New 5th wheel on the way....

[jasin1]

Good luck and find a nice capable truck ( used or new) and have fun! I was right where you are not more then a month ago

[nellie1289]

By the way, just looked up the 368MBI's hitch weight dry on Keystones website. it is 1980lbs as someone pointed out earlier. That means he can put quite a bit of weight in the front areas of the fiver, and still be probably under 2600, leaving room for his hitch, DW, himself, and two kids. That is a light weight pin fiver. I think this trailer way more manageable for his truck IMHO, compared to other fivers in the cougar line which when i looked were way higher for the 2021 model year. My 2015 cougar 336bhs had a 1850 advertised weight and i was never over 2500-2600 on the scales, packing moderately to heavy with most my stuff in the front hatch. I also think about my traveling experience, i have only traveled with the tanks full once(grey and black) but the fresh was empty. I just think that leaves a lot of wiggle room if OP has deep concerns, most places you can dump the tanks at the spot you are at or nearby, that is just our camping experience, I know a lot of people dry camp.

[Big1]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

So there has been a lot of good info on here. My thanks. The sticker on my door shows a payload max of just over 3K. Typically, it is me, my wife and 3 dogs. Some food, fuel and that's about it. We have always travelled light and will continue to do that. We have talked about the mistake of thinking "oh, just stick in the trailer". That won't happen again. I am taking possession on Saturday. I'll drive back with only me in the truck and nothing in the trailer. I have decided that if I feel it necessary to be safe, I"m willing to upgrade my truck to a dually. Mine is paid off.
I feel like a bit of an idiot, not computing all of the necessary weight considerations in advance, but we had no plans on upgrading to a 5th wheel. You'd think by now I'd be smarter than that.......my fault for listening to the wrong people.....
As far as loading up more stuff into the rig as times goes by, that again, won't happen. Especially in light of this conversation.

That is great and congrats, don't forget to post pics I love looking at others setup.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by nellie1289

By the way, just looked up the 368MBI's hitch weight dry on Keystones website. it is 1980lbs as someone pointed out earlier. That means he can put quite a bit of weight in the front areas of the fiver, and still be probably under 2600, leaving room for his hitch, DW, himself, and two kids. That is a light weight pin fiver. I think this trailer way more manageable for his truck IMHO, compared to other fivers in the cougar line which when i looked were way higher for the 2021 model year. My 2015 cougar 336bhs had a 1850 advertised weight and i was never over 2500-2600 on the scales, packing moderately to heavy with most my stuff in the front hatch. I also think about my traveling experience, i have only traveled with the tanks full once(grey and black) but the fresh was empty. I just think that leaves a lot of wiggle room if OP has deep concerns, most places you can dump the tanks at the spot you are at or nearby, that is just our camping experience, I know a lot of people dry camp.

I disagree. NOWHERE did he ever say his passengers included two kids. His direct quote from post #6 states, "And it’s most always the 2 of us and 3 dogs..."

To be accurate, we don't know if the "2 of us" weigh 225 pounds or 625 pounds and we don't know if his three dogs are toy poodles (5 pounds each) or English Mastiffs (225 pounds each).....

So, IMHO (and I think, realistically) there's no way you can provide any "evidence based" response like what's in red.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

Got it....now the idea of a dually sounds more appealing....

Blueswede, Keep in mind when you purchase any one ton truck that the diesel engine, 4wd, crew cab, and level of truck trim all decrease your payload capacity. I have a 2006 F350 XL model (no carpet, no power door locks (added these), no power windows, etc etc. I have a crew cab, 6.0L diesel and automatic, 4wd. My truck is rated to drag 15,500 lbs down the road BUT my payload is right at 4000 lbs. The level of trim gave me about 1000 lbs more than your F350 which has a better transmission and more powerful engine. Those with gas engines and no 4wd pick up close to 1000 lbs payload because of the weight savings; not suggesting you go this route but look at the payload sticker for any potential buy and know that almost all drw pickups have more than adequate payload taking that worry out of the quotient.

[Nankipoo]

So I guess when I pulled a 2 horse trailer back in the day with saddles, bridles, 2 horses and wife with a Mazda B2200 pickup I was overloaded?

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Nankipoo

So I guess when I pulled a 2 horse trailer back in the day with saddles, bridles, 2 horses and wife with a Mazda B2200 pickup I was overloaded?

Yep and when I put that 8' cabover camper on my 83 Ranger with the 4 banger in it, I was about 3 times the payload.... We won't talk about the Skeeter with the 225HP on it that I hitched to the bumper of the truck. I did have "mud tires" on the back and the headlights weren't needed during the day....

Looking back, well, that's one blue truck I prefer not to look back on when it comes to what I asked it to do....

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Yep and when I put that 8' cabover camper on my 83 Ranger with the 4 banger in it, I was about 3 times the payload.... We won't talk about the Skeeter with the 225HP on it that I hitched to the bumper of the truck. I did have "mud tires" on the back and the headlights weren't needed during the day....

Looking back, well, that's one blue truck I prefer not to look back on when it comes to what I asked it to do....

Back in the late 1960's a cousin of mine in WV. bought a big cabover for hunting. I was there for his initial trip as the po delivered it to him. Ho strapped in to his F100 and off we went. About 1/2 mile down the road we started up a 9% grade (I did mention it was in WV right?) . Anyway, when he downshifted he pulled a wheelie, front tires about a foot off the pavement. He hit the brakes but it stayed there at full attention. I climbed on the bumper and it slowly came down. He had to back down the hill with me standing on the bumper. Went back to his house and when we waked in the door he called the newspaper and put in an ad for sale before he even took his coat off.

[ObiRich]

I got an Anderson Ultimate hitch when we bought our 5'er. It only weighs about 40 pounds, so comes out fast and easy, and when out, all that's in the bed are the rails, so you have nearly full use of the bed.

[CaptnJohn]

Wife wanted a 5er so traded the TT in for a lite Cougar AND F250 that made the numbers, then wife saw a High Country she had to have, traded the Cougar and truck 3 years later, now F350. Next wife saw the Montana FL WE (?) had to have 2 years later and now have the Montana AND an F350 dually. I do like new trucks BUT ~~~

Scales show most couples that travel light add about 1500#. Most that travel normal about 2200#. My wife feels the 3100# we carry required stuff!

[adeakins]

Diesel or gas?

[Mikelff]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

So my wife and I went out to Quartzite for the RV expo. We have been camping in a 2015 Hideout for almost 6 years. I have enjoyed it, but there are a number of things that we wished that it had....more storage, better construction and more storage.....
We have looked at 5th wheels a number of times over the past years but never saw one that truly appealed to us. Well, the first thing we saw was a 2021 Keystone Cougar 368MBI and once we took a look at it, we were sold. They gave us a really good trade in on the Hideout and I take possession next weekend. Really excited about the new rig. Just need to get a 5th wheel hitch installed. Probably going with the B&W hitch.
Any tips or advice is appreciated as this is our first 5th wheel...

It sounds like you will be towing your new rig home with your current TV regardless of whether you get a “new to you” TV. If that is the case, you might as well stop at the CAT scales when you get close to home. Weigh your truck with full fuel and bring the wife along. Weight the truck alone with you and the wife, then weigh the truck and new 5er which will be empty, except for what the dealer adds on like propane tanks, battery, etc. Now you have your “Real” weights, and you can figure your ACTUAL pin weight, and payload. What people forget is that not all the weight in your truck goes to your rear. Some goes to the front axle, as does some of your pin weight. By getting real world weights at the CAT scales, you can figure real world weights for the rest of your needs, which in the end is what you need. After that, you can load your trailer and truck with what you will have for a typical trip. Watch out for how much water you cary. That adds weight quick. I typically travel with 15 gallons of fresh water, and a full water heater. Then hit the scales before you head out. Now you have real world weights, and real world payload weights. You now know how much excess capacity you have, and you need a few hundred pounds, or how much overloaded you are. At this point you can decide if you need a new truck or not. Im sure your current truck is fine towing your new rig home empty, and for getting weights at the CAT scales. After that, if the numbers don’t line up, time for a new truck. At least you will know for sure using real world numbers before spending the big bucks for a new truck. Swapping out your hitch is no big deal so go ahead and put it in your current truck and see for sure what your weights are. If you get a new truck, do the same thing at the Cat scale with your new truck so you know what your numbers are. I try to hit the scales before I head out on any big trip because that is when I am typically the heaviest weight. I like to know where I am on weight, just for piece of mind. You will have fun with that new rig!

[vancouverbrian]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

So my wife and I went out to Quartzite for the RV expo. We have been camping in a 2015 Hideout for almost 6 years. I have enjoyed it, but there are a number of things that we wished that it had....more storage, better construction and more storage.....
We have looked at 5th wheels a number of times over the past years but never saw one that truly appealed to us. Well, the first thing we saw was a 2021 Keystone Cougar 368MBI and once we took a look at it, we were sold. They gave us a really good trade in on the Hideout and I take possession next weekend. Really excited about the new rig. Just need to get a 5th wheel hitch installed. Probably going with the B&W hitch.
Any tips or advice is appreciated as this is our first 5th wheel...

Congratulations on the new rig. I am sure it will be very nice.

About getting the numbers right so that you tow legally and safely. It is important to drill down on the numbers. First as an estimate using numbers you know, then scaling the truck and the rig when you have both.

The rig you are purchasing is 13,980 GVWR total. Empty weight and max cargo. That is the number to use when estimating a hypothetical trailer.

There are several different numbers to check but will concentrate on 2.

There is the towing number which is the number that the truck can tow behind it. It is usually found in the owner's manual but can be found in a manufacturer's towing guide.

Then there is the payload. It is the amount of weight pushing down on the truck bed. Legally it is the GVWR of the truck that cannot be exceeded but payload is a component of it. There should be a payload sticker in the door to use as a guide but the way to know, is to take the truck over a scale with the tools, people, etc that you take with you when towing, and you have the curb weight of the truck. You take the GVWR of the truck and subtract the curb weight and you have the available payload to work with. Don't forget the weight of the hitch also must be included or accounted for.

Your trailer is 13,980 GVWR and to calculate an estimate, 15-25% of the GVWR of the trailer will transfer to the truck in your available payload. I use 20% but others use 22%. That makes the pin weight for transfer at 2796lbs. Your manufacturer states it is 1980lbs. Now you understand why you cannot trust them.

Older 1 ton trucks have lower numbers as there has been an effort to increase the capacity of the newer trucks. I cannot tell you if your truck can handle this trailer without more information from the truck (GVWR and/or payload).

I am not coming down on you. I am glad you are asking the questions. It is very important that you understand this in order to tow safely and legally.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by vancouverbrian

Congratulations on the new rig. I am sure it will be very nice.

About getting the numbers right so that you tow legally and safely. It is important to drill down on the numbers. First as an estimate using numbers you know, then scaling the truck and the rig when you have both.

The rig you are purchasing is 13,980 GVWR total. Empty weight and max cargo. That is the number to use when estimating a hypothetical trailer.

There are several different numbers to check but will concentrate on 2.

There is the towing number which is the number that the truck can tow behind it. It is usually found in the owner's manual but can be found in a manufacturer's towing guide.

Then there is the payload. It is the amount of weight pushing down on the truck bed. Legally it is the GVWR of the truck that cannot be exceeded but payload is a component of it. There should be a payload sticker in the door to use as a guide but the way to know, is to take the truck over a scale with the tools, people, etc that you take with you when towing, and you have the curb weight of the truck. You take the GVWR of the truck and subtract the curb weight and you have the available payload to work with. Don't forget the weight of the hitch also must be included or accounted for.

Your trailer is 13,980 GVWR and to calculate an estimate, 15-25% of the GVWR of the trailer will transfer to the truck in your available payload. I use 20% but others use 22%. That makes the pin weight for transfer at 2796lbs. Your manufacturer states it is 1980lbs. Now you understand why you cannot trust them.

Older 1 ton trucks have lower numbers as there has been an effort to increase the capacity of the newer trucks. I cannot tell you if your truck can handle this trailer without more information from the truck (GVWR and/or payload).

I am not coming down on you. I am glad you are asking the questions. It is very important that you understand this in order to tow safely and legally.

In real rv world weights the max tow weight of any truck is meaningless, typically with RVs they WILL exceed the payload limit long before they'll ever tow their rated weight. This number gets more folks into trouble as they tend to use it with the dry weight of the chosen rv, "my truck is rated to tow XXk lbs & that rv dry weight is only XXk lbs, so I should be good!"............NOT!
Most trucks are capable of "moving" much more weight than they are capable of "carrying".
The 2 most important numbers are YOUR trucks payload found on the door post & the proper percentage of tongue/pin weights (13% for TTs tongue, 23% for 5ers pin weight) from the GVWR of YOUR rv manufacturers tag on the drivers side front corner, not numbers from brochures or manuals or ANYTHING a salesman tells you for either the truck or rv.

[vancouverbrian]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

In real rv world weights the max tow weight of any truck is meaningless, typically with RVs they WILL exceed the payload limit long before they'll ever tow their rated weight. This number gets more folks into trouble as they tend to use it with the dry weight of the chosen rv, "my truck is rated to tow XXk lbs & that rv dry weight is only XXk lbs, so I should be good!"............NOT!
Most trucks are capable of "moving" much more weight than they are capable of "carrying".
The 2 most important numbers are YOUR trucks payload found on the door post & the proper percentage of tongue/pin weights (13% for TTs tongue, 23% for 5ers pin weight) from the GVWR of YOUR rv manufacturers tag on the drivers side front corner, not numbers from brochures or manuals or ANYTHING a salesman tells you for either the truck or rv.

You are correct that most trucks have a payload issue before a towing issue. I tried hard to educate this person in regards to his truck and new trailer.

The PAYLOAD sticker is a guide that is not considered when dealing with legal load issues. The number that is the guiding number is the GVWR. If sent to a scale, they will not weigh for payload but your GVW. Payload is part of that number. And the payload sticker is a calculated number which can change depending on what someone does to his truck or to what cargo they are carrying.

When discussing the estimation for tongue weight or pin weight, it is an estimation. For pin weight (fifth wheel), the experts say 15-25%. While you use 23%, it is your opinion that is the correct number to use. I used 20% because it is an easy number. It is not the Law. The only correct number is found at a scale.

I looked up the specs of the Cougar 368MBI, and it did not show the GVWR but the empty weight and the cargo weight. He does not have the rig yet, but you are correct, that if in possession of the trailer, there would be a sticker on the rig with the GVWR. I took the specs from Keystone and they are correct.

There are other numbers to consider, GAWR, GCWR etc but I concentrated on GVWR/Payload because that is where the problem usually is. I only mentioned the Towing numbers to educate him and where to find the info if he needs it.

I try very hard to give good information. I take my time and try to lay it out in a logical format. I can be wrong. But as a retired professional truck driver, I think the information I give is usually correct.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by vancouverbrian

You are correct that most trucks have a payload issue before a towing issue. I tried hard to educate this person in regards to his truck and new trailer.

The PAYLOAD sticker is a guide that is not considered when dealing with legal load issues. The number that is the guiding number is the GVWR. If sent to a scale, they will not weigh for payload but your GVW. Payload is part of that number. And the payload sticker is a calculated number which can change depending on what someone does to his truck or to what cargo they are carrying.

When discussing the estimation for tongue weight or pin weight, it is an estimation. For pin weight (fifth wheel), the experts say 15-25%. While you use 23%, it is your opinion that is the correct number to use. I used 20% because it is an easy number. It is not the Law. The only correct number is found at a scale.

I looked up the specs of the Cougar 368MBI, and it did not show the GVWR but the empty weight and the cargo weight. He does not have the rig yet, but you are correct, that if in possession of the trailer, there would be a sticker on the rig with the GVWR. I took the specs from Keystone and they are correct.

There are other numbers to consider, GAWR, GCWR etc but I concentrated on GVWR/Payload because that is where the problem usually is. I only mentioned the Towing numbers to educate him and where to find the info if he needs it.

I try very hard to give good information. I take my time and try to lay it out in a logical format. I can be wrong. But as a retired professional truck driver, I think the information I give is usually correct.

I appreciate your efforts but just want to point out that the gvwr alone is meaningless unless you scale the truck. Many can't, or won't, do that. Missing that critical piece of information the ONLY thing one can do when "estimating" unknown combinations is use the printed payload on the vehicle.

[tbirdkeys]

You may want to consider an Andersen hitch for your truck. It only weighs a total of 35 pounds.

[ktex]

Originally Posted by sourdough

"Any tips or advice is appreciated as this is our first 5th wheel..."

In answer to your question the above is a direct quote from the OP's initial post. That request would include anything weight related IMO.

Also the OP has a 2011 F350 which maxes out at about 12500 towing capability vs the 13,980gvw of the trailer. I didn't see payload for the truck but even the newer ones (up to 2020) don't have payloads that approach 4000lbs. with a diesel that I've seen. I primarily look at Rams but they aren't much different from a Ford - so I'm thinking the weight discussion is very relevant.

MyF350 crewcab is over 5800lbs payload.

[Blueswede]

Payload is 3000 lbs. According to the Ford specs, towing capacity is 15,700.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by ktex

MyF350 crewcab is over 5800lbs payload.

Since none of us have any information on your truck other than what you posted, it's great (maybe) that you have a 5800 pound payload. Without knowing if you've got a gas or diesel, single or dual rear wheel "F350" there's no means to determine any validity or means of comparison to the OP's situation.