Disc Brake Conversion

aehjr · 10-19-2020, 03:01 PM

I've been thinking about making the switch to disc brakes since we purchased the trailer. Every camping trip we make involves driving over a mountain pass in Colorado or other western states. Even driving down to town for trailer service includes a 2,000' drop in 10 miles and an 8% grade. On our last ride over Monarch Pass, I got stuck behind a car driving way under the speed limit; I was on the brakes the whole time because using Tow/ Haul mode had my engine screaming. Figured it was better to wear out the brakes than to blow the engine.

I've searched the forum to look at previous posts on the topic; my question is what should the parts cost and how many hours of labor should I expect the shop to charge me? I have an estimate from Windish for $5,000 with $3000 of that being the parts. They also quoted me four months for scheduling due to how many trailers they've sold this year and the number of rigs being serviced. I'm reasonably handy but have no interest in sitting in the cold and snow doing a brake installation so am happy to pay a shop to do the work.

Any recent experience with parts and labor costs would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Alden

hornet28 · 10-19-2020, 03:52 PM

In your mind what rpm is screaming? You should use the tow/haul that's what it's for. If the rpm's got too high it would upshift.

**chuckster57** · 10-19-2020, 04:01 PM

I don’t think the price quoted was out of line.

77cruiser · 10-19-2020, 04:21 PM

Doesn't your exhaust brake work?

aehjr · 10-19-2020, 04:36 PM

Over 3500 rpm. I don't like being that close to the redline on the truck.

Yes, the exhaust brake works but not like on a Ram or Chevy. If I remember the specs correctly, the Ford exhaust brake on my truck provides 250 ft-lbs of braking power in Tow Haul mode.

LewisB · 10-19-2020, 05:34 PM

We travel widely in Colorado and have lots of experience on most of the passes (including Monarch) - our GCVW is just over 27,000. The Ford exhaust brake should take care of 95% of your braking. The computer system will not let your engine overspeed - it will upshift if necessary. So don't let your "worry" about going over 3000 rpm be the issue - it is misplaced worry. Ford engineering is at least as good as the other major manufacturers and the truck will not allow the braking system to damage the engine.

If you can't go down Monarch pass at or near the speed limit and only occasionally touch the service brakes, then either your engine braking system is malfunctioning, or you are not using the system as designed and intended. You can always touch the brakes briefly to reduce engine speed - don't ride them, just a quick on/off gives them a chance to not build up heat. If you are arbitrarily shutting off the engine brake based on "worry", then the problem is operator error. A thorough review of your Owner's Manual might help. Then drive based on Ford's recommendations, not arbitrary rules based on your worry. Additionally, you can choose to slow down. Dropping your decent rate will also allow the engine brake to hold at a lower RPM.

I don't mean to be unkind - just straight forward. Disk brake replacements on your trailer would be nice and will be VERY expensive - people who have done this always talk in favor of them. In my opinion, if you service and check your electric trailer brakes, the conversion is completely unnecessary. That's why probably 95% or more of towable RV owners don't have the conversion - the cost is just not justified based on need for must of us.

JMHO

LewisB · 10-19-2020, 05:39 PM

One other thought - are you sure you have your trailer brakes set up correctly in the Ford towing system? Have you set the level bulk level-of-effort to HIGH in the trailer selection area? Then the controller can be set up for braking effort once connected. I run ours on about 6-8 on a 10 scale.

Hope that helps!

aehjr · 10-19-2020, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisB

One other thought - are you sure you have your trailer brakes set up correctly in the Ford towing system? Have you set the level bulk level-of-effort to HIGH in the trailer selection area? Then the controller can be set up for braking effort once connected. I run ours on about 6-8 on a 10 scale.

Hope that helps!

I can definitely go down Monarch Pass at the speed limit and only occasionally touch the brakes. It was the last trip with a tourist in a small car (red license plate so it was a rental) scared to drive down the pass at the speed limit that was the issue. The driver was driving at probably 20 mph and kept slowing to 10-15 in the curves. I kept trying to increase the following distance but would run up on him when I'd get off the brakes or turn off the Tow Haul because of engine speed.

Yes, level of effort is set to high and trailer gain is set to 6. On our next trip, I'll try a higher setting on the road. In town, anything higher than 6 is too grabby on the trailer brakes.

Thanks,
Alden

77cruiser · 10-19-2020, 06:18 PM

That's what is nice about disc brakes they're not grabby.

bobbecky · 10-19-2020, 07:54 PM

I had our rig upgraded to discs in June of 2019. I had Performance Trailer Braking do the upgrade and the installer did the work in the RV park we were at. All the parts were shipped to the park prior to our arrival. We could have just as easily had the work done anywhere. They used the 7K/8K brake kit with 8K rotors with 9/16" studs, Brakerite actuator, and all the parts needed to complete the job. I also paid extra to upgrade the bearings to Timkens, so that was a bit more than $160 extra. Parts were just under $2300. The installer fee was $1000, which was worth the cost, as he had all the trick tools for doing the work. 405-626-7009 www.performancetrailerbraking.com

These disc brakes work great and now wish I had done this years ago. This was the rotors and calipers installed at the end of the first 1/2 day. Also photo of the actuator not yet wired.

travelin texans · 10-19-2020, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbecky

I had our rig upgraded to discs in June of 2019. I had Performance Trailer Braking do the upgrade and the installer did the work in the RV park we were at. All the parts were shipped to the park prior to our arrival. We could have just as easily had the work done anywhere. They used the 7K/8K brake kit with 8K rotors with 9/16" studs, Brakerite actuator, and all the parts needed to complete the job. I also paid extra to upgrade the bearings to Timkens, so that was a bit more than $160 extra. Parts were just under $2300. The installer fee was $1000, which was worth the cost, as he had all the trick tools for doing the work. 405-626-7009 www.performancetrailerbraking.com

These disc brakes work great and now wish I had done this years ago. This was the rotors and calipers installed at the end of the first 1/2 day. Also photo of the actuator not yet wired.

I totally agree with using Performance Trailer Braking! Had the disc installed on my 5er in 2016 along with upgrading to 17.5" Sailun H rated tires/wheels all shipped to the park we were at from PTB. They did a great job with great products & very pleasant installers, best upgrade we've ever done, worth every cent.
If you've ever towed a large rv with disc brakes you'll never want drum brakes again regardless of how well they have been maintained or adjusted, you can actually feel the rv stopping the truck as if they were one.

Tom N OH · 10-20-2020, 04:07 AM

I’ll agree with Travelin’ Texans. Until you’ve had the disc brakes, you truly don’t know what you’re missing. We bought our 3811MS with the Legacy package this spring. The disc brakes make a tremendous difference in how smoothly & quickly the trailer stops. It’s a much more controlled feeling. Not sure I’d pay someone $5k to install them for me, but I have the skills to do the job myself.

**flybouy** · 10-20-2020, 05:36 AM

I've never had disk breaks on a trailer but the benefits are obvious. The question is, "is the juice worth the squeeze"? If I was towing all over the country and putting tens of thousands of miles on the rig I would do it in a heartbeat. For my use it's not worth the money.

I guess this is the question the OP must ask himself and decide. My only advice would be to rationalize your decision based on anticipated use and not one experience with a driver impeding your travel.

I've found myself in that situation before and I'll act in one of 2 ways. IF there's somewhere to pull over I'll pull over and wait a few minutes. That gives the driver ahead time to escape and me time to cool off and lety my aggravation subside. If pulling over isn't an option then I'll slow down to the point where the offending driver disappears around the next bend. Don't worry about someone behind you.

It's much better to slow down and keep your speed down than it is to "run up on a curve" and brake hard to make the curve. This holds true for towing or not towing. When I was young and dumb (well at least I'm older now

) I would drive thru the mountains in WVA like a downhill racer. I went thru a LOT of brake pads and few transmission synchronizers having my fun. And yes even though the car was "set up for it" I was irresponsible for doing that on the public highways.

It's a lot easier and less stressful on the equipment when you keep a vehichle under control as apposed to "getting it back under control." Taking that descent down the mountain for a few miles at a slower pace will not greatly affect your arrival time.

For the "new RV owners or those considering one" the thing to remember is that there's a huge difference between the energy necessary to stop (released as heat from the breaks) a pickup by itself and one carrying the extra weight of the trailer on the truck as well as as the weight pushing on the back of the truck. The truck (unless it's very old) will have disk brakes front and rear. The trailer will have drum brakes.

Disk brakes will ventilate and dissipate heat at a much faster rate. Therefore it's easy to overheat the trailer brakes causing them to fade or fail. When that happens the truck's brakes will have ALL the weight to control and they will become overwhelmed rapidly. Keeping the initial speed down and not "riding the brakes" will prevent this from happening. Short braking and letting the brakes cool before applying the brakes again can save you some headaches.

**chuckster57** · 10-20-2020, 05:47 AM

The other consideration: make sure your brake controller is compatible with electric over hydraulic system. I have an older prodigy P2 and it isn’t so disc brakes aren’t on my radar.

hornet28 · 10-20-2020, 07:00 AM

Operator error is the problem here. Tow/haul is there to be used, not to be turned on and off descending. The suggestion of pulling over to let the slower driver get ahead was certainly valid

LewisB · 10-20-2020, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aehjr

Over 3500 rpm. I don't like being that close to the redline on the truck.

Yes, the exhaust brake works but not like on a Ram or Chevy. If I remember the specs correctly, the Ford exhaust brake on my truck provides 250 ft-lbs of braking power in Tow Haul mode.

I'm assuming your 2018 has "Select Shift" like my 2017. If so, you can manually control your transmission in 2 ways;

Use the upshift/downshift buttons on the column gear selector to control the "range" of gears. We have a 6 speed; hitting the downshift makes gears 1-5 available; hit it again and you get 1-4 available. In this way you can manually control/limit the computer's selection of gears.
Place the gear shift in M (manual) and use the upshift/downshift buttons to completely control the transmission in manual mode.
Note that the manual process will be monitored and over-ridden by the computer system. The truck will NOT let you damage or overspeed the engine while in manual modes.

So in the case of the slow driver in front of you, manually control the transmission by locking into a lower gear as needed. When they speed up, upshift; when they slow down, downshift. Leave your engine brake engaged and it should take care of 95% of the braking.

Hope that helps.

ewbldavis · 10-20-2020, 07:38 AM

I'm surprised to see concerns over RPM with a diesel that has exhaust brake...

My gasser easily pulls 4-5000 RPM. I let the computer control it, and have actually manually downshifted in the mountains because travel trailer wasn't "heavy" enough to kick in grade braking.

I have wondered about the disc brakes. Certainly see benefit with everyone's toy haulers, etc. - but our GVWR is only 11,500 - so agree - is the juice worth the squeeze?

travelin texans · 10-20-2020, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewbldavis

I'm surprised to see concerns over RPM with a diesel that has exhaust brake...

My gasser easily pulls 4-5000 RPM. I let the computer control it, and have actually manually downshifted in the mountains because travel trailer wasn't "heavy" enough to kick in grade braking.

I have wondered about the disc brakes. Certainly see benefit with everyone's toy haulers, etc. - but our GVWR is only 11,500 - so agree - is the juice worth the squeeze?

I would have say from my experience with the disc brakes is "you bet squeeze me a big ole glass of juice" worth the $$.
I had the tools & skill to do the job, but as it turned out wouldn't of had all the proper materials. On my '13 GMC, it required some sort of electrical gizmo
for the brake controller to see the trailer connected, that stumped the installers for a bit & I never would've figured it out. They did a great job in 4 hours, packing bearings, cleaning up & hauled off all the old drums, definitely worth the $1000 for them to do it.

aehjr · 10-20-2020, 11:24 AM

Thanks to all who answered my questions regarding pricing and for offering your input on the benefits of the disc brakes and for recommending Performance Trailer Braking. If the prices on their website are current, they look to be about $2200 cheaper than my local dealer's quote.

My trailer setup menu has the option for "electric over hydraulic" brakes so the controller in the truck is compatible.

The juice is definitely worth the squeeze so am waiting for a call back from Performance Trailer Braking to see what they are offering in price and scheduling.

bobbecky · 10-20-2020, 12:49 PM

I forgot to include the device that is wired into the trailer that makes the actuator work with the older built in brake controller in our Chevy. I think it’s not much more than a resistor, but when I contacted PTB, they wanted a picture of the sticker on one of the axles, what the truck and trailer were, and they came up with the package of parts needed to make the brakes work.

You may also like: