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Old 12-12-2019, 12:47 PM   #41
Laredo Tugger
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markcee,
You have been counseled by the best and saturated with info and data. And as you have discovered there is some work to be done and decisions to make. Believe me, many before you have been at this junction. Myself and many others hope things work for you as planned and any adjustments will be minimal
Not sure if anyone has stated, but, Welcome to the Forum and Merry Christmas.
Good Luck
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:10 PM   #42
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Markcee - The RV salesman, Keystone and Ford are all trying to sell you something. Also keep in mind that the folks here are really anal about safety so I suspect if you get some decent tires you may survive. Try towing the trailer in real world scenarios and report back in... last keep in mind that I am only a weight policeman in training so take my comments with a grain of salt. Have a peaceful and blessed Christmas!
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Old 12-12-2019, 05:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by DrHolliday View Post
When I started to research my trailer that I bought I found some things interesting. When you look at 3/4- ton and bigger trucks the payload includes a 150 pound driver. When you look at 1/2-ton trucks specifically fords. The payload includes a 150 lb passenger in all available seating positions. If you have a 6 seat truck and only have 2 Adults in the truck at 200 lbs each you potentially have 500 more pounds of payload available.

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...F150_Oct25.pdf
I was amazed to read this. (And here I was wondering if the payload number did or didn't include a full gas tank.)

Upon looking at your reference, I don't believe it supports this claim. I do see a section where the brochure says that the payload figure in the immediately accompanying chart, which applies to truck camper use only, includes adults in all seats. It doesn't say that the number on the door frame is going to match the number in that chart (I'd be interested in knowing what that actually is). Maybe the number on the door frame is 900 lbs. more than the chart.

On every other page, I see the following disclaimer:

Quote:
Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer king pin (or tongue) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR.
That's pretty much the way we've been weighing things -- people come out of the available payload.
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:49 AM   #44
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bottom line at this point is you have what you have. I guess you are going to try pulling with your 1/2 ton since have it but I'd recommend don't be pulling long distances. And, have plans for a larger truck...soon.



Sorry you will be losing a lot of money on your trade for another truck.


good luck
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:51 AM   #45
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Wow, that was a great read! As a newbie, I am now a bit concerned though. I spent about six months in my 'research' and shopping for the trailer that I could safely pull with my 2016 RAM 1500 Eco-diesel. But now of course I have my doubts!

I just picked up a 2016 Keystone Hideout 26LHSWE last Saturday. The guy included everything including the pots and pans. And a class 4 hitch, ProSeries equalizer bars and an anti-sway bar. I thought it pulled great. But it was normal freeway driving (if you can call California freeways normal ... grrrr). I took it nice and easy and left myself plenty of room. But here that is an invitation for about 10 cars to fill said room! But that's another Oprah!

I am going to go back and check everything that was suggested here. I do have one question though. When do you use the 'Tow/Haul' button on the TV? Do you leave it on all the time? Do you turn it off while driving straight line 60MPH highways?

Thank you all for such great input! I am excited about getting in my first camping trip ... which is coming up in a few weeks.

Merry Christmas all!
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:00 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by rmance View Post
Wow, that was a great read! As a newbie, I am now a bit concerned though. I spent about six months in my 'research' and shopping for the trailer that I could safely pull with my 2016 RAM 1500 Eco-diesel. But now of course I have my doubts!

I just picked up a 2016 Keystone Hideout 26LHSWE last Saturday. The guy included everything including the pots and pans. And a class 4 hitch, ProSeries equalizer bars and an anti-sway bar. I thought it pulled great. But it was normal freeway driving (if you can call California freeways normal ... grrrr). I took it nice and easy and left myself plenty of room. But here that is an invitation for about 10 cars to fill said room! But that's another Oprah!

I am going to go back and check everything that was suggested here. I do have one question though. When do you use the 'Tow/Haul' button on the TV? Do you leave it on all the time? Do you turn it off while driving straight line 60MPH highways?

Thank you all for such great input! I am excited about getting in my first camping trip ... which is coming up in a few weeks.

Merry Christmas all!
This will vary truck to truck and what tow/haul means on a Ram will not be exactly the same as a Ford. In general, the tow haul will cause shift points to be at a higher rpm and may disable overdrive (if your truck has one). I never use tow/haul as my one ton doesn't shift up and down a lot even in hills as my diesel has enough power to pull my relatively light 5ver. You may find it useful for towing and I won't even try and guess whether you are pulling too much trailer as the forum weight police will be all over this issue soon enough.

Found this explanation of tow/haul on the web:

"In general, the tow/haul mode changes shift points to higher RPM limits. This helps you keep moving as you haul your trailer. As you go down hills, you may notice that your transmission will downshift earlier than normal. This allows the transmission to help you slow down and saves wear and tear on your brakes, too.

Many manufacturers design the tow/haul mode so that it disengages a vehicle's overdrive feature. Shifting frequently can cause overdrive to burn out."
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:11 AM   #47
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On the "tow/haul control issue" I'd suggest you refer to the owner's manual. As has been previously stated the purpose of the control is to change shift points and reduce the "hunting" for a gear the transmission may do while towing. Heat will destroy an automatic transmission and the constant downshifting and upshifting will raise transmission Temps rapidly.
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:29 AM   #48
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The main heat source is an unlocked converter, tow/haul locks the converter early in the gears. In GM Allison it locks at 25-28 mph or shortly after it shifts to 2nd gear.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:26 PM   #49
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The main heat source is an unlocked converter, tow/haul locks the converter early in the gears. In GM Allison it locks at 25-28 mph or shortly after it shifts to 2nd gear.
Right! Same for Ford. By locking the torque converter, you also get the advantage of some engine breaking while decelerating. When towing, I would leave it in tow/haul mode.
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Old 12-19-2019, 02:30 PM   #50
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Right! Same for Ford. By locking the torque converter, you also get the advantage of some engine breaking while decelerating. When towing, I would leave it in tow/haul mode.
I'd assume Dodge does the same. Even gassers keep it locked more.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:29 PM   #51
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Then there’s was me Towing current fifer with 2500 Duramax and 1000 like The op towing grossly over loaded, needing to change tires and using aigbags to make the TV safer.
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Old 12-19-2019, 03:41 PM   #52
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rmance , good luck on your camping trip and you're future experiences. Considering the weight disparity with truck's capability and the wt of the trailer, I hope your experiences are safe and don't end tragically.
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Old 12-19-2019, 05:59 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by rmance View Post
Wow, that was a great read! As a newbie, I am now a bit concerned though. I spent about six months in my 'research' and shopping for the trailer that I could safely pull with my 2016 RAM 1500 Eco-diesel. But now of course I have my doubts!

I just picked up a 2016 Keystone Hideout 26LHSWE last Saturday. The guy included everything including the pots and pans. And a class 4 hitch, ProSeries equalizer bars and an anti-sway bar. I thought it pulled great. But it was normal freeway driving (if you can call California freeways normal ... grrrr). I took it nice and easy and left myself plenty of room. But here that is an invitation for about 10 cars to fill said room! But that's another Oprah!

I am going to go back and check everything that was suggested here. I do have one question though. When do you use the 'Tow/Haul' button on the TV? Do you leave it on all the time? Do you turn it off while driving straight line 60MPH highways?

Thank you all for such great input! I am excited about getting in my first camping trip ... which is coming up in a few weeks.

Merry Christmas all!
First, MERRY CHRISTMAS!! as well.

Use tow/haul mode when towing? Absolutely IMO. If not, plan on replacing that tranny trying to pull 7600 lbs. all over while it searches for a gear - nope, use it - I've got that badge and the check to prove it.

Your truck will be marginal for that trailer. Look at your door sticker (driver side) and see what your payload is. I'm not familiar with the eco diesel specs but I'm afraid that might be a soft spot. Figure the trailer gvw is 7600 then the tongue would be in the range of 800 - 1140 lbs. or so. The payload is key here.

Beyond that a 1/2 ton, street equipped truck, will have a hard time with a 7600 lb. trailer without some help....if it doesn't exceed load capacities. A 30' trailer (sail) behind your truck can exert tremendous forces on the vehicle. From what I'm finding you have an entry level wdh with an add on sway bar...dump it and get a good one. I've towed something similar and even with an Equalizer 4 point it could get out of hand in winds/gusts/cross truck traffic (truck problem).

Look at those numbers in the door and post back, and no, don't feel comfortable about that combo yet...there's more to towing than getting it to roll.
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Old 12-20-2019, 07:31 AM   #54
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Also have the T shirt because I didn't use tow/haul. Years ago was pulling a little 2500# TT through the mountains with an '05 Explorer with 4.6 engine. Had it on CC and daydreaming when it downshifted and engine over revved. Trans was OK but that 4.6 went bye bye. Had I used tow/haul could have possibly saved several $$. Like $8k for a used one. First year for the 24 valve Triton. Have since learned to always use tow/haul even when towing on flat roads.
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Old 12-20-2019, 08:21 AM   #55
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Always used tow/haul when towing. The owners manual recommended doing so any time you tow, I figure they designed it that way, book recommends doing so, figured why not, their engineers are more knowledgeable about transmissions than I am, never a problem.
I definitely noticed the difference towing in stop/go traffic in tow/haul as much as in downhill speed reduction.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:07 PM   #56
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Been there!

Tried towing my 28 ft Vantage with my "Guaranteed to be ok" beefed up F150. After our first trip over 200 miles, I was so afraid to drive it that I went out and spent 32 grand on a real truck. 80 PSI tires and all. F250 time. I am a combat vet and not easily scared. I never use cruise when towing because I believe it is unsafe, and have lost 2 trannies using cruise while not towing. You must learn how your tow vehicle likes to tow, at what speed and under what circumstances. Sometimes tow haul will give better results and sometimes not. Headwind, tailwind and grade changes will all make the truck act differently and you have to drive appropriately or you will tear it up. Tip! an echo boost small cubic engine boosted way up will wear out and / or self destruct when you try running it at 3800 RPM for hours on end, just to keep your speed at 45rpm.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:09 PM   #57
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If you click on my avatar and check out pictures of both tow vehicles you will know my story about adequate towing.
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:13 PM   #58
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Tried towing my 28 ft Vantage with my "Guaranteed to be ok" beefed up F150. After our first trip over 200 miles, I was so afraid to drive it that I went out and spent 32 grand on a real truck. 80 PSI tires and all. F250 time. I am a combat vet and not easily scared. I never use cruise when towing because I believe it is unsafe, and have lost 2 trannies using cruise while not towing. You must learn how your tow vehicle likes to tow, at what speed and under what circumstances. Sometimes tow haul will give better results and sometimes not. Headwind, tailwind and grade changes will all make the truck act differently and you have to drive appropriately or you will tear it up. Tip! an echo boost small cubic engine boosted way up will wear out and / or self destruct when you try running it at 3800 RPM for hours on end, just to keep your speed at 45rpm.
You have to be the 1st I've ever read that admits a F150 EcoBoost couldn't handle anything you wanted to hitch up to it, regardless of weight or length & not brag "didn't know it was back there"!
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Old 12-20-2019, 07:48 PM   #59
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Thanks for the valuable input.
I pulled my Bullet 248RKS home, ascending from 5500 feet to 8800 feet with my 2019 3.5 ecoboost supercrew 3.31 axle. That was the only tow I have experienced with this camper and only limited highway. It pulled surprising well. The trailer has two batteries and two full propane tanks, so it did not have any water or junk load. Someone said they can’t imagine an ecoboost pulling 2500 lbs? My last trailer weight 3500lbs and yes, I’ll say it, “you couldn’t even tell there was a trailer back there.” I am concerned with the lack of engine braking with this new trailer, but the trailer brakes seem to be good. I am hoping for the best as I couldn’t afford a new truck.
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Old 12-21-2019, 09:17 AM   #60
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I pulled my Bullet 248RKS home, ascending from 5500 feet to 8800 feet with my 2019 3.5 ecoboost supercrew 3.31 axle. That was the only tow I have experienced with this camper and only limited highway. It pulled surprising well. The trailer has two batteries and two full propane tanks, so it did not have any water or junk load. Someone said they can’t imagine an ecoboost pulling 2500 lbs? My last trailer weight 3500lbs and yes, I’ll say it, “you couldn’t even tell there was a trailer back there.” I am concerned with the lack of engine braking with this new trailer, but the trailer brakes seem to be good. I am hoping for the best as I couldn’t afford a new truck.
Just curious with that gear ratio what kind of rpms were cranking?
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