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Old 01-15-2021, 02:48 PM   #1
MaryKay2
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Cougar Toy Hauler ... looking for some info and feedback

I'm looking at the new Cougar Toy Hauler.
https://www.keystonerv.com/product/c...orplans/353SRX

https://www.rvtrader.com/Keystone-Co...353SRX%7C69919



I don't have a toy to haul but I want the space.
I currently have a 30' travel trailer, full time and boondock often.
I have a Ram 2500 6.4L 4:10 gears and 5th wheel prep. I knew I would upgrade sometime.

I like many things about this unit.
Not that hard core toy hauler look inside.
Doesn't have that drop down bed in the garage area.
Half Bath
Large holding tanks

A few minor items I don't like.
Window over the bed. In cold temps it helps to lose heat.
I would like a sit up straight seating area.

1. Does anyone here have this unit; what are your thoughts?

2. Price - It looks like the price is $60,000. What would you say is the negotiated out the door price?

3. Refrigerator and stove on the slide out - are there any problems with this set up?

I'm not in a hurry to buy.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-15-2021, 03:36 PM   #2
kfxgreenie
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Coming from a person who is not part of the weight police, quite frankly it is too big for your truck at a GVWR 16,400 LB's.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:07 PM   #3
sourdough
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Kfx was right; that trailer is out of the realm, by a long shot, of your truck so I would start looking at something else in the 10-12k gvw range (I've owned that truck). No need to parse the numbers that trailer is meant for a diesel dually. My truck (6.4/4.10/8 speed) has the payload (barely) to actually "carry" it BUT that 6.4 (owned multiple of them) CANNOT pull that much weight comfortably or without a "oh crap" moment when you shell the engine or tranny. And, what is the max tow number of that 3/4 ton? Maybe 12,500???? It won't be 16,400.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:22 PM   #4
MaryKay2
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Originally Posted by kfxgreenie View Post
Coming from a person who is not part of the weight police, quite frankly it is too big for your truck at a GVWR 16,400 LB's.
Thanks for getting this out of the way.
https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/tow...ing_charts.pdf

The limit for my truck is 15,630lbs. - payload 3,300

The Cougar info is:
11,442 dry
4,958 cargo
16,400 Total

2,425 hitch

210 propane
675 water - if full
300 food/clothes
300 tools/fluids/cleaning supplies
300 solar
215 misc
2,000 total

13,442 est total towing.

So, I think I'm good with what I plan.

But is you know a lighter unit similar with the qualities of the Cougar, please let me know.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:29 PM   #5
wiredgeorge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryKay2 View Post
Thanks for getting this out of the way.
https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/tow...ing_charts.pdf

The limit for my truck is 15,630lbs. - payload 3,300

The Cougar info is:
11,442 dry
4,958 cargo
16,400 Total

2,425 hitch

210 propane
675 water - if full
300 food/clothes
300 tools/fluids/cleaning supplies
300 solar
215 misc
2,000 total

13,442 est total towing.

So, I think I'm good with what I plan.

But is you know a lighter unit similar with the qualities of the Cougar, please let me know.
MaryKay2, The gross weight of that beast is 16,500 lbs. The hitch weight Keystone listed is a fantasy. It will be around 3800 lbs (23 percent of the gross weight of the trailer). You have 3300 payload capacity and by the time you add in passengers, hitch, whatever else is in the truck you will be at least a 1/2 ton over weight. You need a one ton dually to drag that toy hauler down the road and be safe.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryKay2 View Post
Thanks for getting this out of the way.
https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/tow...ing_charts.pdf

The limit for my truck is 15,630lbs. - payload 3,300

The Cougar info is:
11,442 dry
4,958 cargo
16,400 Total

2,425 hitch

210 propane
675 water - if full
300 food/clothes
300 tools/fluids/cleaning supplies
300 solar
215 misc
2,000 total

13,442 est total towing.

So, I think I'm good with what I plan.

But is you know a lighter unit similar with the qualities of the Cougar, please let me know.
You forgot one number wet pin at 22% is 2,957# on a payload of 3,300# from the yellow sticker?

343# is not a cushion, weigh your truck ready to tow and you will ring the 3,300# payload has shrunk.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
You forgot one number wet pin at 22% is 2,957# on a payload of 3,300# from the yellow sticker?

343# is not a cushion, weigh your truck ready to tow and you will ring the 3,300# payload has shrunk.
OK, you guys convinced me.

Do you know of a unit with the quality/interior design of the Cougar? I don't like the normal toy hauler interiors.

Thanks
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Old 01-15-2021, 05:12 PM   #8
sourdough
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MaryKay what do you currently pull with that truck? What experience do you have pulling a large RV with it? Might throw in the rest of the truck description; cab/bed length/trim level etc.

Your numbers are optimistic. Just as an example; you plan to boondock often...which requires holding water in the holding tanks, and, you will have to have water in the fresh water tank. Waste water capacity is 156 gals. (and they will get full boondocking) at 8lbs. gal = 1248 lbs. If you have water in the fresh tank (and you will) figure say 20 gals. by the time you leave = 160lbs. Total for water 1408. For starters...

You list 600lbs. for everything in the trailer. You possibly could do that but not realistically in my experience. Tools = 2-300lbs.(tool box with requisite tools/impacts/compressors/hoses/shop vac/spare parts/etc. etc. etc.) Food = 150 minimum (you ARE boondocking and not next to Walmart). Clothes = I don't know how many of you there are but I do know boondocking, which I've done a tremendous amount of, requires a LOT of stuff depending on the activities enjoyed so = 250 min. Misc. will be a LOT of stuff = 500.

Point is that your estimates are unrealistically optimistic. You have forgotten the load in the truck, people, hitch, tools etc. The list goes on. Being unrealistically optimistic is fine if you have the truck that would give you that latitude; a 3/4 ton gas truck doesn't start to do that in this situation.

So; figure closer to 15k loaded weight (if you are lucky). You then have 3000-3150 pin weight (20-21%). Now you are almost at your max payload (was the 3300 from the door or an advertisement?). Now you need to put the folks, misc., hitch, puppy, snacks, running boards, boxes, cables, extra shoes, purse etc. inside the truck and add that up. And then.....you should have a 10% safety cushion IMO below your max payload.

As you can see the truck is not up for the job. The only way it is is to try to rationalize it using unrealistic numbers. I've owned these trucks. Your 3/4 ton has coil springs in the back that are going to wander with that much weight because they shouldn't have to support it....nor were they meant to. No matter what you think, that engine and tranny combo aren't up to pulling 14-15k around the country acceptably. Can you MAKE it with no regard for performance, safety or longevity? Yes. Is it wise? Not at all.

Edit: MaryKay spent a bit composing, posted and saw your last post so it's a little bit late after your decision. I'm very glad you came to it.
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Old 01-15-2021, 05:16 PM   #9
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OK, you guys convinced me.

Do you know of a unit with the quality/interior design of the Cougar? I don't like the normal toy hauler interiors.

Thanks

What exactly are you looking for in the interior? Kitchen, living room, bedroom preferences? I personally like the Cougar line myself. How do you intend to use it and what functionalities are the most important? You said you don't have "toys" but want space; can you expound?
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Old 01-15-2021, 05:21 PM   #10
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It may seem drastic but if you have your heart set on ANY fifth wheel toy hauler then I would just start looking for a different truck.I just went through this with a regular fifth wheel. I know you said you wanted it for the extra room but what if someone talks you into filling that garage up with atvís or motorcycles for a trip or two and you could easily go way over your safe weights. Maybe go for a smaller trailer pull toy hauler. Whatever you get you want to be able to enjoy it and not have to weigh every little thing you put into it just to stay under your numbers. And donít feel bad..at least once a month someone comes on the forum with overweight combinations( myself included) at least you havenít bought yours yet.
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Old 01-15-2021, 06:08 PM   #11
MaryKay2
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Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
What exactly are you looking for in the interior? Kitchen, living room, bedroom preferences? I personally like the Cougar line myself. How do you intend to use it and what functionalities are the most important? You said you don't have "toys" but want space; can you expound?
I full time, so I don't want an ugly interrior that you get in most toy haulers. I want the garage for exercise and the patio section.

I have a Outdoors Mfg TT with a nice interior.
This is nice but it has a lot of what I don't want - expensive generator (I have one), bed that lifts, 2 sofas in the garage that lift. I would like a wall between the garage and the living area.
https://outdoorsrvmfg.com/trail-series-27trx-2/
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Old 01-16-2021, 08:42 AM   #12
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You need something like they use to build.

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2015-...326srx-tr21138
https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2015-...326srx-tr21138
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:10 AM   #13
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The pin weight for that camper is 2865 or so. Perhaps if you had an Anderson Ultimate hitch and put little in your truck you would be OK. Again, Keystone is in fantasy land with their pin weight.
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:13 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by MaryKay2 View Post
I full time, so I don't want an ugly interrior that you get in most toy haulers. I want the garage for exercise and the patio section.

I have a Outdoors Mfg TT with a nice interior.
This is nice but it has a lot of what I don't want - expensive generator (I have one), bed that lifts, 2 sofas in the garage that lift. I would like a wall between the garage and the living area.
https://outdoorsrvmfg.com/trail-series-27trx-2/
You stated you plan to boondock, but you now have a generator you don't need, how then do you plan to power electrical devices & keep the batteries charged?
Not to rain on your parade further, but you don't have enough truck for that toyhauler!!
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:28 AM   #15
MaryKay2
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You stated you plan to boondock, but you now have a generator you don't need, how then do you plan to power electrical devices & keep the batteries charged?
Not to rain on your parade further, but you don't have enough truck for that toyhauler!!
I have a generator. The TT I quoted has a generator included.
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:30 AM   #16
MaryKay2
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Yes, that would be it. Why did the new model have to get so heavy!
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:47 AM   #17
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The pin weight for that camper is 2865 or so. Perhaps if you had an Anderson Ultimate hitch and put little in your truck you would be OK. Again, Keystone is in fantasy land with their pin weight.
All i will say is the rear axle will handle it, the Hemi will handle it, but it will be giving a fairly good workout on hills.

I pull that excavator which is 12500# with a 2600# trailer on that truck which is 100% fully legal including payload, but let me tell you she does scream. That is the price you pay to avoid the tax man.

Now on the other hand I pull our 12,000 cougar with a 2500 diesel CC and it is over payload.

One is completely comfortable to pull and the other one needs a lot more attention given. One is "illegal" one is legal guess which one is comfortable to pull?
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Old 01-16-2021, 10:16 AM   #18
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Yes, that would be it. Why did the new model have to get so heavy!
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/201...SRX-5015009325

This thing looks almost new, a little overpriced IMO, but that is the market right now. Might be worth the look.
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Old 01-21-2021, 09:44 AM   #19
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All i will say is the rear axle will handle it, the Hemi will handle it, but it will be giving a fairly good workout on hills...I pull our 12,000 cougar with a 2500 diesel CC and it is over payload...One is "illegal" one is legal guess which one is comfortable to pull?
Just to be sure I understand, based on your experience, you are recommending to this new member that the "illegal" course of action is the right thing to do?
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