Tow Vehicle Capability

[jmgreer1]

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death so I apologize. The wife wants a TT and I've been researching/reading/racking my brain to educate myself on this entirely new world. We've got some TT choices but still need to personally walk in them to make sure it's what we want. Before I get too deep, I'm looking for confirmation my tow vehicle is capable of pulling such rigs.

I have a 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 outfitted with some factory add-ons. The particulars as follows:

GVWR: 7,200
Max Payload: 1,542
Max Trailer Weight: 10,800
GCWR: 16,700
Max Tongue Weight (with WDH): 1,250

The TT we are looking at are all mid-6,000's dry. I know I'll be at the upper end of the capacity, but would you say I am too ambitious??

TIA,
JG

[jsb5717]

Welcome aboard! And thanks for taking the time to ask this important question.

Can you tell us which trailer, specifically, you are looking at? The weight that matters for calculation is the trailer GVWR. Approx 10-15% of that weight can be used to calc pin weight.

You might be OK given the numbers you've given but more detail will help button it down.

[jmgreer1]

Originally Posted by jsb5717

Welcome aboard! And thanks for taking the time to ask this important question.

Can you tell us which trailer, specifically, you are looking at? The weight that matters for calculation is the trailer GVWR. Approx 10-15% of that weight can be used to calc pin weight.

You might be OK given the numbers you've given but more detail will help button it down.

Specifically, we like the Outback 291UBH. The Keystone specs claim 6,600 dry with trailer capacity of 1,600. They also claim a tongue weight of 655.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by jmgreer1

Specifically, we like the Outback 291UBH. The Keystone specs claim 6,600 dry with trailer capacity of 1,600. They also claim a tongue weight of 655.

You are looking at a 8000 lb plus camper when actually set up to camp. Your tongue weight will be in the neighborhood of 1000 lbs. Your payload is 1500 lbs so keep your cargo and passengers in the truck to 500 lbs and you will be at the limit of what you can safely drag down the road. Another important factor is that most anything over 25 ft long will be a chore with a 1/2 ton. Some smarter folks have come up with better numbers but if you get a 30' camper it will be wiggling all over behind you and your 1/2 ton won't be a happy drive as it will be pushing. If your missus is wanting a camper and as most gals do, like what they see in bigger campers, well have her OK a more capable tow vehicle.

[bbells]

My experience offers a simple answer. If you want a comfortable tow, get a trailer that has a loaded weight 1/2 of your truck's tow capacity. Plus, spend the extra money to get a better wd hitch with sway control built in. Your drive will be more comfortable. Better gas mileage. Easier to park. I went from a 26ft to an 18ft with my half ton and I now enjoy the trip.

[bbells]

Originally Posted by bbells

My experience offers a simple answer. If you want a comfortable tow, get a trailer that has a loaded weight 1/2 of your truck's tow capacity. Plus, spend the extra money to get a better wd hitch with sway control built in. Your drive will be more comfortable. Better gas mileage. Easier to park. I went from a 26ft to an 18ft with my half ton and I now enjoy the trip.

Oh, remember kids love tenting it while you are in the RV.

[mjsibe]

Often overlooked are Chevy or GMC Full size Passenger vans.
I tow a Passport 3100Rk
I think the GVW on the trailer is 7400.
( it's covered now)
My 2014 Express 3500 Passenger van 6.0 gas
Payload is 3342 lbs.
Tow compasity 9700 lbs.
Ball Park 1k hitch weight fully loaded.
Something to think about with a few kids & there stuff
Combined GVW 16000 LBS.
Maxed out for a 6 week trip truck scales had me @ 13756 lbs.
Well with in the comfort zone

[jxnbbl]

First the most valuable resource on this topic was to watch the following video:


https://www.keepyourdaydream.com/payload/


From my perspective I've towed trailers (boats and large snowmobile/utility) my entire life, but never owned an TT. And we set out and bought a TT early fall for the first time. I did the research prior to pulling the trigger with our 2016 ram ecodiesel at the TV option. We eliminated trailers anything above 5500/7500ish dry/gross and 700 hitch.


We were buying this for long term use with grandchildren (bunks) + fold out for their parents and us. Short term we wanted this for our first/only (maybe) 3800 rt mile to our son's wedding. We would have eliminated what you are looking at and had VERY limited selection due to inventory but luckily found a Bullet 273bhs which seems to fall into the ballpark of what you are looking for. It is a bit smaller, but probably due to the lack of outdoor kitchen and bunk house instead of bunks with curtains it is lighter than just being a bit shorter.


We bought it pulled it a number of miles in the NH White Mountains (where we live) so that I could get use to handling it. The combination was fine and if 1. our first trip wasn't 3800 miles RT, 2. our long term use probably will be only longer trips with grandchildren (we live in a vacation area) 3. didn't want to be counting pounds especially when bringing a couple of extra people in the tow vehicle and maybe the entire groups luggage in the TT 4. it was about family (easy to convince my wife) 5. was somewhat in the market for a new truck. We decided to get a larger truck.


Next came the availability thing AGAIN -it wasn't easy to find a 1 ton and pretty difficult to find a 3/4 ton that we wanted (we wanted a Cummins diesel). Due to covid/various reasons it created a supply/demand thing that it was hard to work a deal on anything. We ended up with a Ram 2500 Cummings Crew Cab and its a great package. My "one an done" wife is hooked and our next trip will be a 'long trip to nowhere' (no plans wake up and just plan 1 day at a time).


Anyways, i ended up with the new truck but if you go through that video it would have been a prerequisite if the target purchase was the TT that you are looking at.

[Northofu1]

Hello and to the forum
Don't look at dry weights. Figure out how much weight you're going to put in the truck before hitching up and go from there.
Should be about 13% tongue weight of trailer gvwr. Just because you can max out doesn't mean you should.
Good luck

[jmgreer1]

Originally Posted by Northofu1

Hello and to the forum
Don't look at dry weights. Figure out how much weight you're going to put in the truck before hitching up and go from there.
Should be about 13% tongue weight of trailer gvwr. Just because you can max out doesn't mean you should.
Good luck

Exactly. I don't want to max out and sacrifice safety for a bigger rig.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jmgreer1

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death so I apologize. The wife wants a TT and I've been researching/reading/racking my brain to educate myself on this entirely new world. We've got some TT choices but still need to personally walk in them to make sure it's what we want. Before I get too deep, I'm looking for confirmation my tow vehicle is capable of pulling such rigs.

I have a 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 outfitted with some factory add-ons. The particulars as follows:

GVWR: 7,200
Max Payload: 1,542
Max Trailer Weight: 10,800
GCWR: 16,700
Max Tongue Weight (with WDH): 1,250

The TT we are looking at are all mid-6,000's dry. I know I'll be at the upper end of the capacity, but would you say I am too ambitious??

TIA,
JG

Yes it's been discussed ad nauseum.

Let's go over the important number Max Payload. That' you say is 1,250. IF that's the correct number from the yellow sticker on the door then that's the max when the truck left the factory. Subtract any and all added equipment such as light bars, running boards, tonneau cover, bed liner, mud flaps,floor mats, infant car seats, change in the cupholder, stuff ion the glovebox, tool box, tools, etc. Then subtract the weight of occupants (include the dog if you have one) and anything you might take along for the trip like snakes, drinks, toy for a kid, etc. Now that number also won't include the WDH (weight distributing hitch) say 110 lbs.

Now the trailer. Any "mid 6K trailer empty will end up around 7- 7,500 lbs when loaded. Those empty weights don't include dealer installed battery, LP tanks, spare tire, or any of the "essential" items to use the camper like a water hose, waste dump hose, levelers or leveling blocks, water or wastewater. It also doesn't include stuff you will need like food, drinks, clothes, linens for the beds, towels, pots pans, plates, cups, coffee pot, toilet paper, toothpaste & brush, soap, shampoo, first aid kit, toys, and the list goes on.

The "standard: tongue weight for travel trailers is calculated using 10-15% of the trailer weight. Most folks use 13% as a "best guess". Since you don't have the trailer weight and can only get a true weight by driving it on a scale use the Gross trailer weight to be safe. So with your hypothetical mid 6K that's really going to end up closer to mid 7K use 7,500 X .13= 975 lbs. Add the 110 for a WDH and you're looking at a hitch weight of 1,085 lbs of your 1,250 lbs. used up before you lay your hand on the truck. I'll bet that you likely have more than the 165 lbs. of remaining payload in stuff in your truck right now.

A 1/2 ton truck is not made to haul that much weight. There's a difference between pulling and carrying a load. The max trailer weight doesn't translate to hauling a travel trailer. That number is only useful if you are pulling a hay wagon or a flatbed trailer full of lumber with very little weight on the tongue.

With such limited payload you are realistically looking at about a 5,000 lb GVW travel trailer.

[jmgreer1]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Yes it's been discussed ad nauseum.

Let's go over the important number Max Payload. That' you say is 1,250. IF that's the correct number from the yellow sticker on the door then that's the max when the truck left the factory. Subtract any and all added equipment such as light bars, running boards, tonneau cover, bed liner, mud flaps,floor mats, infant car seats, change in the cupholder, stuff ion the glovebox, tool box, tools, etc. Then subtract the weight of occupants (include the dog if you have one) and anything you might take along for the trip like snakes, drinks, toy for a kid, etc. Now that number also won't include the WDH (weight distributing hitch) say 110 lbs.

Now the trailer. Any "mid 6K trailer empty will end up around 7- 7,500 lbs when loaded. Those empty weights don't include dealer installed battery, LP tanks, spare tire, or any of the "essential" items to use the camper like a water hose, waste dump hose, levelers or leveling blocks, water or wastewater. It also doesn't include stuff you will need like food, drinks, clothes, linens for the beds, towels, pots pans, plates, cups, coffee pot, toilet paper, toothpaste & brush, soap, shampoo, first aid kit, toys, and the list goes on.

The "standard: tongue weight for travel trailers is calculated using 10-15% of the trailer weight. Most folks use 13% as a "best guess". Since you don't have the trailer weight and can only get a true weight by driving it on a scale use the Gross trailer weight to be safe. So with your hypothetical mid 6K that's really going to end up closer to mid 7K use 7,500 X .13= 975 lbs. Add the 110 for a WDH and you're looking at a hitch weight of 1,085 lbs of your 1,250 lbs. used up before you lay your hand on the truck. I'll bet that you likely have more than the 165 lbs. of remaining payload in stuff in your truck right now.

A 1/2 ton truck is not made to haul that much weight. There's a difference between pulling and carrying a load. The max trailer weight doesn't translate to hauling a travel trailer. That number is only useful if you are pulling a hay wagon or a flatbed trailer full of lumber with very little weight on the tongue.

With such limited payload you are realistically looking at about a 5,000 lb GVW travel trailer.

I appreciate the comments, albeit, not the ones I would prefer. I hoped for more and I'm surprised at the estimations on the weight of gear brought along in the truck and TT. Jumping up to 3/4 ton truck more than doubles payload capacity, which seems to be the most limiting factor. I was hoping to make do with what I already have.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by jmgreer1

I appreciate the comments, albeit, not the ones I would prefer. I hoped for more and I'm surprised at the estimations on the weight of gear brought along in the truck and TT. Jumping up to 3/4 ton truck more than doubles payload capacity, which seems to be the most limiting factor. I was hoping to make do with what I already have.

When we go to an RV show (a pre Covid thing as I recall) my wife is always drawn to the 44' fifth wheels with two bath rooms and the front living room. How good the ergonomics of a trailer is is more or less proportional to the room in the trailer. That is why my wife feels an affinity for the big trailers. Of course the floor plan and lay out are also a big factor but there is only so much that can be done with a 19' trailer and add a few more feet, even more can be done. If you folks are serious about camping, perhaps buy used for the first trailer to get a better idea of what is really important and if not used but new, then get a truck that meets the minimum ergonomics that you and your spouse are comfortable with. For my wife and myself as once a month campers about 30' fifth wheel is right as it meets our minimum needs. Yours will obviously be different. Also consider where you will be camping as in Texas two AC units are more or less a must in triple digit temps.

[jmgreer1]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

When we go to an RV show (a pre Covid thing as I recall) my wife is always drawn to the 44' fifth wheels with two bath rooms and the front living room. How good the ergonomics of a trailer is is more or less proportional to the room in the trailer. That is why my wife feels an affinity for the big trailers. Of course the floor plan and lay out are also a big factor but there is only so much that can be done with a 19' trailer and add a few more feet, even more can be done. If you folks are serious about camping, perhaps buy used for the first trailer to get a better idea of what is really important and if not used but new, then get a truck that meets the minimum ergonomics that you and your spouse are comfortable with. For my wife and myself as once a month campers about 30' fifth wheel is right as it meets our minimum needs. Yours will obviously be different. Also consider where you will be camping as in Texas two AC units are more or less a must in triple digit temps.

Campers would be myself, wife, and two children (11,6) so we are drawn to the bunkhouse models. We live in south MS and are familiar with high temps (plus humidity) so 2 A/C units are a must. The trips we would like to take could take us anywhere from SW USA to NE USA, but we have yet to take a trip still...

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jmgreer1

Campers would be myself, wife, and two children (11,6) so we are drawn to the bunkhouse models. We live in south MS and are familiar with high temps (plus humidity) so 2 A/C units are a must. The trips we would like to take could take us anywhere from SW USA to NE USA, but we have yet to take a trip still...

You have things to think about and consider for sure. Don't be fooled by the 3/4 ton capacity unless you really look into it. Most diesel 3/4 ton trucks don't have much more payload than some 1/2 tons. It depends on configuration, i.e. crew cab, super cab, single cab, 4 WD or 2 WD and trim levels all effect payload.

If you are seriously considering upgrading your truck I'd suggest considering a 1 ton. Not much more money and with kids that age they will dpo nothing but grow and want to bring along friends and more toys. With a 1 ton you have the capacity to grow into a fifth wheel without chasing another truck right away.

Asking the questions, and not being angry at the answers are the right direction. No one will have a good time if the trailers pushing the truck around and you're on edge driving a "white knuckle" handful dreading every truck that passes by and pushes you toward the shoulder then sucks you back into the next lane. Many of us here have BTGT.

Good luck in your new adventures and stay safe.

[Marke]

Originally Posted by jmgreer1

Campers would be myself, wife, and two children (11,6) so we are drawn to the bunkhouse models. We live in south MS and are familiar with high temps (plus humidity) so 2 A/C units are a must. The trips we would like to take could take us anywhere from SW USA to NE USA, but we have yet to take a trip still...

Hello from a fellow south Mississippian.

[Gunny Mike]

We full timed in the Dallas area for thee years and we just had one AC unit. Having two AC units is definitely a must during the summer if their is no shade.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Gunny Mike

We full timed in the Dallas area for thee years and we just had one AC unit. Having two AC units is definitely a must during the summer if their is no shade.

Would never purchase any rv over 24' without 2 acs, one is NOT enough if camping in high temps.

[wiredgeorge]

Read what he said again... he said his payload is 1542 and his max tongue weight is 1250 lbs with a weight distribution hitch. I don't really follow that at all; is that some number from the hitch? I seem him right at his upper edge weight wise either way.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Read what he said again... he said his payload is 1542 and his max tongue weight is 1250 lbs with a weight distribution hitch. I don't really follow that at all; is that some number from the hitch? I seem him right at his upper edge weight wise either way.

My bad for mixing that up but it really won't m,uch matter. He'll be at or over either way.

The best thing to do is load it up as if your going camping (load up the DW, kids, dog, food, ise chest, etc.) fill up the gas tank and throw the wdh in the bed of the truck and go to a CAT scale and weight the truck. Take the weight of the truck from the scale slip and subtract that number from your 7,200 lb GVW. That will be your remaining payload. You'll find that payload number will shrink amazingly fast.