New 5th wheel on the way....

[Blueswede]

So my wife and I went out to Quartzite for the RV expo. We have been camping in a 2015 Hideout for almost 6 years. I have enjoyed it, but there are a number of things that we wished that it had....more storage, better construction and more storage.....
We have looked at 5th wheels a number of times over the past years but never saw one that truly appealed to us. Well, the first thing we saw was a 2021 Keystone Cougar 368MBI and once we took a look at it, we were sold. They gave us a really good trade in on the Hideout and I take possession next weekend. Really excited about the new rig. Just need to get a 5th wheel hitch installed. Probably going with the B&W hitch.
Any tips or advice is appreciated as this is our first 5th wheel...

[chuckster57]

Congrats on the upgrade. If your used to a bumper pull, the new fiver will turn different, so you may want to practice a few turns. It will tow much easier, and you shouldn’t get any sway when trucks go by. B&W makes a very nice hitch.

[JRTJH]

I'd urge you to "RUN THE NUMBERS".....

You've got a Hideout bunkhouse trailer and are buying a Cougar "bunkhouse" fifth wheel.

I'd suspect you have more than just 2 people travelling with you.

The "brochure weights on the Cougar line" are PURE FANTASY...

As an example, the advertised pin weight of the 368MBI is 1980 which is 16.8% of the shipping weight. It will "grow expotentially" when you add batteries, propane, camping equipment to the trailer. I'd expect a "final pin weight" in the 3000-3500 pound range (including the B&W hitch weight).

The Cougar 368MBI is 40' long (Cougar's biggest trailer) and has a GVW of 13980 pounds. The washer/dryer prep is in the front nose cone.

The B&W Companion hitch is about 150 pounds.

A quick "down and dirty" puts the trailer pin (at max weight) at 20-25% in the 2800-3500 pound range, and with a washer/dryer, may be slightly more, so when you add in the fifth wheel hitch you'll very likely be well above 3000 pounds on the pin.

Depending on how many passengers you have in the truck and how your trailer is configured, you may find that your F350 will be overloaded with that trailer.

Do the numbers so you're not surprised at the CAT scale after you've bought the trailer and find your truck doesn't have the payload to carry it.

[JJaxon]

Congratulations on the new 5th wheel. As John said above, watch the numbers and know you'll want to have excess, not too close to the limits.
You didn't post what your tow vehicle is, but with a 40 foot trailer, don't be fooled into the idea a 3/4 ton truck will work. Go 1 ton dually now if you haven't already. An Andersen Ultimate hitch works great with this size 5th wheel, and is easy in and out of the truck bed.

Welcome to the big rig RV world, safe travels.

[Blueswede]

Tow vehicle is a 2011 Ford F-350...

[Blueswede]

And it’s most always the 2 of us and 3 dogs...

[Blueswede]

And no washer or dryer...

[Blueswede]

John- where do you get the 13980 figure?

[tech740]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

John- where do you get the 13980 figure?

That is the GVW of the trailer. It is the ship weight plus the cargo weight. So that trailer can weigh 13980lbs max. It gets to that faster than you would think. It is the point that you should use to figure pin weight. Should be between 20 and 25%. So 2800-3500lbs. If you have a single rear wheel truck, the pin weight plus the weight of the hitch plus the dog plus the people plus anything else you add to the truck for cargo or options your payload will be eaten up quick. Payload is the number on the yellow and white sticker inside the drivers door. If you have a dual rear wheel (DRW) you will be all set. I have a single rear wheel (SRW) and its got 3900lbs for payload.

[nellie1289]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

So my wife and I went out to Quartzite for the RV expo. We have been camping in a 2015 Hideout for almost 6 years. I have enjoyed it, but there are a number of things that we wished that it had....more storage, better construction and more storage.....
We have looked at 5th wheels a number of times over the past years but never saw one that truly appealed to us. Well, the first thing we saw was a 2021 Keystone Cougar 368MBI and once we took a look at it, we were sold. They gave us a really good trade in on the Hideout and I take possession next weekend. Really excited about the new rig. Just need to get a 5th wheel hitch installed. Probably going with the B&W hitch.
Any tips or advice is appreciated as this is our first 5th wheel...

Tip #1- WATCH YOUR HEIGHT! these are tall, trees, road hazards, signs, trees along streets, et all will ruin your day
TIp #2= make sure you have adequate space between the top of the rails of your pickup and bottom of fiver. 7" min! mine is 9".

Enjoy your cougar, we loved ours before recently upgrading to the montana. IN fact, our montana is missing options the cougar had!

[nellie1289]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

Tow vehicle is a 2011 Ford F-350...

Your f350 is plenty!

By the way, just noticed your cougar is the same floor plan as my montana, didnt realize they made the cougar in same floorplan. FYI my trailer is 16900 max weight, so that shows you how much more heavy the "materials are" in montana than the similar cougar. I rolled the scales with a little bit of stuff in the front hatch compartment and pin was 3200. Keep in mind i also have the generator up front, so those pin weights you are getting above are probably pretty "conservative" Hit me up if you want more questions answered about a similar floorplan, you can see my truck in the pic in my sig, i put some airbags on it after this pic to get the 1" of rear sag out, but i am still well within my 4000+ payload on a ram 3500.

[markcee]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

John- where do you get the 13980 figure?

That is the 368's GVWR: 11,751 dry + 2,229 CCC.

At 22% average pin weight that 3,000 pounds, that plus the hitch weight will come right off the tow vehicle's payload.

Look at the cargo carrying capacity listed on your F350's yellow/white driver's side door pillar sticker. Subtract 3K (plus the physical weight of your hitch) from that and it will give you a very rough idea of what you have left for you, the wife, dog(s), tools, toolbox and any other cargo/camping gear you carry in the truck.

[Blueswede]

I can't ever see the day when we have 2200 lbs. of stuff inside the trailer. My wife is very frugal and so am I when it comes to carrying stuff. We just wanted room for the stuff we normally carry instead of using the bunk beds as storage.
I know that the F350 has a tow capacity of 15,700 lbs. Seems like I"m somewhat under that....

[tech740]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

I can't ever see the day when we have 2200 lbs. of stuff inside the trailer. My wife is very frugal and so am I when it comes to carrying stuff. We just wanted room for the stuff we normally carry instead of using the bunk beds as storage.
I know that the F350 has a tow capacity of 15,700 lbs. Seems like I"m somewhat under that....

You may be completely fine and under all capacities. Usually you run out of payload before tow capacity is all.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

I can't ever see the day when we have 2200 lbs. of stuff inside the trailer. My wife is very frugal and so am I when it comes to carrying stuff. We just wanted room for the stuff we normally carry instead of using the bunk beds as storage.
I know that the F350 has a tow capacity of 15,700 lbs. Seems like I"m somewhat under that....

Not being argumentized but do those reading this thinking "So my truck's ratings are a few hundred pounds under with the trailer empty weight" and "we don't take that much".

If you currently own a camper and are looking to "upsize" I'd urge you to pay a visit to scale. See what your current unit weights vs the published shipping weight. I have yet to hear anyone using this argument that KNOWS how much weight they are currently carrying. Even better yet, pull EVERYTHING out that wasn't there when you bought it and set it on the ground. I'll think either way it will be an eye opener. We had several boats that we kept in a nearby marina for many years. They had a repair center and several times I would hear the service manager talking with an owner on the dock about the drop off in performance. They would tell the owner to unload everything from the boat onto the pier and they could go out together to test speed, time to get up on plane etc. Typically, about 2 hrs. later when the SM would return the owner would sheepishly say "never mind, I didn't realize we had that much stuff on board".

For folks that don't yet own a camper consider this... take some time and weight the items you plan on taking and that you WILL NEED.
Plan on eating? Ok then you'll need pots, pans, frypan, can opener, utensils for cooking like knives, spoons and ladels , baking pans, cookie sheet, coffee maker, toaster, slow cooker? The list goes on. Now go to your pantry at home and start recording the weights of the "staples" that will likely end up in the camper like pork & beans, cooking oil or sprays, pancake mix, sugar, coffee creamer, spices (yes, every little container add weight) , soups (make your own, great how about the soup stock, bullion cubes, whatever else in in it), maybe some canned corn or other vegetables? Now we haven't even addressed the groceries yet!

Go to the store and buy groceries as if you are going camping. You'll need enough food to feed your family, and whomever you anticipate visiting you, for the duration of your trip. Meats, fresh veggies and fruit, coffee, juice, milk, tea, soft drinks, adult beverages? How about snacks? If you're pacing for kids they love popcorn, cookies, chips, and don't forget the smore's!

Now chances are you'll buy some of those long sticks to make smore's over the fire. Want to cook over the fire? A lot of "first timers" go for the nostalgia of cooking over a campfire. You'll need a tripod grill or other grilling rack for that. And how about the cast iron cook wear to go with it. Now while you're outside those zero gravity chairs sure look comfy. I'm guessing you'll end up with a patio mat or two, some awning lights, tablet cloth, maybe some bug lights? While your outside let's take a look around the 'ole camper itself add "stuff" that won't be on that "shipping weight" that you will need and most likely end up with.

Sewer hoses & connections, water hoses, regulator and filters, an electric shore power extension and several electrical adapters, an EMS, wheel chocks, leveling blocks. We haven't even touched on recreational stuff for the great outdoors. How about fishing rods/tackle ? Just want to relax and read a book, books are heavy. How about a bat, ball glove? Maybe a corn hole or other "toss" game?

Oops, need to go potty. Do you have plenty of tp? Don't want to run out! How about toilet chemicals? First aid kit? Need soaps and towels for everyone and while your at it pretty much take everything from your home medicine cabinet and towel storage with you. How about a nice comfy rug? Probably need a rug in front of the door to pick up the dirt. And when you see that matching throw and pillow for the couch, well you get the idea.

Like to sleep? Me to, linens for each bed and man those sheets and blankets can get heavy. How about clothes? Plan on a change of undies? How about shoes? Pillows? Mattress topper? Swimwear for the pool?

So this lengthy post is a list that's far from comprehensive but it's what I believe "most" campers end up with. The gear in your camper tends to accumulate. When most folks transfer their "stuff" from a camper that's several years old one of the most used phrases (after the swearing) is "I forgot I had that". Things get shoved into the dark hard to reach recesses and don't get pulled out. It's human nature. We are hunter gatherers. We "gather" so we have a meal if the hunt fails. This translates to "better pack raincoats incase it rains and hoodies in case it gets cold". This doesn't affect us "at home" as we don't think about the weight of things we place in it. The camper becomes an extension or for folks full timing their in fact home. Stuff goes into cabinets so there's no clutter so it's all good right? Wrong.

Again, this isn't personal to the OP but just taking the opportunity to point a few things out to anyone reading this thread and thinking that they will have the self discipline to "truly pack light". That long list above doesn't look "light to me". Don't let the "shiny bling" of that pretty new trailer blind you from trusting the numbers and the facts they represent. And BTW, the rig (truck & trailer) doesn't know if you are 2 miles or 2,000 miles from home. The only "real" difference would be which hospital you may end up in as a result of an accident.

Travel safe, control those things that are within your control. Controlling your desire to camp in that "big shiny new unit" over ignoring the safety of the family to achieve that goal IMO is the first and most important thing within your control.

JMHO, YMMV

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Not being argumentized but do those reading this thinking "So my truck's ratings are a few hundred pounds under with the trailer empty weight" and "we don't take that much".

If you currently own a camper and are looking to "upsize" I'd urge you to pay a visit to scale. See what your current unit weights vs the published shipping weight. I have yet to hear anyone using this argument that KNOWS how much weight they are currently carrying. Even better yet, pull EVERYTHING out that wasn't there when you bought it and set it on the ground. I'll think either way it will be an eye opener. We had several boats that we kept in a nearby marina for many years. They had a repair center and several times I would hear the service manager talking with an owner on the dock about the drop off in performance. They would tell the owner to unload everything from the boat onto the pier and they could go out together to test speed, time to get up on plane etc. Typically, about 2 hrs. later when the SM would return the owner would sheepishly say "never mind, I didn't realize we had that much stuff on board".

For folks that don't yet own a camper consider this... take some time and weight the items you plan on taking and that you WILL NEED.
Plan on eating? Ok then you'll need pots, pans, frypan, can opener, utensils for cooking like knives, spoons and ladels , baking pans, cookie sheet, coffee maker, toaster, slow cooker? The list goes on. Now go to your pantry at home and start recording the weights of the "staples" that will likely end up in the camper like pork & beans, cooking oil or sprays, pancake mix, sugar, coffee creamer, spices (yes, every little container add weight) , soups (make your own, great how about the soup stock, bullion cubes, whatever else in in it), maybe some canned corn or other vegetables? Now we haven't even addressed the groceries yet!

Go to the store and buy groceries as if you are going camping. You'll need enough food to feed your family, and whomever you anticipate visiting you, for the duration of your trip. Meats, fresh veggies and fruit, coffee, juice, milk, tea, soft drinks, adult beverages? How about snacks? If you're pacing for kids they love popcorn, cookies, chips, and don't forget the smore's!

Now chances are you'll buy some of those long sticks to make smore's over the fire. Want to cook over the fire? A lot of "first timers" go for the nostalgia of cooking over a campfire. You'll need a tripod grill or other grilling rack for that. And how about the cast iron cook wear to go with it. Now while you're outside those zero gravity chairs sure look comfy. I'm guessing you'll end up with a patio mat or two, some awning lights, tablet cloth, maybe some bug lights? While your outside let's take a look around the 'ole camper itself add "stuff" that won't be on that "shipping weight" that you will need and most likely end up with.

Sewer hoses & connections, water hoses, regulator and filters, an electric shore power extension and several electrical adapters, an EMS, wheel chocks, leveling blocks. We haven't even touched on recreational stuff for the great outdoors. How about fishing rods/tackle ? Just want to relax and read a book, books are heavy. How about a bat, ball glove? Maybe a corn hole or other "toss" game?

Oops, need to go potty. Do you have plenty of tp? Don't want to run out! How about toilet chemicals? First aid kit? Need soaps and towels for everyone and while your at it pretty much take everything from your home medicine cabinet and towel storage with you. How about a nice comfy rug? Probably need a rug in front of the door to pick up the dirt. And when you see that matching throw and pillow for the couch, well you get the idea.

Like to sleep? Me to, linens for each bed and man those sheets and blankets can get heavy. How about clothes? Plan on a change of undies? How about shoes? Pillows? Mattress topper? Swimwear for the pool?

So this lengthy post is a list that's far from comprehensive but it's what I believe "most" campers end up with. The gear in your camper tends to accumulate. When most folks transfer their "stuff" from a camper that's several years old one of the most used phrases (after the swearing) is "I forgot I had that". Things get shoved into the dark hard to reach recesses and don't get pulled out. It's human nature. We are hunter gatherers. We "gather" so we have a meal if the hunt fails. This translates to "better pack raincoats incase it rains and hoodies in case it gets cold". This doesn't affect us "at home" as we don't think about the weight of things we place in it. The camper becomes an extension or for folks full timing their in fact home. Stuff goes into cabinets so there's no clutter so it's all good right? Wrong.

Again, this isn't personal to the OP but just taking the opportunity to point a few things out to anyone reading this thread and thinking that they will have the self discipline to "truly pack light". That long list above doesn't look "light to me". Don't let the "shiny bling" of that pretty new trailer blind you from trusting the numbers and the facts they represent. And BTW, the rig (truck & trailer) doesn't know if you are 2 miles or 2,000 miles from home. The only "real" difference would be which hospital you may end up in as a result of an accident.

Travel safe, control those things that are within your control. Controlling your desire to camp in that "big shiny new unit" over ignoring the safety of the family to achieve that goal IMO is the first and most important thing within your control.

JMHO, YMMV

Regardless if how frugal either of you are there'll be lots of stuff loaded in that you'll never take out til you trade RVs again, this I'll quarntee. In a year, or less, you'll have it loaded to the max, maybe more, so the "we'll never load it full" theory is like New Years resolutions, good for about a week.
Make all your calculations from YOUR RVs GVWR & the payload of YOUR truck, not brochures or advertising, & remember the dry weight of any rv & the max tow rating of any truck are totally useless numbers when making these calculations when talking RVs.
Typically BHs & THs tend to be on the heavier side because more beds = more people = more stuff or more room = more toys = more weight.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Blueswede

I can't ever see the day when we have 2200 lbs. of stuff inside the trailer. My wife is very frugal and so am I when it comes to carrying stuff. We just wanted room for the stuff we normally carry instead of using the bunk beds as storage.
I know that the F350 has a tow capacity of 15,700 lbs. Seems like I"m somewhat under that....

The statement in red is "at best only half truth"...

The GCWR (combined truck trailer weight capacity) is 23,500 pounds and the truck GVWR is 11,400. Doing the "simple math", when the truck is loaded to GVWR, the maximum trailer can not weigh more than 12,100 pounds. (23500-11400=12100).

Looking at it another way, if the GCWR is 23100 and the trailer weighs 15700, then the truck can not weigh more than 7800 pounds. (23500-1500=7800)... NOTE that most 2011 F350 CC Diesel 4x4's weigh in excess of 8100 pounds when sitting empty with full fuel.

When you consider that the curb weight of a F350 4x4 6.7L diesel crewcab short bed "base model" (XL) truck is 7800 pounds, adding a hitch, passenger, 3 dogs and any cargo/tools/maps/floor mats will reduce that maximum trailer capacity even further. Most SuperDuty F350 diesel CC 4x4's weigh in at roughly 8100 pounds. So, the empty truck with only a 150 pound driver, is rated at 23500-8250=15250, and that's before you put a hitch in the bed to even connect the trailer.

I'm not trying to "bust your chops" with the above information, just simply saying that if you don't "weigh the rig as it sits ready to camp, fully loaded the way YOU use it" you may very well be exposing yourself to a civil suit in which you could lose everything you've worked your whole life to achieve.....

Don't "assume" (you know the meaning) that you will be OK because your truck is advertised by Ford as "big and bad" and your trailer is advertised by Keystone as "big and light"... DO THE MATH FOR YOURSELF .....

[nellie1289]

how does every thread that has a poor guy asking about what to expect with a fifth wheel, turn into the weight police every single time. I know you guys are just trying to help but OP already gets it.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by nellie1289

how does every thread that has a poor guy asking about what to expect with a fifth wheel, turn into the weight police every single time. I know you guys are just trying to help but OP already gets it.

"Any tips or advice is appreciated as this is our first 5th wheel..."

In answer to your question the above is a direct quote from the OP's initial post. That request would include anything weight related IMO.

Also the OP has a 2011 F350 which maxes out at about 12500 towing capability vs the 13,980gvw of the trailer. I didn't see payload for the truck but even the newer ones (up to 2020) don't have payloads that approach 4000lbs. with a diesel that I've seen. I primarily look at Rams but they aren't much different from a Ford - so I'm thinking the weight discussion is very relevant.

[flybouy]

What I don't understand is how you can say "Your F350 is plenty". You have no idea what his weighs, it's options, or what he has in it (extra fuel tank? Tool box? Fully optioned out or base model?) Nor do you know the actual weight of the trailer. IMHO endorsing a rig that in all probability will be very close to max payload or over without the complete information is irresponsible and sounds like the salesman that sells the trailer with a "you'll be fine" while turns and runs for the bank.

When I start reading the defensive "we pack light", "we only go close to home", or "we never travel with the tanks full" to me is a red flag that NO,THEY DON'T GET IT.