How is this possible?

[wegone]

They advertise this trailer is 1/2 ton towable.
Look at the hitch weight, which I assume is dry, right?

I don't get it?

GVWR is 8900 lbs.

https://maine.craigslist.org/rvd/d/m...575111733.html

Could one of you savvy members chime in here and school us please?

[Poppy]

There are many TT and 5th wheels that a labeled and sold as 1/2 ton towable.I have a 5th wheel labeled as such. But, just because a pu is able to tow it, doesn’t make it a good idea. Nany cases, if it’s not safe, or it will wear out or cause more repairs for your truck.
Personally, I would not pull my 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton truck. It’s weight is close to the one you linked.

[wegone]

Yes Poppy, I see that a lot too.
This trailer is 75k to buy.
A person might have 150K tied up in a rig that just might come to a sad ending, certainly not the happy times they surely imagine when laying out so much $$$$$, a dream turn nightmare!

I am hoping someone can do the math using their knowledge to spell this all out in REAL TERMS.

No time for emotions, but hard cold reality in what is really being sold here.

The best half ton I can find is about 1500 pounds payload.

How can you expect to honestly pull that safely with it loaded to what you need to use it?

[cougar23]

Very shady advertising but there a few 1/2 ton pickups that could handle them.
The wife and I were looking at a Keystone Cougar 23MLS and was told by the sales agent the pin weight was 1100 lbs. I had a Ford F150 with cargo capacity
of 1720 lbs.
We bought the camper [5th wheel] , had a hitch installed and brought it home.
Checking specs on camper shower hitch weight of 1300+ lbs. ,hitch weighed 200 lbs. I lowered the hitch pin onto a tongue weight scale and got a weight of
1600 lbs.
Since we liked the camper I was forced to buy a 3/4 ton Super Duty truck.

[chuckster57]

I bet they use the “tow rating” of a 1/2 ton truck not the weight rating of the truck.

[NH_Bulldog]

My F150 was set up with the Max Tow package and had 2,195 cargo capacity. The 3.5L EcoBoost V6 would tow with tons of power to spare, but even my trailer was pushing the limits of the truck’s capability even though we never exceeded any of the rated limits. I would never have felt safe towing anything bigger. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I bet they use the “tow rating” of a 1/2 ton truck not the weight rating of the truck.

Yeah, I can hear the salesman now, "Half ton trucks have a tow rating around 11,000 pounds, this trailer only weighs 8900 pounds MAX, so you've got over a ton extra Heck, you could add another trailer with your ATV on it and still be under what your truck can tow."

[wegone]

Looking through the photos again of that trailer that can be towed by a 1/2 ton rear wheel drive short bed regular cab if you don't mind some sway in the wind.
I saw this disclaimer:

The TRUTH.

[Poppy]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

They advertise this trailer is 1/2 ton towable.
Look at the hitch weight, which I assume is dry, right?

I don't get it?

GVWR is 8900 lbs.

https://maine.craigslist.org/rvd/d/m...575111733.html

Could one of you savvy members chime in here and school us please?

Dry weight of the trailer, I think is done at the factory with no propane, no water or any other supplies.
If you add the dry weight with all you supplies, i.e. water, propane camping stuff, clothes, then have your truck loaded with any extras you want to take, plus everyone that’s going with you. Get it all hooked up. If the total weight is less than your GVWR, and the load on your rear axels does not exceed the load capacity of the truck, then you’re good to go. Otherwise, I’d consider a smaller trailer or a bigger truck.
I think I have it right. If not, someone will correct me. I have been known to be occasionally wrong.

[wiredgeorge]

That thing is right at 30' long and will have a tongue weight just north of 1100 lbs. Add hitch, passengers, junk in the 1/2 ton pickup and you are looking at 1600 lbs or more payload so it is possible a 1/2 ton can drag it down the road without being over payload rating if the 1/2 ton is equipped where it has a payload of around 2000 lbs and we do know that is possible. Given the length, I suspect at least a 3/4 ton would be a happier tow vehicle.

[markdol1]

Hey homey i bought a 37.5 cougar that says half ton right on the front graphics , loaded it weighs 10800 .an f150 may move it but i sure as hell would not drive it a mile! Lance products are nice but WAY overpriced Shop around theres no rush and the market is really getting soft $700 bucks a month is a big nut,you can buy a nice house for that depending on where you live.

[markcee]

Yep....definitely possible to stay under some 1/2 ton vehicle limitations and tow it.

I had 1873 lbs of payload capacity and managed to stay a couple hundred pounds under that cap with about 40 lbs or rear axle capacity to spare. Loaded up the trailer is 8300-8500 lbs. Of course I couldn't carry anything in the bed of the truck. I lasted about 6 months before trading in a brand new F150 for the F350.

If I had had a 'unicorn' F150 HDPP with 6.5' bed, which comes with a thicker frame and other beefed up components and about 2500 lbs of payload, I may have kept things as is, but I just didn't feel comfortable with my regular ol' 'max tow'.

I think most salesman (truck and RV) don't have enough knowledge, or simply don't care to advise you that just because it says '1/2 ton towable', it doesn't mean EVERY 1/2 ton truck - regardless of how equipped, should be towing it. Probably 80-90% of the 1/2 ton trucks on the road would bust payload with the larger '1/2 ton towables' with just a driver and one passenger.

[wiredgeorge]

Lance doesn't seem to advertise the trailer as half ton towable... that is the dealer saying it.
https://www.lancecamper.com/travel-trailers/2465/

[Max23]

Dealers will use specs and whatever else to their advantage to sell a camper. Just had an acquaintance buy one a little heavier than mine and to keep cost down for the sale (imo) told him he doesn't need an equalizer hitch. Pulling it with his 1/2 ton truck. Me and a buddy of mine both told him to go vack and get one! Also started schooling him on how the whole weight distribution works. Dealers will say anything! I'm guessing that 20% cushion is gonna be gone in his case as well. I know I'm right at it loaded.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

I am hoping someone can do the math using their knowledge to spell this all out in REAL TERMS.

No one seems to have done any math, yet, so here goes. I'll probably be lambasted for this but:

The general rule of thumb for the tongue weight of a ball-mounted hitch is 10% - 15% of the total load. There are other considerations but that is the generally accepted advise/rule.
(See here for one mfgs. comments:
https://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/trucks/...or-safe-towing )
and I have read the same from other mfgs. and other websites.

So - -
Dry - - 10% numbers are 6830 x .10 = 683 lbs
..........15% numbers are 6830 x .15 = 1024 lbs
Wet - -10% numbers are 8900 x .10 = 890 lbs
..........15% numbers are 8900 x .15 = 1335 lbs
The actual CLAIMED hitch weight (of this add) works out to 13.6% of dry weight and 10.5% of gross. Both are within the generally accepted parameters. It is interesting to note that the Lance website specs for this trailer specify 930 lbs as the DRY hitch weight - - the same as what the dealer is claiming (except that they are leaving out the DRY part).

People with real world towing experience may not be comfortable with the claimed spec. I wouldn't be. But they are technically within the recommendations. A beginner has no way of judging except for what the dealer tells them or what they may learn googling the subject. When a dealer AND a mfg. web page tells them that all is okay they will probably be happy. And I believe that most dealers will low-ball any of the numbers they need to to make a sale. It won't be until towing experience jars the new owner into reality that they will begin to question things.

[linux3]

Lance really makes a nice TT.
OK so 13% of 8900 lbs = 1157 lbs.
My truck with the trailer package, not the Max package, can carry 1680 lbs.
My DW and I are kinda thin and our bikes are light weight road bikes.
My 1/2 ton COULD pull it. I wouldn't but I could.

A guy I know with a short bed, standard cab, 2 WD bought a TT that had about the same weight. I tried to talk him out of it... No joy.
After adding leaves to the rear springs he left his transmission in SW PA.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

They advertise this trailer is 1/2 ton towable.
Look at the hitch weight, which I assume is dry, right?

I don't get it?

GVWR is 8900 lbs.

https://maine.craigslist.org/rvd/d/m...575111733.html

Could one of you savvy members chime in here and school us please?

The trailer’s dry weight is its GVW as it leaves the factory. That GVW includes the weight of the propane system and the weight of the propane (FMVSS 571.110 paragraphS4.3.5). If the dealer adds the battery and it’s less than 100# he doesn’t have to make any adjustments to the cargo capacity labeling.

As an owner of an RV, you become its “load master”.

The manufacturer’s published/recommended tongue weight is a hypothetical weight they must use for final vehicle certification. They cannot use a number that will not work. The standard is quite precise (FMVSS 571.110 paragraph 9.2). “The total weight of the vehicle’s certified GAWRs, when added to the published tongue weight, MUST not be less than GVWR”.

[wegone]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

The trailer’s dry weight is its GVW as it leaves the factory. That GVW includes the weight of the propane system and the weight of the propane (FMVSS 571.110 paragraphS4.3.5). If the dealer adds the battery and it’s less than 100# he doesn’t have to make any adjustments to the cargo capacity labeling.

As an owner of an RV, you become its “load master”.

The manufacturer’s published/recommended tongue weight is a hypothetical weight they must use for final vehicle certification. They cannot use a number that will not work. The standard is quite precise (FMVSS 571.110 paragraph 9.2). “The total weight of the vehicle’s certified GAWRs, when added to the published tongue weight, MUST not be less than GVWR”.

OK.....I think I see where this ends up.
As in a lot of states now they require a license to drive a boat, if you are not grandfathered in (HEY....that ain't gender woke )

This "loadmaster" seems a perfect need for a license to ensure everyone's safety.

[JRTJH]

If you think logically about what CW said, it's IMPOSSIBLE TO BE ACCURATE with any trailer weight !!!!!

Sure the "regs say" what is included in the GVW and placed on the trailer placard, but the regs DO NOT SAY what is advertised in a brochure for a trailer line.

Looking objectively, one trailer with NO optional equipment might have a weight of 6000 pounds, add an air conditioner to the bedroom, a generator, a larger refrigerator, a solar system, a built in vacuum and a king bed vs a queen bed and it's pretty easy to determine that the two trailers (the one in the brochure) and the one with the options are going to be significantly different weights.....

In this case, the "advertised weight on the website" vs the "real world weight of an actual trailer" are going to be different, and with the advertised trailer, there is a list of optional equipment (see below) that will weigh at least 200-300 pounds more than "the brochure weight" which is exactly the same as the "dealer advertised weight"... THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

Then, there's the 2075 pound cargo capacity. Some owners may load 2000 pounds in the front of the trailer while other owners may load 2000 pounds in the back of the trailer (extreme I know, but variability is what WILL happen). Those two owners will NOT have the same tongue weight, likely not have the same trailer weight and certainly will not have the same towing characteristics.

So, what some "regulation requires to be reflected on the trailer weight certification on the side of the trailer" is, in many examples, nowhere close to real world weights an owner will find in the brochure specs chart and can be significantly than what he will get on a CAT Scale weight slip when he hitches his trailer to his tow vehicle.

As a comment: Keystone has provided me with an email statement that I have posted on this forum multiple times. The email from Keystone states that the brochure weights for each model (as found in the brochure specifcations, not on a weight certification label) is the "BASE MODEL TRAILER WITH STANDARD EQUIPMENT, NO OPTIONS, EMPTY PROPANE TANKS, NO SPARE TIRE, WHEEL OR SPARE TIRE RACK, AND NO BATTERY. This is not the same conditions that a trailer is weighed to meet the requirements as certified on the front driver's side certification label. When you think about it, it's impossible to offer optional equipment that can be added to a trailer and have EVERY trailer produced weigh the same as they leave the factory assembly line.....

Here's a list of the optional equipment on the Lance trailer referenced in this post from the dealership website: https://www.scottsrecreation.com/New...01521?ref=list

[wegone]

Thanks John, very informative reply.

Put all of that info you shared. that will always take the weights north and push the safety factor/cushion along with it.

Even with the best weight distribution inside the trailer, and spread axles, somewhere along the highway it will teeter-totter and a minimal TV and jumping hitch weight, and....????

Ya know the most popular trailer configuration is a bunkhouse, which equates to young families.

So much emotion is vested in vacationing with a trailer, and it seems that envelope is getting pushed further and further into that risky zone because of bells and whistles and size....more is better, I dunno.

Maybe it just me, I get pretty anal about my own trailer, pulling, weight...

You guys have drilled that into my head, I understand once you cross that bridge and that unfortunate event happens, that genie ain't going back into that bottle.

I just don't want to be a witness.