Max turn technology. ? With a short bed

PauliWalnuts · 07-29-2022, 04:01 PM

I have a very specific question that I would like answered. I just read through a 5 page thread that attempted to answer the same question. That question is

Do you need a slider hitch to tow with a keystone 5er with Max Turn Technology without a slider hitch? Can you get close to 90 degrees? I realize that getting to 90 degrees is very hard on suspension and would never get to that point but also don't want to inadvertently damage the RV and/or truck because I was in a tight spot and went over the limit.

THIS IS NOT A WEIGHT DISCUSSION IT IS A CLEARANCE DISCUSSION. Please stay on topic so that i and others can learn about what hitches and/or pin boxes may be necessary.

**sourdough** · 07-29-2022, 04:19 PM

I don't know what the 5 page thread was about but every truck, truck bed and hitch will vary. You seem to be looking for a black/white, quick answer if a truck can make a 90 degree turn and not damage something....maybe, maybe not depending on truck, trailer, hitch etc. If you are thinking you're going to be turning tight enough to worry about truck cab, bed rail clearances etc. while making tight turns you might want to look into better routing or ??

I use an Andersen in a short bed truck with zero problems. It is not a slider and I don't/wouldn't want one. I don't concern myself with the ability to push my trailer sideways at 90 degrees to see which suspension component breaks. I've hooked up and pushed it as far as I want to and about 75-80 degrees my tires start pushing dirt, not turning (on dirt). Now, what was that TV and pin weight?

PauliWalnuts · 07-29-2022, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

I don't know what the 5 page thread was about but every truck, truck bed and hitch will vary. You seem to be looking for a black/white, quick answer if a truck can make a 90 degree turn and not damage something....maybe, maybe not depending on truck, trailer, hitch etc. If you are thinking you're going to be turning tight enough to worry about truck cab, bed rail clearances etc. while making tight turns you might want to look into better routing or ??

I use an Andersen in a short bed truck with zero problems. It is not a slider and I don't/wouldn't want one. I don't concern myself with the ability to push my trailer sideways at 90 degrees to see which suspension component breaks. I've hooked up and pushed it as far as I want to and about 75-80 degrees my tires start pushing dirt, not turning (on dirt). Now, what was that TV and pin weight?

It was a thread that was about a year ago and ultimately closed. It is a Ford F250. Considering a couple Keystones with the Max Turn Technology. You read or talk to some hitch people and they swear if you have a short bed you either need a slider hitch or a rotating pin box. I don't want either. I want to be able to take the hitch out of the bed without requiring a hoist. I am considering a BW Companion that comes in 2 pieces that are about 75 lbs each which I can manage. I don't want the rotating pin box because they are heavy and might have warranty issues if there is a frame failure. I am also leery of the light weight hitches such as the anderson because most require a goose ball and from what I understand that would void the frame warranty.

If I can get 75 or 80 degrees that should be good hell anything over 60 should be good. I have a 30 ft travel trailer and have no issues and you can't get that far with the TT so shouldn't be an issue.

**sourdough** · 07-29-2022, 04:51 PM

As for the warranty issue have you looked into a Reese GooseBox? I've read different things about it and clearances and a short bed might pose a problem but I don't know. Maybe someone with one will chime in. If my Andersen wasn't within the time frame for warranty coverage I would have looked at that, the Companion or Demco Recon.

**chuckster57** · 07-29-2022, 05:37 PM

I have a saying that has worked very well in many decisions- it’s better to have it and never need it than to need it and not have it.

I have always had long beds so turning/clearance has never been an issue. As a tech I have seen lots of short beds with different types of hitches. What I would do is find the center line of your bed and 2” in front of the rear axle as that is the most common spot for the kingpin.

Measure from that point to the cab and corners. Then when you find a potential fifth wheel, take the tape and hold it on the king pin and simply walk and see if it will hit.

PauliWalnuts · 07-29-2022, 06:33 PM

I think I have 3 options

1. Reese Goosebox
Pros
I can install a BW turnover ball and use a 4" extender and from what i can
tell from other posters will give me 80+ degree turning which is more than
I would prob feel comfortable with. Also provides some cushion for
Chucking as well as empty bed with no adaptor/hitch, easy to get clean bed
Easier install as I don't need to take the bed off
Cons
More difficult to connect. I would need to add a bed camera or have a
spotter. You would also need to have an air compresser to pump it up

2. BW Companion hitch with factory puck system
Pros
BW is the standard in hitches. I can get it out easily as it breaks down
to 2 pieces ~75 lbs each. Easier connection.
Cons
Have to remove bed to install puck system. Might not get full 80+ degree
maneuverability, but I could add a swivel hitch, but those are expensive.
3. Slider Hitch
Pros
Will provide full 90 degree turn maneuverability. Can instaall turnover
ball which won't require bed removal
Cons
Very heavy requiring a hoist to remove from the truck to get clean bed

I am leaning toward option 2. Seems like the most secure and is tried and true. The only issue is if I can't get the maneuverability I will need to add a rotating hitch, but I think I will be good. I will do the measurements once we decide which 5er to get. I just want to make sure what I want before i sign, I don't want some RV salesman telling me what I want.

**chuckster57** · 07-29-2022, 06:42 PM

Are you sure you need to remove the bed to install the puck system?

PauliWalnuts · 07-29-2022, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Are you sure you need to remove the bed to install the puck system?

Every video I have seen that is what they have done. It actually doesn't look that difficult. At a minimum you would have to lift it off the bed and not sure you could get the clearance as the hitch is pretty sizeable and heavy and be a real PITA to get it installed. If I do end up taking the bed off, I will probably also add onboard air.

RollaMo · 07-29-2022, 06:51 PM

This is one of those questions where you will never get a definite yes or no answer.

I have never really understood the whole 90 degree turn requirement that some want.
With a bumper pull trailer you can't even come close to that, so why would it be needed in with 5er?

I have a 2019 GMC 2500 double cab ( 6 1/2 ft bed).
Pulling a 2022 Cougar half ton 24RDS.
Using a B&W companion hitch.

I haven't had any issues of even getting close to any clearance issues.
Of course I haven't really tried a 90 degree turn, but then again I don't see the need for it either.
I can turn it as sharp as I ever need without issues.

RollaMo · 07-29-2022, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PauliWalnuts

Every video I have seen that is what they have done. It actually doesn't look that difficult. At a minimum you would have to lift it off the bed and not sure you could get the clearance as the hitch is pretty sizeable and heavy and be a real PITA to get it installed. If I do end up taking the bed off, I will probably also add onboard air.

No, you don't have to remove the bed.
They just undo the bolts on one side, and lift that side up a little.
Just enough to get the underside hardware installed.

**JRTJH** · 07-29-2022, 07:37 PM

Which truck you have has as much to do with "cab/trailer clearance" as the hitch does. Why do I say that? All fifth wheel hitches are mounted "a specific distance from the rear of the bed"... So, any variance in bed length will be "in front of the hitch"... That's the space where clearance is required to prevent cab/trailer contact....

Here's the 2022 bed length for the three "3/4 and 1 ton manufacturers":

GM short bed length: 81.6" and 82.8"
Ford short bed length: 81.6"
RAM short bed length: 76.8"

Now, when you get "right down to hitting the cab or not hitting the cab" there's a heck of a lot more than "being on flat ground with a specific hitch"

If you're backing up an incline you may "hit the cab" at a much straighter angle than if you're on level ground. And, no matter which hitch you buy, if you're pulling "down an incline around a corner" (truck nose going downhill while the trailer is flat and level) you may contact the bed rails or the tail gate, regardless of the hitch type installed.

All that said, it's not intended to confuse you about hitches, but rather to support a previous post that EVERY truck and trailer and situation will be different. There is no "buy this hitch and you'll be OK and never hit the cab"... Keep in mind that even if you can get to 90 degrees with a sliding hitch, depending on the truck and trailer, you may hit the sides of the truck with the front "underhang" on the trailer, even though the cap is safely clear of the truck cab.....

As you can see by the measurements above, there's 5 or 6 inches more "clearance with a GM or Ford than with a RAM short bed, so the truck brand has as much to do with whether you'll hit the cab in certain situations as does the trailer cap design and which hitch is installed.

jsb5717 · 07-29-2022, 08:18 PM

I’ve towed 5ers with short bed trucks for well over 20 years. Earlier 5ers didn’t have the tight turn caps on them. Still, I’ve never hit my truck in tight turns.

The real issue is you, your ability, and your confidence. The fact is that it is possible to hit the cab of a short bed truck using a standard hitch. It’s up to you to pay attention and know your limits. You don’t need a slider to tow successfully. If you want a stronger guarantee that you won’t ever hit then get the slider.

I have a B&W turnover ball and use a Demco Recon hitch. I have plenty of turning ability.

sierraman68 · 07-29-2022, 09:34 PM

I have a 2020 Ford F250 short bed and use the Demo Recon with zero issues. I will say that I am always aware of clearance between the cab and the 5er while backing up and I have yet to be in a situation that even begins to concern me. The Recon mounts over a goose ball and is a bit lighter weight than the BW Companion but still has a 21K towing capacity. It is very easy to seperate into two parts for installation and removal. I am glad I did not spend the money on or add the extra weight of a slider.

PauliWalnuts · 07-30-2022, 02:27 AM

Thanks for all the replies. I am still going to do some measurements but I think I am going to go with the factory puck system and the BW Companion, but will also look at the Demco Recon. I actually had only looked at their slider.

bsmith0404 · 07-30-2022, 07:02 AM

I have the factory puck system with a GM truck. Currently use the Pullrite 2600 for my 5th wheel, but have pulled several others using a Curt hitch that connects into the pucks with a husky adapter. Have never hit the cab and have been in some pretty tight turns. Is it possible, I would say it is, but just need to keep an eye on it. I towed older 5ers with a standard hitch on rails for several years and never hit the cab. I’ve also seen people hit the cab using an Andersen. Didn’t quite understand that since it give the additional offset, they must have really been cutting it short.

HouseMouse · 07-30-2022, 07:10 AM

Something different...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpwH9WeVEfU

jasin1 · 07-30-2022, 07:12 AM

this is with a goosebox and ram 6 foot bed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-7Xu7S1nA8

Camping family · 07-30-2022, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

Are you sure you need to remove the bed to install the puck system?

I ordered my new f350 and the factory didn’t install the puck system had to be done by the dealership and yes they had to remove the bed to install it. The brackets for the system have to be bolted to the frame under the bed and in order to get to the location the bed has to be removed.

Camping family · 07-30-2022, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PauliWalnuts

I have a very specific question that I would like answered. I just read through a 5 page thread that attempted to answer the same question. That question is

Do you need a slider hitch to tow with a keystone 5er with Max Turn Technology without a slider hitch? Can you get close to 90 degrees? I realize that getting to 90 degrees is very hard on suspension and would never get to that point but also don't want to inadvertently damage the RV and/or truck because I was in a tight spot and went over the limit.

THIS IS NOT A WEIGHT DISCUSSION IT IS A CLEARANCE DISCUSSION. Please stay on topic so that i and others can learn about what hitches and/or pin boxes may be necessary.

I have a short bed with a slider pull right. Reason I got the slider is for pice of mind. If needed I have it if never used while I don’t worry have it if needed. One of those things I would rather have and not need then need and not have.

bsmith0404 · 07-30-2022, 07:31 AM

I recently (about two months ago) installed a B&W turnover ball in a 2021 F250, did. It have to pull the box. Some of the bolts were difficult, but I didn’t see a reason to pull the box to do it. Install was about 3 hours. It helps to have an extra set of hands as well.

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