Grey to Black Transfer Pump * Genius or Crazy

[fjr vfr]

Sorry about the bowels...I've never claimed to be able to spell. lol
BTW, I think you are way over thinking this, making a pile of poop out of some dish water. You need to just throw the dish water out and conserve your usage and all will be good. I subscribe to the K.I.S.S. principle...Keep it Simple Stupid.
Both my grey and black tank are 40 gal and have the same connection at the end. Both tanks are identical and have identical size valves. Pretty common set up. My previous trailer had two 30 gal tanks that were the same and connected to the same outlet.
Someone earlier in the thread also suggested a tote. If you have the room bring one.

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

Install a Valterra twist on valve on the discharge fitting and then open both the grey and black drain valves with the twist on valve closed and the tanks should balance levels to each other.

That is exactly what we do all the time in our Alpine 3650RL. I added a valve to the dump fitting on our rig. The kitchen gray tank is mounted higher than the black tank so when our kitchen tank is getting full, we make sure the added dump valve is closed and open the black tank valve, wait about 2 seconds and then open the kitchen gray tank valve to add that gray water to the black tank. Works perfectly every time and we do not have to add extra water to the black tank when it is time to dump it. We too use a plastic tote in the kitchen sink to wash and rinse and then dump that water down the toilet. We still have to add some hose water through the tank flush line if we want to bring the tank up to the full sensor.

[notanlines]

John (VJR), your "First we use paper plates, (not plastic) and paper bowels. When we do need to wash out dishes we use paper towels and wipe them mostly clean so as to use little water to finish the job. We also use a bowel for rinsing out dishes and silverware" was certainly good for today's laugh. Just remember that we are laughing WITH you not AT you.

The regulars here will remember a couple years ago when a cricket found it's way up the black tank rinse pex line (I left the screen off) and caused a small flood in the bathroom by getting it's sorry butt stuck in the anti-siphon fitting.
That was a learning session for me.

I would risk smuggling buckets of grey water out into the woods long, long before I'd allow black water in the grey water tank. When we run the grey water rinse I can assure you things are bad enough in there without adding the black water also.

[fjr vfr]

Yes and we also have a screen in the sink drain You might be surprised how much food particles it catches We turn it over into the trash several times a day Keeps a ton of stuff out of the grey tank We also have one in the bathroom sink which catches lots of hair and soap scum It’s a little more work but Makes my grey tank water look clean and not smelly
And I still empty my bowels when needed lol

[HDroadglide]

When dry camping I use my out side shower to wash myself and any pans I use. This way I don't fill my tanks.

[jvbutter01]

Originally Posted by Gkri

We use a plastic tub in the sink for dishwashing and dump that into the black tank to conserve space in the grey tank. As a bonus, the dish soap helps keep the black tank clean.

Originally Posted by fjr vfr

Yes and we also have a screen in the sink drain You might be surprised how much food particles it catches

same here for both...



to the OP, Im sure the black and grey tank sizing is matched for capacity of the water supply or just reduce inventory of supplies for the build.

[Mikelff]

Whether I’m boondocking or not, but especially when I’m boondocking, I make sure to use biodegrade able soaps. Everything from dish soap to shower soap and shampoo. I have good filters in my galley sink and shower. I also use Unique brand micro biological tank treatment (for black tank and grey tanks) that completely breaks down any food particles that may get past my filter, which would almost have to be microscopic. When I dump grey water on the ground there is NO residual odors from food particles. The biodegradable soaps are actually good for the soil by loosening hard soils and further degrade naturally in the soil with no harm to the environment. I do check my grey water before I dump it all on the ground. If you take the proper precautions in the first place IMO, you don’t need to worry about putting grey water into the black tank. I also have a tank drain hose that I only use for grey water when I’m boondocking. Never used with a black tank. Use a good food filter in your galley sink and the Unique brand tank treatment in your grey and black tank and you should have no issues.

[Dennydj2]

There are several replies to this thread with suggestions and opinions. My thought, there are both black and grey tanks for good reason. I don’t believe I want any thing from my black tank in either of my grey tanks. Reasons…….solids moving into the grey tanks along with possible odor. I don’t want to create problems.

[WDPatterson]

Originally Posted by bobbecky

Install a Valterra twist on valve on the discharge fitting and then open both the grey and black drain valves with the twist on valve closed and the tanks should balance levels to each other.

The problem is, when you "balance" the tanks, you end up with black water in your gray tank. Not a good solution.

The original post suggests using a transfer pump with a one-way valve, otherwise known as a check valve, to make sure that black water does not end up in the gray tank. That is a much better solution.

[WDPatterson]

My wife and I are permanently off grid. We have run a 3-in pipe from our sewage Outlet about 30 ft back to a set of totes which are mounted on a trailer. Our black and gray tanks come out the same discharge pipe, down that 3-in pipe, and into those totes. The black tank gets emptied first, a little bit of the gray tank is used to rinse the line. After that, the rest of the gray tank is emptied out onto the ground. Gray water is good for the environment. Blackwater is not. Blackwater goes in the blue tanks to be hauled away. Once you have a septic tank, none of that really matters. But, it's easier to deal with if you just let your gray water go out and feed nature. Your grass will enjoy it, your garden will enjoy it, and you'll have less problem with filling your sewage tank.

[MattE303]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

As for using a "hose washer with a screen" that may stop "chunks" but it won't stop grease or detergents which will destroy the diaphragm in the anti-siphon valve.

There are TWO (not one) connection to the black tank. One, as you indicate, is the toilet. The other is the black tank flush system. It has an "anti-siphon valve" (not a one way valve) to prevent black tank contents from being "siphoned into the community fresh water system". The LOCATION of that anti-siphon valve (the one I discussed) is in the black tank flush line, which in almost all Keystone trailers, is under the vanity. Check your vanity, when you open the door, count the number of PEX lines you see. If there are two (blue/red) they are the hot/cold supply lines to the vanity faucet and YOUR anti-siphon valve is installed somewhere else in the trailer, probably behind the shower faucet area. If there are four, the other two PEX lines are for the black tank anti-siphon valve flush system. Here's are photos of what you'll see:

Replacing that valve witḣ a nice brass one is on my "to do" list but until I get around to it, I make sure that my winterizing process includes connecting the outside shower hose to the blank tank rinse port so I can pump some pink stuff into the black tank flush system!

[TakingtheFifth]

[QUOTE=Durango RV;524739]Thought occurred to me that we fill the grey tank MUCH faster than the black. But for some reason the Grey & Black tanks are the same size?!

So, what if I installed a transfer pump with a one-way check valve to move grey water into the black tank?

/QUOTE]

I had the same thought and I did install a (demand) pump and a filter and I use the grey water to flush the toilet. My rig has two grey tanks so I use the shower and bathroom sink water tank for flushing. The kitchen is on the other grey tank which can get pretty stinky, so I don't use that water for flushing. in addition to the pump and filter (for hair) I've added a tee valve to select either fresh or grey for flushing. I dump my chemicals for the black tank into the bathroom sink and therefore get a dose of chemical with each flush. We also tend to use plenty of water and keep the black tank "happy". My rig is now "balanced".

I've got 3-38 gal waste tanks and a 60 gal fresh water tank.

[AF0DJ]

Originally Posted by Lee

Hi,

I exclusively Boon-dock and (I may catch flack for this but) my grey water goes onto the forest floor.

Kind of depends where one is. We oft winter in a BLM LTVA. We shower outside so there's no shower water going into the grey tank. We also minimize fresh tank usage so our Black water tank is the one that fills first. BTW it was a BLM Ranger who told us that if the shower water doesn't hit the grey tank, it's not grey. Of course anything with food stuffs or greases in it would definitely be a BIG no-no for the reasons given elsewhere here.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by WDPatterson

The problem is, when you "balance" the tanks, you end up with black water in your gray tank. Not a good solution.

The original post suggests using a transfer pump with a one-way valve, otherwise known as a check valve, to make sure that black water does not end up in the gray tank. That is a much better solution.

I believe the post of adding the valve to equalize tanks was to do so with the 2 grey tanks not a grey & black.

[Max23]

Love the idea of dumping the bowl from dishwashing down the toilet. Gonna put that one into practice. Kill two birds with one stone so to speak. Thanks for the idea!!!!!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Max23

Love the idea of dumping the bowl from dishwashing down the toilet. Gonna put that one into practice. Kill two birds with one stone so to speak. Thanks for the idea!!!!!

It'll work with some floorplans, but is "quite a hazard" with some others. For instance, in a travel trailer with the galley adjacent to the bathroom, just open the door, take 2 or 3 steps and pour the dishpan into the toilet...

However, on a rear kitchen fifth wheel, it's much more difficult to do... Carry the "sloshing dishpan" through the main cabin, up the stairs, negotiate that door and then pour the dishwater into the toilet... On the way back to the galley, wipe up all the water you spilled, apologize to the dog for stepping on him and offer the two kids who got wet a cookie to stop them from crying.... I know "somewhat melodramatic" but that longer trip can be quite a bit harder to manage with a full dishpan.

In short, dumping a dishpan into the toilet might work for some, but can be a "HELL NO" for others....

[Mic]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

That anti-siphon valve is, IMO, the weakest link in the entire RV plumbing system. It won't survive a freeze, it won't survive high pressure or a "jolt" from quickly turning on the water to the flush system, it won't survive storing the trailer in hot weather and it won't survive storing the trailer with the least bit of water in the valve during freezing weather... In other words, "IT WON'T SURVIVE anything but the most careful use and cautious care.....

Many/most of us have simply removed it and bought a "quality brass anti-siphon valve" in the irrigation section of Lowe's or Home Depot, adapted fittings to that "improved valve" or simply removed the valve and built a "L shaped" fitting to replace it and used a "faucet end anti-siphon valve" (also found in the irrigation section of Lowe's or HD.

If you keep the OEM valve in place, the slightest "insult to protecting it" will provide you with a quick way to use every dry towel in your linen cabinet.

But, even with a replacement, more durable valve, you'll still face a buildup of grease and detergent residue on the flush spray head inside the black tank. Stop that valve and the flush system no longer works until you unplug it. That's no easy (or pleasant) task, given what's inside the tank..... YMMV

any change you have a picture or part number...

I have been looking for them

d bought a "quality brass anti-siphon valve" in the irrigation section of Lowe's or Home Depot, adapted fittings to that "improved valve"

[WDPatterson]

The floor plan of our Laredo 27RL includes a 38 gallon Black tank, a 38 gallon Gray tank, and a 45 gallon White tank. The shower and toilet are on the black tank. I guess the logic was their proximity to one another. The kitchen sink and bathroom lavatory, while almost at both ends of the trailer, share the gray tank. You can't rely on the LED monitor to tell you what the actual condition of each tank is. With the toilet, as discussed in other places, you always know when that's full. On the other hand, there *WAS* a screw on vent cap under the kitchen sink, which was lower than the lavatory sink. Every time the gray tank got full, we had to empty out the bottom cabinet under the sink and towel it all out. So, that "vent" got screwed shut.
It has never bothered us, since.

It always happens that, because the shower empties into the black tank, the black tank fills first.
The black tank gets emptied Into the Blue totes, the gray tank gets used to flush the line, and the frequency at which that happens depends on how many showers you take. It's definitely a reason to build an outside bath house, because, the time between emptying the black tank is solely depending on how many showers you take in a week.
As for the gray tank, it's nothing but washing hands and doing the dishes.
I suspect that the 27RL is not the only system using this design.

This was our first RV, and it's what you don't know that you don't know that counts. If I had it to do over again, I would go with something that has separate Outlets.

[dutchmensport]

Originally Posted by WDPatterson

...

The original post suggests using a transfer pump with a one-way valve, otherwise known as a check valve, to make sure that black water does not end up in the gray tank. That is a much better solution.

When reading all these posts, this was my first though. Then I saw the photo of the drill operated pump. So.... why not hook the pump up to the trailer's discharge pipe and then run the other hose coming out of the "pump" directly down the toilet?

But, I don't see the need why if you are already dumping the grey on the ground. ?????

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Mic

any change you have a picture or part number...

I have been looking for them

d bought a "quality brass anti-siphon valve" in the irrigation section of Lowe's or Home Depot, adapted fittings to that "improved valve"

Here's a photo and link to one at Lowe's. This time of year, there's no restocking in the lawn and garden section of our local store, so it's special order only. In the spring, they'll be on the shelf again. You will also need to get the correct fittings to adapt to your trailer "cone type fittings".

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Cash-Acme-B...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

As an option, you can also remove the existing anti-siphon valve, fabricate a PEX adapter to connect the two lines together and just install a "garden faucet anti-siphon valve to the black tank flush entry fitting on the side of the trailer. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Cash-Acme-B...ker/1002854708