Tricky, GFCI working, other outlets aren't...

[Sam75462001]

Hello everyone,
(2018 Keystone Raptor 426TS 50amp shore power currently)
Been full-timing it on base during retirement transition and learning a lot. Reaching out for some knowledge. Recently had an interesting issue... My fridge, (NORCOLD model 2118), sent a "No AC" code and typically would trip the GFCI. Usually from running the instapot on the island and the air purifier or something in the bathroom GFCI. This time we had the instapot and air purifier plugged in at the same time at the island. Got the alarm so I unplugged both and switched to LP to keep the fridge cold. Did the following with no joy:

-Read through these forums; found and tried a few good ones with similar issues.... WAS leaning toward a loose wire thread, no more after the update.
-Checked the GFCI- it was not tripped and still had power, hit the test/reset button anyways. (pictured below)
-Went to the circuit breaker and checked, the breaker was not tripped, cycled it anyways to check and still no joy. (pictured below)
-Took off the back panel on the fridge and checked the F3 amp fuse and it was still good.
-Checked each outlet in the RV and looked over it all to try to find a hidden GFCI in the line that would be the issue, nothing found.
-Each outlet was dry and did not have any moisture from rain, spills, condensation, etc...
-Went as far as disconnecting all power and cycling everything, even checked the surge protector at shore power and all was good.

What I have found; (pictured below) the outlet in the basement, outside, island, table, and fridge are not working. What is odd is the GFCI outlet in the bathroom has power and so does the one next to it that is GFI. The rest in line that typically are out when the GFCI trips are out.

Wanted to reach out to get feedback or suggestions before I start taking each outlet apart and check/update wiring. Probably going to run to home depot and get a replacement GFCI prior to getting to work.

***UPDATE #1***
Took apart each outlet, wiring looked fine, nothing burnt, loose or unattached. Keep coming back to the main GFCI in master bath. It has power and when I press the test button, only a red light shows (pictured below). Leads me to believe that the GFCI outlet is bad.

Intend to head to home depot and get a 15amp replacement. Gonna look into the threads to see how to replace it with the way this GFCI is wired...(pictured below)

***UPDATE #2***
Replaced the GFCI, still no joy on the outlets.

Anyone have insight as to what else could possibly be the issue??

***UPDATE #3 ISSUE RESOLVED!***

Issue resolved!! Thanks to the suggestions to buy the GFCI tester, I got the code “open neutral at the fridge outlet. Checked each one and said the same. I did find that one of the outlets, the island outlet, had 3 sets of wires. That was one of the issues, the wires in that crummy blade RV outlet set up had come loose and was difficult to see because it was tucked between two others and was no longer making contact.
However, the first issue I resolved was the outside outlet had the bottom white wires burnt. I added a picture after I removed the outlet to show how hard it was to see. After replacing that outlet, I tested the outlets again and had the same “open neutral” and found the island set up was garbage.
Once I replaced that one with a remodel box and standard outlet, it worked! The normal remodel box fit fine, I just had to make the hole a little bigger. The one thing that stumped me was setting up the new outlet, the first test gave me a “reverse ground” reading so I rewired the island outlet and it worked.
Having the 3 sets of wires made it challenging because I had no clue as to which wires were from the GFCI and where the other 2 were coming from and going. Still no idea. Probably going to do more research so I can put an outlet with a USB port.
This has been quite the eye opening experience. Lots of great advice, and I saw first hand how crappy the wiring is in RV’s. My weekend project is going to be cleaning up the janky plastic boxes with reliable boxes and outlets.
Again thank you all so much who contributed and provided relevant advice and guidance! Made my day!

Items purchased:
Klein GFCI receptacle tester - mentioned in this thread

Items used:
GFCI receptacle tester
Wire strippers
Needle nose pliers
Electrical tape
Non contact voltage tester
New GFCI 15amp outlet (had a 15amp circuit breaker)
New remodel box and standard outlet to replace the RV outlet

Helpful YouTube videos:
https://youtu.be/-ujhqb6Eli0
https://youtu.be/YLA5u8BJrwg
https://youtu.be/EGgQGiUvcCU

[Devin_Noel]

Are the bathroom GFCI & fridge on the same circuit? Usually they are not to prevent nuisance trips from killing your food (household thing too). On my rig the GFCI in the bathroom covers the outside outlets. I think the outlet behind the sink on the island has it's own GFCI.

A GFCI will only protect things plugged into it & anything wired downstream of that outlet.
A GFCI is required where there will be moisture around an outlet (bathroom, kitchen & outside)
A GFCI is only $30 or so, but that's WAY more than a $3 outlet, so they often wire things up funky to save on putting in another GFCI

The indicator turns red on a GFCI after it's tripped. Hitting the test button trips the GFCI, so the indicator coming on after hitting test is appropriate. it should clear after hitting reset.

Do you have another circuit other than the bathroom with a different GFCI? It's rather unlikely that the GFCI tests fine & things downstream are failing. Even less likely after replacing the GFCI.

It sounds to me like a loose wire somewhere downstream of the GFCI or on another circuit just not letting current flow to the rest of the circuit.

A https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...T210/206517824 or any other number of similar testers is worth it's weight in gold for this type of thing. Hitting the button on that tester is the same as hitting the test button on a GFCI. You should hear a click from the GFCI & see the indicator come on. The other lights on the tester are great for quickly figuring out where there is or isn't power. A multimeter is better in some respects, but a lot slower to use.

[bbelill]

I had a similar seemingly random issue when I bought my 2016 Keystone Passport 2400BH. Issue ended up being that NONE of the neutral wires were tightened on the bus bar inside the electric box.
If you haven't taken the cover off and checked there, might be worth a look. Once I saw that, it took 5 mins with a screw driver tightening them to resolve the issue.

2nd thing would be is the new GFCI showing a red light as well? If so I'd Google "GFCI red light" and start tracking it down that way.

Maybe also use a $10 receptacle tester on it to see if that shows any issues. Those would be my things to start with at least - good luck!

[Essvar]

There doesn’t happen to be a second GFCI in the garage bathroom?

[Sam75462001]

Thank you for taking the time to help.
I replaced the GFCI and it has a green light. As far as I know the fridge and bathroom are on the same circuit. In the winter we had a so w heater plugged into the bathroom that tripped the GFCI and the same alarm came on in the fridge that let us know something was wrong. Unplugged the heater and reset the GFCI and all was well.
The bathroom in the garage has power and has the GFI sticker but not the GFCI outlet. I am thoroughly confused and worried I have a wire somewhere that is a fire risk…

[Sam75462001]

Originally Posted by Devin_Noel

Are the bathroom GFCI & fridge on the same circuit? Usually they are not to prevent nuisance trips from killing your food (household thing too). On my rig the GFCI in the bathroom covers the outside outlets. I think the outlet behind the sink on the island has it's own GFCI.

A GFCI will only protect things plugged into it & anything wired downstream of that outlet.
A GFCI is required where there will be moisture around an outlet (bathroom, kitchen & outside)
A GFCI is only $30 or so, but that's WAY more than a $3 outlet, so they often wire things up funky to save on putting in another GFCI

The indicator turns red on a GFCI after it's tripped. Hitting the test button trips the GFCI, so the indicator coming on after hitting test is appropriate. it should clear after hitting reset.

Do you have another circuit other than the bathroom with a different GFCI? It's rather unlikely that the GFCI tests fine & things downstream are failing. Even less likely after replacing the GFCI.

It sounds to me like a loose wire somewhere downstream of the GFCI or on another circuit just not letting current flow to the rest of the circuit.

A https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...T210/206517824 or any other number of similar testers is worth it's weight in gold for this type of thing. Hitting the button on that tester is the same as hitting the test button on a GFCI. You should hear a click from the GFCI & see the indicator come on. The other lights on the tester are great for quickly figuring out where there is or isn't power. A multimeter is better in some respects, but a lot slower to use.

I’m gonna pick up that bad boy in the am. Thank you for pointing me toward that. Any clue if I find the receptacle downstream that is causing the problem? The outlets like the one in the picture I uploaded are foreign to me. Never seen wires set in the back like that and have no clue how to test the wires for proper connection. Is that an RV thing and do people replace them with standard outlets?

[ChuckS]

The GFCI outlet as is ALL the rest of the outlets in the RV are called "Self Contained"... meaning no separate box is needed to house the outlet inside of like you find in a typical home

The Outlets that have a "GFI Protected" sticker is telling you it is being powered from a GFCI outlet...

If the new GFCI outlet shows green and has power coming out of the "Load Out" side but other outlets are dead then the issue is downstream from that GFCI outlet

If you run an Instapot it is drawing somewhere around 10 amps at full heating cycle or pressure cooking cycle.. This does not leave much headroom for anything else in the string of outlets on that GFCI

I would be looking at the Neutral connections for that outlet as well as inside the power center panel at the AC line BUS connections.. Remove the protective cover panel and torque the connection screws for neutral and line from that breaker that powers the GFCI

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

The GFCI outlet as is ALL the rest of the outlets in the RV are called "Self Contained"... meaning no separate box is needed to house the outlet inside of like you find in a typical home

The Outlets that have a "GFI Protected" sticker is telling you it is being powered from a GFCI outlet...

If the new GFCI outlet shows green and has power coming out of the "Load Out" side but other outlets are dead then the issue is downstream from that GFCI outlet

If you run an Instapot it is drawing somewhere around 10 amps at full heating cycle or pressure cooking cycle.. This does not leave much headroom for anything else in the string of outlets on that GFCI

I would be looking at the Neutral connections for that outlet as well as inside the power center panel at the AC line BUS connections.. Remove the protective cover panel and torque the connection screws for neutral and line from that breaker that powers the GFCI

It would be a great idea to disconnect from shore power when tightening the white wires Chuck suggested. It would also be a great idea to replace all the outlets in the trailer with standard (screw terminals on the side) outlets in shallow work boxes. The wires in your current outlets were shoved into blades which were intended to slice the insulation and make connection but this was done because it takes a lot less labor than to use traditional outlets which require each connection to be set in a loop and connected to the screw on the side. It is often difficult to diagnose a bad connection with visual inspection on your camper's outlets. I think it was suggested that you buy a tester if you don't want to replace them all. Here is an inexpensive tester on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Amprobe-ST-10...NrPXRydWU&th=1

[Sam75462001]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

It would be a great idea to disconnect from shore power when tightening the white wires Chuck suggested. It would also be a great idea to replace all the outlets in the trailer with standard (screw terminals on the side) outlets in shallow work boxes. The wires in your current outlets were shoved into blades which were intended to slice the insulation and make connection but this was done because it takes a lot less labor than to use traditional outlets which require each connection to be set in a loop and connected to the screw on the side. It is often difficult to diagnose a bad connection with visual inspection on your camper's outlets. I think it was suggested that you buy a tester if you don't want to replace them all. Here is an inexpensive tester on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Amprobe-ST-10...NrPXRydWU&th=1

I can’t say thank you enough to everyone and their guidance and support. Just purchased a GFCI tester at Home Depot and some standard outlets to replace the “blade” attachments. Hardest part has been finding the shallow boxes. Once I complete the work and hopefully resolve the issue I will update. Thank you all again so much!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Sam75462001

I can’t say thank you enough to everyone and their guidance and support. Just purchased a GFCI tester at Home Depot and some standard outlets to replace the “blade” attachments. Hardest part has been finding the shallow boxes. Once I complete the work and hopefully resolve the issue I will update. Thank you all again so much!

Don't be "lulled into a compromise" and install the conventional outlets without using a shallow, old work box. Some are probably in locations where a regular depth old work box will work, so not every outlet will require the "exotic hard to find shallow box"... The problem, at least with "moving, twisting, humidity filled RV's" (as compared to stable, non-moving houses) is that should a wire behind an outlet break, should something from above fall behind the outlet, should the outlet, through twisting, come in contact with ground, you have the risk of either a "hot skin trailer" and electrocute anyone who touches the metal on the outside, or you risk a fire/melting all the wiring on that circuit. Often, the latter happens, not next to a fire station, but miles down a dirt road, in the middle of nowhere, as soon as you plug in the generator and it goes into "overload until the circuit breaker opens"... By then, there's the potential for smoke and flames inside the walls and with no "cell service to call for help and no address to tell the fire department where you are"... Things go south quickly...

So, don't be tempted to install outlets without a protective shallow wall box to protect the wires and your trailer.....

[travelin texans]

The boxes with the flip tabs that you'll need to replace the cheapo rv plugs, whether shallow or regular, are non existent in any hardware store with 60-70 miles of where I'm at in Central Arizona, I haven't checked on-line yet.

[jasin1]

Often times you can go into a electrical supply house that the trades use…when you go in KNOW what your looking for and DO NOT ask any questions or advice from counter people…that will tip them off and they will not sell to you..
Dress like you work for a living…no flip flops and cute hats or Hawaiian shirts etc.

When they ask for an account just say something like Acme or Roadrunner Electric
..and say it’s just a cash account…they will mumble something you can’t quite make out but will perceive as an insult and charge you exactly double the actual cost…this will at least provide you an avenue for hard to find items..this works at plumbing and hvac supply houses as well…doesn’t work with items that require a license to purchase

If at any point they pause and look at you with a blank stare. Just say “does Bobby still work here?”……that’s usually enough to override their skepticism

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Often times you can go into a electrical supply house that the trades use…when you go in KNOW what your looking for and DO NOT ask any questions or advice from counter people…that will tip them off and they will not sell to you..
Dress like you work for a living…no flip flops and cute hats or Hawaiian shirts etc.

When they ask for an account just say something like Acme or Roadrunner Electric
..and say it’s just a cash account…they will mumble something you can’t quite make out but will perceive as an insult and charge you exactly double the actual cost…this will at least provide you an avenue for hard to find items..this works at plumbing and hvac supply houses as well…doesn’t work with items that require a license to purchase

If at any point they pause and look at you with a blank stare. Just say “does Bobby still work here?”……that’s usually enough to override their skepticism

In small towns where everybody knows everybody (and their family as well as their business) this won't work... But, a good thing, in most small towns, since everybody knows you, they are more reluctant to say no and will sell to you anyway... If word gets out that they "charged you double" chances are good that a "real electrician" that's your neighbor or your cousin, will set them straight and next time you go in for that "unicorn that's not at Lowe's" they'll give you a discount after asking you if so and so is your relative.....

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

In small towns where everybody knows everybody (and their family as well as their business) this won't work... But, a good thing, in most small towns, since everybody knows you, they are more reluctant to say no and will sell to you anyway... If word gets out that they "charged you double" chances are good that a "real electrician" that's your neighbor or your cousin, will set them straight and next time you go in for that "unicorn that's not at Lowe's" they'll give you a discount after asking you if so and so is your relative.....

Yeah I was mostly joking but I used this method years ago before I started my business or like my FIL used to pronounce “bidness”

Some supply houses I deal with print catalog with pricing double of what it actually is…in case a homeowner wants to see it for themselves in a rare instance …it provides for the overhead in a contractors pricing …counter sales usually pay that price..everyone else pays a percentage based on their credit and size of business and yearly sales through that supply house….almost everyone pays a different price and sometimes depending on the counter guy you will pay a different percentage.

[wiredgeorge]

Either get the shallow old work boxes with wings OR use the ones that screw onto the outside of wall and make sure your switch plates are large enough to cover where they go onto the wall. They do sell oversize switch plates and I have used these many times to cover oooops cuts, etc. I couldn't readily find any of the shallow boxes with wings but I have installed some in my camper so they must be out there somewhere.

https://www.amazon.com/Carlon-B108R-...s%2C620&sr=8-1

or
https://www.ebay.com/itm/11531634143...sAAOSwE4FiQia2

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Yeah I was mostly joking but I used this method years ago before I started my business or like my FIL used to pronounce “bidness”

Some supply houses I deal with print catalog with pricing double of what it actually is…in case a homeowner wants to see it for themselves in a rare instance …it provides for the overhead in a contractors pricing …counter sales usually pay that price..everyone else pays a percentage based on their credit and size of business and yearly sales through that supply house….almost everyone pays a different price and sometimes depending on the counter guy you will pay a different percentage.

When I needed new exhaust manifolds for my Mercury I/O (rusted out from running it in the Gulf and the Intercoastal Waterway while shrimping and speckled trout/redfish "catching") They were over $200 each at the local Mercury dealer. I found a marine supply house in Houston that had an aftermarket set (both sides) for $175. But they only sold to "marine dealers" It's amazing how fast my garage had a "Marine Repair, sales and service" sign stuck out front LOL Even with shipping, it was less than half the price of any dealer in Louisiana. I did "special order business" with that warehouse for about 15 years. All my buddies, neighbors, work associates and their friends would "come to my Marine Repair, sales and service" to check pricing before ordering from a local dealer. Every year at Christmas, I got a bottle of wine and a gift certificate from them for being such a good "cash customer"

[Weldon]

Not sure where you are looking, but i am in a similar situation where i'm replacing 3 internal regular outlets, one outdoor outlet, and the actual GFCI outlet. I easily found 4 of the shallow boxes in our local THDs. I went to 2 different ones within a week, and i was able to see them in both the stores.

Happy to purchase some for you and ship them, but I imagine you can buy them online from THD as well, and have them shipped to your or your nearest store. In just north of Atlanta, BTW. If I can help, let me know.

[JRTJH]

Using Weldon's suggestion, I checked the availability at the Home Depot store in the General Booth Store, 2324 Elson Green Avenue, Virginia Beach, VA.

There are 9 in stock at that store, located on Aisle 06, Bay 012...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1...077341#overlay

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Using Weldon's suggestion, I checked the availability at the Home Depot store in the General Booth Store, 2324 Elson Green Avenue, Virginia Beach, VA.

There are 9 in stock at that store, located on Aisle 06, Bay 012...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1...077341#overlay

The 9 in stock is kind of problematic. Whenever I have relied on the box store's online inventory it never worked out. Tell a clerk you saw 9 online and you will get a dazed look. Best call the department and verify before making a run to such a store.

[Sam75462001]

Originally Posted by Sam75462001

Hello everyone,
(2018 Keystone Raptor 426TS 50amp shore power currently)
Been full-timing it on base during retirement transition and learning a lot. Reaching out for some knowledge. Recently had an interesting issue... My fridge, (NORCOLD model 2118), sent a "No AC" code and typically would trip the GFCI. Usually from running the instapot on the island and the air purifier or something in the bathroom GFCI. This time we had the instapot and air purifier plugged in at the same time at the island. Got the alarm so I unplugged both and switched to LP to keep the fridge cold. Did the following with no joy:

-Read through these forums; found and tried a few good ones with similar issues.... WAS leaning toward a loose wire thread, no more after the update.
-Checked the GFCI- it was not tripped and still had power, hit the test/reset button anyways. (pictured below)
-Went to the circuit breaker and checked, the breaker was not tripped, cycled it anyways to check and still no joy. (pictured below)
-Took off the back panel on the fridge and checked the F3 amp fuse and it was still good.
-Checked each outlet in the RV and looked over it all to try to find a hidden GFCI in the line that would be the issue, nothing found.
-Each outlet was dry and did not have any moisture from rain, spills, condensation, etc...
-Went as far as disconnecting all power and cycling everything, even checked the surge protector at shore power and all was good.

What I have found; (pictured below) the outlet in the basement, outside, island, table, and fridge are not working. What is odd is the GFCI outlet in the bathroom has power and so does the one next to it that is GFI. The rest in line that typically are out when the GFCI trips are out.

Wanted to reach out to get feedback or suggestions before I start taking each outlet apart and check/update wiring. Probably going to run to home depot and get a replacement GFCI prior to getting to work.

***UPDATE #1***
Took apart each outlet, wiring looked fine, nothing burnt, loose or unattached. Keep coming back to the main GFCI in master bath. It has power and when I press the test button, only a red light shows (pictured below). Leads me to believe that the GFCI outlet is bad.

Intend to head to home depot and get a 15amp replacement. Gonna look into the threads to see how to replace it with the way this GFCI is wired...(pictured below)

***UPDATE #2***
Replaced the GFCI, still no joy on the outlets.

Anyone have insight as to what else could possibly be the issue??

***UPDATE #3 ISSUE RESOLVED!***

Issue resolved!! Thanks to the suggestions to buy the GFCI tester, I got the code “open neutral at the fridge outlet. Checked each one and said the same. I did find that one of the outlets, the island outlet, had 3 sets of wires. That was one of the issues, the wires in that crummy blade RV outlet set up had come loose and was difficult to see because it was tucked between two others and was no longer making contact.
However, the first issue I resolved was the outside outlet had the bottom white wires burnt. I added a picture after I removed the outlet to show how hard it was to see. After replacing that outlet, I tested the outlets again and had the same “open neutral” and found the island set up was garbage.
Once I replaced that one with a remodel box and standard outlet, it worked! The normal remodel box fit fine, I just had to make the hole a little bigger. The one thing that stumped me was setting up the new outlet, the first test gave me a “reverse ground” reading so I rewired the island outlet and it worked.
Having the 3 sets of wires made it challenging because I had no clue as to which wires were from the GFCI and where the other 2 were coming from and going. Still no idea. Probably going to do more research so I can put an outlet with a USB port.
This has been quite the eye opening experience. Lots of great advice, and I saw first hand how crappy the wiring is in RV’s. My weekend project is going to be cleaning up the janky plastic boxes with reliable boxes and outlets.
Again thank you all so much who contributed and provided relevant advice and guidance! Made my day!