Andersen safety concern

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by gearhead

Agreed. They are putting themselves “out there”. A metallurgist needs to look at that

My problem with the bolts is that there isn't any way to tell what grade they are as the ring for the chain is on the head. I am not too nervous about them giving as I have had those bolts in use for quite a few years with a couple different campers but still it is in my pointy head now.

[CedarCreekWoody]

So far they've not requested I return it.

[gearhead]

Pulling sideways on an eyebolt was a big no-no at my previous employer. They were considered for straight up lifting only.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by gearhead

Pulling sideways on an eyebolt was a big no-no at my previous employer. They were considered for straight up lifting only.

That makes sense but in this application the force will always be a sideways pull.

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

That makes sense but in this application the force will always be a sideways pull.

Yes that’s the problem.

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Interesting; my eyes are welded to the bolt heads and not the nuts. Also, never saw the NDF on a bolt and was curious if they are still Grade 5. Posted a link with a chart and nothing with NDF.

You posted important info and perhaps should contact the company directly for their take. If this is a safety issue they may be able to address it with a more appropriate bolt grade.

Welded on the bolt head. That don’t sound cool at all.
Pulling sideways on a forged shouldered machinery eye bolt is bad enough, but a welded on eye?
NO, and no some more.

[Fish-a-Palooza]

I would go to a fastner shop and get grade 8 which are fully heat treated. I would not rely on grade 5 which are partially heat treated to take on the kind of torque and side shear force you put on that setup. Stainless is very hard and brittle so not suitable at all for shear forces. Thanks for the heads up, I'll be checking out my hardware.

[jsb5717]

Frankly, I never really liked the OEM bolts. I ended up mounting my chains back to the pin box. Still had plenty of length when connected.

(sorry, it turned sideways)

[wiredgeorge]

It is irritating that I didn't think of doing this. Will repost your picture and ask if anyone remembers what size grade 8 bolts are used?

[sourdough]

I don't have the option of connecting to my pin box like the pic; all holes are enclosed and no adjustment to get it low enough to open up a hole. On another note, been speaking with Andersen and they said they didn't use grade 8 because they thought they might be too brittle and that grade 5s would bend vs break. How accurate that is I don't know. I have asked for clarification and I'm still heading down to get me some grade 8 bolts.

[JRTJH]

Several of my farm implements use grade 5 bolts as sheer pins. In fact, even the transverse drive bar on the front landing gear of my fifth wheel uses a grade 5 bolt as the "sheer pin" to protect the plastic gears in the follower gearbox for the follower landing gear leg.

I'd be very hesitant to even consider a grade 5 bolt as a primary means to secure safety chains on a heavy trailer. When you consider that any "trailer breakaway" is going to put a "sheer force on the chains as they reach their travel limit", it can "almost be guaranteed" that a grade 5 bolt will act more as a "sheer pin" rather than a "constraining force"....

Of course, if your "calculated result" is that you don't want the trailer banging into your tow vehicle if it uncouples from the ball, but rather would prefer that it separate from the tow vehicle so "you're safe and to hell with anyone else that might be so unlucky to be sharing the road at that time" ........

Yes, I actually had a salesman at an RV store tell me that safety chains were only designed to keep the trailer from turning over (keep the tongue forward) until they break, allowing the tow vehicle to remain in front of the trailer so it wouldn't roll over the towing vehicle.... Needless to say, I completely discounted his "advice" and left before spending any money at that dealership.....

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

It is irritating that I didn't think of doing this. Will repost your picture and ask if anyone remembers what size grade 8 bolts are used?

George if your are asking the size of the bolts on my adapter they are 5/8 x 6 inch. If you are asking about connecting to the king pin I can't help you.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I don't have the option of connecting to my pin box like the pic; all holes are enclosed and no adjustment to get it low enough to open up a hole. On another note, been speaking with Andersen and they said they didn't use grade 8 because they thought they might be too brittle and that grade 5s would bend vs break. How accurate that is I don't know. I have asked for clarification and I'm still heading down to get me some grade 8 bolts.

I have the same question. I've written them again to see if grade 8 is approved by the manufacturer. I will post if I receive a response.

[gearhead]

Not to throw a curve ball in this discussion but it has motivated me to to take another look at my safety chains. When I bought the Goosebox the safety chain kit was not available. I bought chain from the local hardware store. I didn’t like that so I used coiled cables. But I have a couple “add a links” to connect to the pinbox. Last night I was exploring alternatives and realized the add a links are the weakest link in the system. So, I guess I will be replacing at least the add a links with shackles. Probably go back to chains as well, just stronger than hardware store chain. I have found some grade 70 but want to go stronger.
What are y’all’s thoughts on using polyester lifting “chokers”?

[CedarCreekWoody]

Andersen just responded to my question about using grade 8 bolts:

"Yes. Using a grade 8 bolt would be okay to use and is approved by the manufacturer."

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by gearhead

Not to throw a curve ball in this discussion but it has motivated me to to take another look at my safety chains. When I bought the Goosebox the safety chain kit was not available. I bought chain from the local hardware store. I didn’t like that so I used coiled cables. But I have a couple “add a links” to connect to the pinbox. Last night I was exploring alternatives and realized the add a links are the weakest link in the system. So, I guess I will be replacing at least the add a links with shackles. Probably go back to chains as well, just stronger than hardware store chain. I have found some grade 70 but want to go stronger.
What are y’all’s thoughts on using polyester lifting “chokers”?

You make an excellent point about the links. Anchor shackles are much stronger. That is what is supplied with the Andersen system.

[gearhead]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

You make an excellent point about the links. Anchor shackles are much stronger. That is what is supplied with the Andersen system.

Yeah I’ve got shackles on the Ram safety chain end and add a links on the pinbox. I may as well use kite string for safety chains.

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by sourdough

On another note, been speaking with Andersen and they said they didn't use grade 8 because they thought they might be too brittle and that grade 5s would bend vs break.

I’m hoping that maybe you paraphrased what they said instead of it being a quote from someone at Andersen. Because, my first thought after reading this sentence (and honestly, after reading about their response to the OP) was that Andersen didn’t even bother to do any testing on their safety chains and just throw them out there to make the hitch legal and who cares if they actually work if needed. Scary thought to me.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by vampress_me

I’m hoping that maybe you paraphrased what they said instead of it being a quote from someone at Andersen. Because, my first thought after reading this sentence (and honestly, after reading about their response to the OP) was that Andersen didn’t even bother to do any testing on their safety chains and just throw them out there to make the hitch legal and who cares if they actually work if needed. Scary thought to me.

Lynette what I said was accurate and from "customer service" at Andersen. I asked for a name for "customer service"....nada. Today I replaced the grade 5s with grade 8s but here are my thoughts on the whole mess;

A 5th wheel hitch, or the Andersen, in TX does not require chains...they don't in many states, but some they do. IMO Andersen had to do something both economical and easy. They came up with a package to offer "chains" to appease states that required some chains hanging off the pin as a safety measure. In their comments to me and apparently others, YOU can go buy some grade 8 bolts to bolster that strength so you feel better...I don't and it is a great glimpse into the "shyster" side of Andersen and their philosophy IMO.

I'm not worried about the Andersen or it "imploding" and will continue to use it. Like a regular 5th wheel hitch I don't think it has any additional "worries" if you stay well within its weight limitations. I do however have a huge problem with the transparency that Andersen does not and has never had.

The design of the "safety chain" addition was never engineered to control a 14k trailer (or whatever) when it cut loose. Simply assessing the bolt/eye configuration and envisioning a huge load suddenly dropped onto them tells you those bolts will fail - grade 8 or not. On the flip side, like a regular 5th wheel hitch, I don't see the unit failing. I DO see Andersen failing in valuing the customers and most certainly their customer support.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Sourdough I think you pretty much nailed it!