Yet Another Tire and Wheel Question

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

For me it's pretty simple, probably brought on by the many years of tires being undersized for an RV IMO. I use the GVW of the trailer, add 10% and get the load range that fits that. I do not subscribe to the notion that you remove the pin/tongue weight from the anticipated weight the tires need to carry for many reasons. JMO and others will vary.

Danny,

I don't like to figure "as close as needing to deduct the pin weight" either...

That said, even at "full GVW of 13000 pounds" the OEM tire size of 235/80R16 LRE is 3520. 4 tires on the ground support 14080. That's 1080 over GVW which is just shy of 8.4%, pretty close to your 10% excess... And that's with the OEM tire size.

Go up to the 235/85R16 LRE and the excess goes up to 12%. That's staying with 80PSI tires across the board and not calculating (deducting) anything for the 1985 pin weight.

Realistically, even going to LRF tires, which may require him to also change out wheels, isn't really necessary to achieve a "tire reserve cushion".

[Nankipoo]

Talked to a nice gentleman today at Sendel about my wheels. The 3580 rating means means 94PSI cold. I did ask him about that number and he stated that was cold that they figure in pressure rise when they test the wheels. I was thinking that G rated would give me a better safety rating. After all the replies about the G's being to harsh on the frame etc., I'm back to an E or F. I just want to get a tire I can depend on for at least 3 years. As of now with work and all we put less than 2500 miles a year on them.

[JRTJH]

If I were in your shoes, I'd "cut to the chase" and order the Carlisle Radial Trail HD 235/80R16 LRE. At WalMart, they are $101 each delivered to a store near you. Often Discount Tire will match/beat WalMart's price, of shop wisely.

Here's a link to the tire at WalMart: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Carlisle-...10ply/55012162

With your wheel rating of 3580, putting a tire on it rated higher than the wheel would just change the "weakest link" from the tire to the wheel. So, increasing above the OEM tire/wheel would require replacing both. That gets expensive when there's no real need to go above what you already have, just replace the aged tires for new ones and you're good for another 4 or 5 years...

[jadatis]

Originally Posted by Nankipoo

Talked to a nice gentleman today at Sendel about my wheels. The 3580 rating means means 94PSI cold. I did ask him about that number and he stated that was cold that they figure in pressure rise when they test the wheels. I was thinking that G rated would give me a better safety rating. After all the replies about the G's being to harsh on the frame etc., I'm back to an E or F. I just want to get a tire I can depend on for at least 3 years. As of now with work and all we put less than 2500 miles a year on them.

If you take the reserves, I gave, and that is G- load 235/85R16 in LT Q or P speedrated 11% reserve, or ST same sise 30% reserve , both at 95psi pressure, the tires can at least do 6 years.

In Europe that is standard, and even discussed, also by official institutes, to up to 10 years of use, and 2 years profesional storing, can be seen as new, so sometimes 12 years after DOT date preventive renewal.
I dont say that every tire makes that 12 years, after 6 years of use, yearly check , especialy on aging sighns. Then if average goes to 8 years, a lot less tires to recicle, wich is stilll not possible to do good for the environment.

A little care , and that is protect against UV light, and keep pressure high enaugh, and dont store near electric machines that produce peroxides, like Ozon.

F- Load , I did not see in that sise, but if available it can do, also 30% reserve to GAWR's of 6000 .

If you use a WDH , its possible that your trailer-axles will come to the 6000 lbs weight on it.

So LT maxload 3330 lbs minimum.
ST maxload 3900lbs minimum.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'd be curious to know how the two tires you listed "stack up against each other"...

I'd wonder if the heat buildup in a 14 ply tire with a speed rating of L operated at 110 PSI travelling 70MPH is greater than the heat buildup in a 10 ply tire with a speed rating of N operated at 80 PSI and travelling at the same 70MPH. One is operated 5 MPH under max speed and the other is operated at 22MPH under it's max speed rating.

Calculating sidewall flex in a G rated tire carrying "X" load at 110 PSI vs the sidewall flex in a E rated tire carrying that same load at 80 PSI, both travelling at 70 MPH under similar road/temperature conditions... I'd wonder if there's any advantage to one tire over the other in that environment....

I wonder why Keystone opted for LRG tires over LRE Endurance tires other than cost and possibly diameter ???

Maybe one of our tire experts can offer some insight ???

I suggest you read the material list on the tire sidewall. I don't know of any radials that have more than 3 "ply" in the body and most only have one.


ST tire load formula is based on a MAX operating speed of 65 mph. Don't know why anyone towing needs to go faster. I have a Class-C and set my cruse at 62 and am very comfortable and enjoy 10+ mpg.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I suggest you read the material list on the tire sidewall. I don't know of any radials that have more than 3 "ply" in the body and most only have one.


ST tire load formula is based on a MAX operating speed of 65 mph. Don't know why anyone towing needs to go faster. I have a Class-C and set my cruse at 62 and am very comfortable and enjoy 10+ mpg.

I do pretty much the same, but set the cruise at 64/65. My "comparison question" in that post was based on the previous poster's speculation that a LRG tire at 100 PSI would run cooler than a LRE tire at 80 PSI. I've got no idea on where to even start to research that...

[jadatis]

I think you would think its logical that if you put the E-load on 100 psi ( not allowed, yust for the example) leaves the tire cooler
The G load needs slightly higher pressure for the same load, but 100 psi with same weight, logically thinking, would leave them cooler.

[CWtheMan]

Speed ratings/symbols are based on laboratory tests that relate to performance on the road. Somewhere in the vast document libraries of NHTSA, there is a record of those tests provided by ST tire manufacturers. The documentation will attest the tires meet the requirements of the affixed speed symbols on their tires. I assume they would be similar to the tests provide by the tire manufacturer allowing them to mold “DOT certified” on all tires they have tested for highway service. The first sentence is fact.

Another definition: Speed ratings are the product of laboratory testing – with simulated speeds and loads. To receive any kind of rating, a tire must demonstrate that it’s capable of sustaining a particular speed. Industry standards govern the process of reaching and maintaining a given speed during a test.

[ewbldavis]

You sometimes feel like "why am I reading another tire thread?", but this was helpful.

I've considered Carlisle tires, but haven't seen much on them in these threads. Good to see a recommendation on specific Carlisle tire.

My utility trailer has 10-year old Carlisle tires on it (I know I know...plan to replace this spring), so I figured they must be somewhat decent.

[81SHOVELHEAD]

Originally Posted by Nankipoo

What tire in an LRF do you recommend?

When we replaced our Trailer king tires after 5 yrs with zero issues . We went with the Hercules H901 G rated 14 ply in the 16" size . Made by Cooper tire. Great tires.

[jadatis]

Originally Posted by ewbldavis

You sometimes feel like "why am I reading another tire thread?", but this was helpful.

I've considered Carlisle tires, but haven't seen much on them in these threads. Good to see a recommendation on specific Carlisle tire.

My utility trailer has 10-year old Carlisle tires on it (I know I know...plan to replace this spring), so I figured they must be somewhat decent.

I would like to know the exact specifications of your Carlisle tires, so I can calculate back if they have the comfortable reserves, that made them last 10 years?
St or LT , sises , given maxload and speedcode.

Also axle-weights and used tire-pressure.
And is DOT-date from 10 years ago, or used time?

[ewbldavis]

Originally Posted by jadatis

I would like to know the exact specifications of your Carlisle tires, so I can calculate back if they have the comfortable reserves, that made them last 10 years?
St or LT , sises , given maxload and speedcode.

Also axle-weights and used tire-pressure.
And is DOT-date from 10 years ago, or used time?

Trailer is a 5x8 landscape trailer. Tire date on photo attached. KENDA Load Star ST175/80D13 with 1100# rating @ 35 PSI. I check pressure every spring.

This trailer has had an easy life. Used about 6X per year, hauling a golf cart, mulch, and a few times gravel. Tires look great - minimal or no checking, etc.

This year they need replaced simply due to age! Well overdue for a bearing pack too. I'm much better about vehicle maintenance than this thing sees

Edit: I guess they are Kenda tires - my bad! I thought they were Carlisle.

[jadatis]

Even in Europe, where I live, after 10 years of use preventive renewal is adviced. So you tires 1010 are 11 years after DOT- date, so probably mounted 10 years ago.

The 35 psi is also the reference pressure of a standard load P-tire.

How did you store the trailer ( out if the sun fi) .
And what distances you made with the golf-car on it? And the speeds used?
2x 1100 lbs is 2200lbs , so if you did not go over an axleweight of 2000 lbs and no speed above 65mph, it would explain why they made 10 years without troubles.

Will search back the sise in Personscartire, to see if they used the 6 LI steps higher maxload for ST here. In the smaller sises sometimes same maxload as Q speedrated tire.

EDIT found 175/80R 13 in LI 86S is maxload 1168 lbs AT 36 psi, and is calculated in maxload for 99mph , max speed 112mph.

So what I suspected is right, that this is an exeption to the rule, so no 6 LI steps higher then Q speedrated or higher.
So extra reserve, because maxload is calculated for 99mph. what speedrating they give on yours?
Searched R instead of your given D ( for diagonal) , but think the maxload is not different between D and R.

This all explains , that these tires did not give tire failure, as ST often give. Now only your use as asked to be complete.

[ewbldavis]

Yeah...but sidewall also states 35.

It sits outside...some sun, but not a lot. Never over 60 fully loaded... especially with a golf cart. Also local trips.

As noted..easy life, but still surprised I don't have sidewall cracks and the like after almost 11 years! I don't have a spare, so may just keep one of them.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by ewbldavis

Yeah...but sidewall also states 35.

It sits outside...some sun, but not a lot. Never over 60 fully loaded... especially with a golf cart. Also local trips.

As noted..easy life, but still surprised I don't have sidewall cracks and the like after almost 11 years! I don't have a spare, so may just keep one of them.

K3 plant code = Taiwan

On todays market the Kenda Load Star ST175/80D13 is still sold as a LRB with 1100# of load capacity at 35 PSI.

Bias ply tires are no longer recommended for use on wheel diameters below 15". ST175/80R13 LRB tires are manufactured by all manufacturers building 13" trailer tires.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by CWtheMan

K3 plant code = Taiwan

On todays market the Kenda Load Star ST175/80D13 is still sold as a LRB with 1100# of load capacity at 35 PSI.

Bias ply tires are no longer recommended for use on wheel diameters below 15".

The Kenda Load Star ST175/80D13 is what came on my Bass Tracker trailer, with "TRACKER" logo on the tire sidewall. They lasted 6 years supporting a gross weight of 1890 pounds on them. They turned out to be "problem free, bias ply tires" that served me well until they started leaking air. That was my reason for replacement. I never found a leak, but both tires would be flat after 2-3 weeks of sitting in the garage between fishing trips.

I replaced them with Carlisle Radial Trail HD 185/80R13 LRD and have never had any problems. It's "overkill" on replacement tires, but the boat doesn't seem to complain and it's ready to go without finding a compressor after sitting a while.

[jadatis]

So you see that even if tires are from Taiwan, they can make 10 years.

Searched back the old list of Goodyear, and also 1100 lbs in Radial.
On that old list I now only suspect the last 2 to be calculated in maxload for 65mph.
The rest yust a P-tire or LT set in the marked as ST, and because those smaller sises, where not put on trailers with extreme high max axleloads, it was not needed to give them more maxload, so no 6 LI steps extra needed.

But OK , yust my conclusion, from an amateur pigheaded Dutch selfdeclared tirepressure-specialist.

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by jadatis

EDIT found 175/80R 13 in LI 86S is maxload 1168 lbs AT 36 psi, and is calculated in maxload for 99mph , max speed 112mph.

Here in the USA all ST & LT tires have their load capacity standardized by the load range letter system (LRB = 35 PSI max). The standard load euro-metric tire you have described above derives its load capacity from a load index chart and your numbers match that chart.

However, the tire you described is a passenger tire and when the maximum load of 1168 is divided by 1.1, its maximum load for service on a trailer axle would be 1061#. That would not meet our standards for a tire to replace the ST175/80R13 LRB.

[ewbldavis]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The Kenda Load Star ST175/80D13 is what came on my Bass Tracker trailer, with "TRACKER" logo on the tire sidewall. They lasted 6 years supporting a gross weight of 1890 pounds on them. They turned out to be "problem free, bias ply tires" that served me well until they started leaking air. That was my reason for replacement. I never found a leak, but both tires would be flat after 2-3 weeks of sitting in the garage between fishing trips.

I replaced them with Carlisle Radial Trail HD 185/80R13 LRD and have never had any problems. It's "overkill" on replacement tires, but the boat doesn't seem to complain and it's ready to go without finding a compressor after sitting a while.

Thanks - will have to look at the Carlisle's as replacements. Overkill maybe, but they may last another 10 with the overkill for the use this thing sees.

Our TT tires were original China bombs - 7 years old. One went flat and they developed nasty cracks over winter. Planned to replace them with better Radial had we not traded it (bet a dollar CW didn't replace them).

[CWtheMan]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The Kenda Load Star ST175/80D13 is what came on my Bass Tracker trailer, with "TRACKER" logo on the tire sidewall. They lasted 6 years supporting a gross weight of 1890 pounds on them. They turned out to be "problem free, bias ply tires" that served me well until they started leaking air. That was my reason for replacement. I never found a leak, but both tires would be flat after 2-3 weeks of sitting in the garage between fishing trips.

I replaced them with Carlisle Radial Trail HD 185/80R13 LRD and have never had any problems. It's "overkill" on replacement tires, but the boat doesn't seem to complain and it's ready to go without finding a compressor after sitting a while.

I got my info from RVIA. Here's a write-up from Modern Tire Dealer.

https://www.moderntiredealer.com/art...y%20the%20RVIA.