, heater, fireplace, etc, but most completely forget that the converter/charger will automatically come on as soon as you plug the power cord into the generator or shore power connection....

That said, even with the converter/charger, you should be OK with the single A/C provided it's not short cycling and there's not much else "robbing power"....
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:02 AM   #9
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Thanks guys! I appreciate your answers.

I most likely will only be running one A/C and maybe the TV. All the lights in the 5'er are 12v and I changed over to all LED bulbs for less draw.

dale
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W5WI View Post
Thanks guys! I appreciate your answers.

I most likely will only be running one A/C and maybe the TV. All the lights in the 5'er are 12v and I changed over to all LED bulbs for less draw.

dale
You shouldn't have any problems doing it that way, but remember: As soon as you turn on one 12 VDC light, you "trigger" the WFCO converter to energize the "bulk charge mode" and increase the 120VAC demand by that appliance. While the 12VDC and the 120VAC systems are "separate" they do "interact through the converter" which changes AC to DC to run those lights and when doing that, it puts a "load/demand" on the generator to operate the converter/charger.
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:29 PM   #11
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Quote JRTJH:
"You shouldn't have any problems doing it that way, but remember: As soon as you turn on one 12 VDC light, you "trigger" the WFCO converter to energize the "bulk charge mode" and increase the 120VAC demand by that appliance. While the 12VDC and the 120VAC systems are "separate" they do "interact through the converter" which changes AC to DC to run those lights and when doing that, it puts a "load/demand" on the generator to operate the converter/charger"

Do you ever foresee the day where RV manufactures will put in a AC (Air Conditioner)/Battery direct connection exclusively for generator operations?
Thus bypassing the converter,running the AC (since fridge and WH are on propane) and charging the battery direct in order to run the lights as well as the fridge and water heater igniters (also 12V),I think? Or is this not feasible?
RMc
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:14 PM   #12
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Essentially, that's exactly what you currently have: The 120 VAC comes into the trailer power center where it powers all the 120 VAC outlets and appliances as well as the converter/charger which powers all the 12 VDC equipment as well as charges the battery. It really wouldn't make any difference in "watts used" to draw from the converter/charger or to draw from the battery (which is supplied by the converter/charger. Essentially, all you'd be doing is changing the "take off point" for your 12 VDC systems from the fuse panel to the battery. Realistically, power would go from the battery to the fuse panel rather than from the converter to the fuse panel. You'd still be using the same watts to power the 3 watt LED light or the 145 watt television. Probably, I haven't done the calculations on line loss/recharge energy (in vs out) at the battery, and I'd suspect that it would be "less efficient" to charge the battery and run all 12 VDC circuits through the battery rather than just running them from the converter (before the charger)....

As for the factories making such a change? Probably not. The small number of customers that might want such an option probably would not work out from a profit standpoint with the cost of retooling, rewiring, and supporting both systems for the small population that would want such a system. So, chances are you'll never see it as OEM.


You can, however, so the same thing by turning off the converter circuit breaker and connecting a "stand alone battery charger" on the battery terminals. If you consider doing that, remember that with a 10 amp battery charger, if you turn on more than 10 amps (120 watts) of lights, you'll be discharging (not charging) your battery.... You could wind up with a "negative balance" after running your generator all day while the kids watch TV.... Your WFCO converter/charger puts out 55 amps. That's 5.5 times more than the 10 amp "stand alone charger"......
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:29 PM   #13
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I have a Honda 3000. Really nice unit, very quiet. I can run my front AC (13500), no problem. But, if you have a residential fridge, your out of luck.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:35 AM   #14
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Essentially you will operate a 50 amp unit with a 30 amp service. It it were me, I'd turn the breakers (120 vac) off to the second ac unit, water heater, fridge, etc. After identifying which breakers to turn off a dot of fingernail polish or silver marker will make identification easy next time. Doing this would keep the unknowing person from turning on the second ac unit or pushing a button on the fridge and causing an issue.
If you don't have an EMS to protect your electrical system I'd urge you to invest in one. JMHO, YMMV
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Old 01-07-2019, 06:22 AM   #15
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Thanks JRTJH and flybouy. I was just throwing out an idea that might of worked, guess not. Sounds like the best action is no action and to just let the existing system do it's job.
One AC on the generator and the fridge and WH on on propane. The generator will have some juice left over for some other things but in excess. That works for me if I should need it.
Thanks
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Old 01-07-2019, 06:35 AM   #16
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Doing the math on generators, a 3400 watt peak/3100 watt continuous generator weighs in about 130pounds (give or take) and provides 25.83 amps of continuous 120 VAC.

Two 2000 watt peak/1600 watt continuous generators provide the versatility of using only one if air conditioning is not needed or two if it is. When coupled, they provide 100 watts MORE power than the single larger generator. Each will provide 13.3 amps at 120 VAC for a total of 26.6 amps when coupled. There's not a lot of difference between 25.8 and 26.6, but the versatility of two smaller units provides for some operation cost savings when only one generator is needed, makes it easier to get them in and out of storage in the bed of the truck, provides "uninterrupted" power to the trailer while one generator is being serviced and produces "less noise" when not at full power (when only one is used). There are some draw backs as well. Two engines to service, any time you have "more units" you have the potential for "more breakdowns". As for cost, depending on where you buy, what you buy and whether you can find the generators on sale, often the two smaller units can be purchased at significantly less than the larger, single unit.

Looking at the comment of "leftover juice": "Leftover juice" isn't really "left over" so much as it's "breathing room" for the generator to not be operating at peak demand 100% of the time. That's a "safety vent" to allow the generator to operate "a tad bit cooler" and with "a tad bit less grunt"... IMHO, that makes for a longer life.... ALWAYS REMEMBER TO RUN YOUR GENERATOR AT NO LOAD for a couple of minutes before use and for about 5 minutes after use. NEVER just turn off a generator when at full load, that's a sure way to destroy (melt) the insulation on the output windings of the alternator/generator (depending on which style generator you have)....

Either system will work to provide power, it really depends on how you plan to use them as to which is the better option for any person's particular situation.
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:12 PM   #17
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I have the Honda 2000 companion and it runs my 2017 Eagle 291rsts 15k AC as long as nothing else is on like microwave or converter. Although it will not run my kids AC in their RV’s.
Just depends if there is a soft start installed in your AC. Most of the newer ones do.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:17 PM   #18
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I have the Honda 2000 companion and it runs my 2017 Eagle 291rsts 15k AC as long as nothing else is on like microwave or converter. Although it will not run my kids AC in their RV’s.
Just depends if there is a soft start installed in your AC. Most of the newer ones do.


Ok, how can we tell if our factory 15K ac has a soft start installed? A friend that also has a 2019 had to have one installed.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:22 AM   #19
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Good question Tbos.
I also would like to know the answer to that one. The guy's in the know on here are pretty good about getting timely answers posted.
RMc
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:33 AM   #20
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This is the Dometic hard start kit you need for your AC...

https://www.ebay.com/p/Dometic-33107...Kit/1250388625

Best price I’ve found. Neither my 15K or 13.5K ACs had this installed from factory on my 2014...Both now have this kit installed..

There are other options out there like the Micro Air soft start but $ wise this was cost effective, minimal install time, and they work well with my two Honda 2000s in parallel.

Once the AC has started for the first time I can switch both Honda’s to eco mode and cycling of compressor is not an issue for the generators. Way less starting load.

I’ve been running this setup for five seasons now with zero issues.
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