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Old 11-14-2019, 10:01 AM   #1
ChrisB
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Main door adjustment

Hello from texas, we bought a carbon 5th wheel last year and from day one the main door has been out of alignment. We took the trailer back twice and got suckered into tue extended warranty (our first trailer, sigh). Found out they are never in a hurry to make the corrections or will simply tell you they are done when the issues were resolved and not covered by the warranty. I am at a loss as to how to adjust the door frame without taking the frame completely out and enlarging tue opening. Any advice will be apreciated
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:29 AM   #2
JRTJH
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First, this is a DEALER problem. Any "decent dealer" would have either adjusted the door properly or requested a replacement door from Keystone if the original door can't be properly adjusted. My guess is that Keystone doesn't have any idea there's a problem and they "paid the adjustment" claimed by the dealer long ago. Chances are great that Keystone thinks your door is fixed and you are a satisfied customer....

That said, depending on the alignment problem, there may be a way to fix it by adjusting the torque rods in the door frame or if the door frame is twisted/bent, then it may require a replacement as no adjustment will work... Without knowing what's the problem, what has been done and what may have been damaged by attempting to fix what was (not is) the original problem.... It's hard to make any recommendations....

It sounds like your dealership is "working to keep you paying" rather than "working to fix your problem"... It's time to stand in front of the dealership owner's desk and get to the bottom of the issue.
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:21 PM   #3
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Thanks for the insight, so far I have taken our rig to them twice for repairs. Twice have in ol ed the door. It did not work well in their parking lot and they told me it was because the rig was only supported by the front two Jack's. This is a 417 carbon, 43 foot in length. I dont know if they are telling me truth or not. Last time I went in they handed me a bill for 900 some odd bucks and I told them I am not paying for it. They tried to reduce the amount to 200 and I told them, you dont understand. I bought the extended warranty and it had only been a couple months since purchase. So they tore up the invoice and i left. We cant use the main door because we might not get it closed. Depending on the weather affects the door as well. My camping buddy has a cyclone 44 foot toy hauler and his door closes effortlessly. Hard to believe so drastically different. I am not sure the dealership will be happy to see me again!
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Old 11-14-2019, 11:03 PM   #4
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I can just about guess where you bought your trailer. If I were you, I'd contact Keystone, explain what has transpired, be prepared to forward them copies of all your receipts and work orders, and ask them to authorize you to take your trailer to a different dealership of THEIR choosing. That way, you're providing them what they need to repair your trailer that has not yet been repaired and THEY (not you) are responsible for the work being done. There won't be any "but you wanted to take it there, sorry they couldn't fix it"... It will be, "You instructed me to take it there, I did and they failed, it's still YOUR problem, Keystone"....
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Old 11-16-2019, 05:09 PM   #5
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John, I really appreciate the information. I like your suggestion. We bought out right out there on the west side of katy on i10. The sales folks were helpful but I have found service to be worse that thought possible. I have heard the horror stories about some places and they assured me they were different. Because we brought it up during closing. My camping buddy told me if I bought from the same place he did we would not be friends anymore. He bought a 100k trailer and they still tried to keep it for 2 months before they did the repair work. He has not taken it back yet. He wants to help me fix this ourselves but when I heard some of the issues you mentioned I think it is more complicated than we realize. So will either contact the dealer again or keystone directly. Thanks for taking time to give me that information.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:22 PM   #6
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Well, just learned something new today. My door is actually coming apart. The panel has pulled away from the frame of the door. When we close the door the opening gets larger and the foam inside the door and the outer covering is exposed. It appears to me the door will have to be replaced
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:42 AM   #7
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I had the same issue.. Pop the top off of the hinge and put some oil in it and work the hinge back and forth to work the oil in. Also there is a dimple on the hinge that can be drilled out to make it operate with less effort.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:51 AM   #8
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thanks for the tip, however my door now has a gap between the frame and the door panel that gets larger as the door is closed due to the friction in the hinge. I am afraid either the dealer or Keystone is going to have to replace the door. My back door is starting to get really stiff and hard to close as well, especially from the inside. I might need to have it addressed as well. Maybe they we defective from the start and the problem has just gotten to the point where they are becoming inoperable. I have sent an correspondence to Keystone. I guess I will know what they think in a couple days maybe.

thanks again
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:20 AM   #9
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Mine was pulling apart also. I just resealed the door after i fixed it.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:29 AM   #10
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I would consider that a great option but I have way too much trouble closing the door. at first it would hit the door jam at the top, then the striker plate stuck out to far and it starting hitting. now the bottom of the door is hitting one of the pan head screws on the bottom edge of the door. when we finally get it closed now the top and bottoms are flush with the frame but he door handle and latch are pooched away from the camper. That is when we noticed the gap. It is as if the door is getting wider and not fitting in the opening anymore. resulting in the gap shown in the picture. Keystone has not responded to my request yet. I will probably go by my dealership on the way home from work today to see what they say, but I was planning another camping trip after Christmas and I know they will not be done with it by then.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:34 AM   #11
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Once the hinges are freed up all the other issues will fix themselves. And just need to be resealed.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:42 AM   #12
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I'm guessing your door has "resistive hinges" that hold the door open to whatever position you leave it. There is no adjustment (that works) to lighten the force applied by the hinges. So, as you open/close the door, it places a "twisting force" on the door panels and can eventually lead to damage that looks like your door (fiberglass pulling out of the channel against the hinge).

While there are ways to "rebuild/repair" the damage, I've found it seldom lasts for very long. It's the "hinge's fault" and since adjusting the hinge doesn't work well" then the damage is going to recur after repairing the door.....

Easiest way to fix it is to replace the door "once and for all" and then to be done with it...

Doors come in various sizes, so obviously you need to order the correct size door. I'm guessing yours is a 30" door and retail pricing is around $425 or so. Installing the door is "straight forward and relatively easy" but if you don't have a clue how to do it, you can install it "off level/off center" and have issues.

I'd first try to get your dealership/Keystone to replace the door. If they agree, you're "golden"... if they refuse, then the question becomes, "Is it worth the hassle and heartburn for $425?" Only you can answer that question for you....

If you choose to replace the door, if you do it yourself, plan about $450 by the time you get the door and butyl putty tape. If you need to have an RV tech replace it, plan about $100-150 for his labor.

That said, I'd be in the dealership owner's office "being nice but insistent".....
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:51 AM   #13
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Thanks again, the door is very stiff and stays put like you said. I dont believe it will get better. I took some pictures and video. I plan to stop by the dealership this evening and see what they say. I have taken it to them twice before without any any correction. I will post what they say later this evening. I appreciate all the suggestions
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:44 AM   #14
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My carbon 347 is doing the same thing. The front door assembly was replaced under warranty the 1st year.its getting harder to close each time. The rear side door into the garage is now very stiff and is hitting the lowers crew head and the top radius corner, just like yours. I haven't noticed any separation but I'll check when I go to storage. Mine is indoor storage and on a slab on 6ft leveled nearly all the time.

Keystone cannot deny knowing this is an issue without lying. These doors used to close normally with reasonable pressure, now I have to slam them to latch.
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:22 PM   #15
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That's unfortunate. I contacted the dealership and they recommended contacting keystone. Spoke with them twice explaining that the trailer has been in twice for the doors. And I dont believe resolved as my door is now coming apart. They passed the buck and recommended that I contact lippert. I will but fully expect this to be a waste of time. My doors have never functioned well from the first outing and only progressively gotten worse. If I get any news from lippert I will post the results. We will most likely remove the resistance pin pressed into the hinge and use alternative means to control the door. Very poor design or lack of quality control in my opinion
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Old 12-16-2019, 04:31 AM   #16
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well, finally all of my resources have been exhausted. Contacted Keystone, they passed the buck and advised a call to Lippert. As they never returned and email I submitted I called, after about two weeks of gathering information for them, sharing videos and multiple picture requests. When they realized the door Had been installed properly and was really all about their product not functioning properly. They declined to provide any such type of support. As they are pretty much a single source supplier for most of these trailers. They really don't care if a customer has developed a bad situation due to the lack of quality control on their end. As I have no recourse except to dive into this on my own and rebuild one of my doors and try to arrest the damage being done on the other. My hinges have pins drove into create the friction on the main hinge barrel. I will drill them out and put some other type of door stop on them after rebuilding the door. I was hoping that putting lipperts lack of responsibility online for others to see might have an impact, but I realize they are not going to loose any contracts and they really don't care. However, one thing I have definitely learned from this forum, that is if you own a camper... You are going to have problems with it. Beyond the 1 year of purchase you pretty much will be on your own! accept it and move on. any other attitude will only cause you additional stress. They are going to require maintenance and repairs if you can't do them you will have to pay someone else to. Things every prospective camper owner should understand. Thanks for all that offered recommendation and support.
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:49 AM   #17
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Forget everyones thoughts on how you can fix it, get it back to the dealer.



You have a warranty going on...push them to figure it out.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:00 AM   #18
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Bypassing “Modern Technology”
In our pursuit for a solution to the Exterior RV door problems we have experience for our 2017 Carbon 417 Toy Hauler (with the Extended Warranty). Our Dealership was Holiday World in Katy Texas, Keystone is the manufacturer and Lippert is the Door and Door assembly manufacturer.
We delivered the trailer back to Holiday world on two different occasions, with Door closures on the list of repairs because they have never functioned properly. They have always been difficult to close, especially from the inside. Each time we picked up the camper we never experienced any improvement in the Door. Finally the main door began to hit so badly and we figured the dealership is not going to fix them anyway. So we started to utilize the rear door into the garage until we started to recognize the progression of problems with that door as well. Turns out the “New Technology”, friction hinges were putting way to much stress on these foam core doors with extruded aluminum frames. The aluminum frames were pulling away from the Doors and being twisted out of shape exposing the foam inside the door and the edge of the fiberglass siding was getting damaged.
We spoke to the Dealership and they explained that past the one year mark, those items are not covered in the warranty and recommended we speak to the manufacturer Keystone. They passed the buck and said they could not help us either and suggested that we contact the door manufacturer Lippert (LCI) which we did and after stringing us along for almost a month asking for pictures and tag information they finally said, they could not help us either.
The main door got so bad that the only way we could keep the door closed was to push the folding handle in over the door to keep it mostly closed.
This weekend we pulled the screws out of the doors from the hinges and realized these hinges were so bound up that we could not hardly move the hinges without using wrenches for additional leverage. No wonder the doors were coming apart, there is no way they were built to accommodate that much force to open and close the doors. We Removed the bolt from the bottom of the barrel of the hinge and realized there are three pins pushed into the barrels through the hinges. We drilled out the pins enough so that we could tap barrel down to get the hinges apart (making sure not to loose the plastic bushings between each piece) then we realized the pin was drilled through the barrel. So on the next set (two friction hinges per door, top and bottom) we decided to drill the backside of the hinge opposing the entry point of the hinge and using a small punch we were able to knock the pins out. This was much easier. But still had to use an extended punch to knock the barrel out of the hinge. Due to the overwhelming friction in the hinge tapping the barrel out of the hinges is a bit of an understatement. Never the less, we chucked up each barrel in a drill and used emery cloth to smooth out and clean up any rough spots on the barrel then used a drill bit that just barely took any material out of the center or each hinge. Put the hinges back together and checked them for operation. Smooth as silk.
Next we had to fix the door. On the hinge side of the door, the door is completely encompassed in an aluminum frame with consists of an aluminum extruded shape which clips onto the door. The force required to overcome the resistance in these amazing hinges twisted this aluminum frame and tweeked it out of shape. We took two screws out of the bottom and lifted the hinge side edge away from the door. There was a u shaped (galvanized) cap on the end of the foam that had the inner and outer liner adhered to it mostly. It has been partially disconnected causing the door to actually grow in length and hit the door jam. We straightend the extruded aluminum piece by hand. We applied silicon to the edge of the foam and reinstalled the U shaped piece ensuring the existing screw holes lined up with the holes in the foam. Then we reinstalled the frame and snapped it back onto the edge of the door tapping it down until the holes in the frame lined up with the holes in the U shaped piece. We Put the two screws back in at the bottom and let the door set without any stress on it for a couple hours to let the silicone dry and set up. Then we started to remounted the door.
Now that the pins have been removed we had to turn the barrels over with the bolt on top to keep them from falling out. Re attached the screen door and the exterior door.
The doors close better than they ever have. Need to determine what type of door stop we want to use. Spring and chain or fixed open with a clip or a Gas strut. Eventually we would like to put the MORryde Steps in so we probably need to install a gas strut at the top of the door. Now we need to do the same fix to the back entry door. Hope this helps anyone to overcome the lack of quality control issues with these hinges.
sorry for the long post but, I hope it helps someone overcome what appears to be a prevalent issue. if you can make sure they get these issues resolved before they can use the "out of warranty!" excuse.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:30 PM   #19
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Thanks for the follow up. I'm sure it will help someone. Did you get any pictures of your efforts to go along with the write up?
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:52 PM   #20
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I still need to do the back door. When I do I will get pictures this time. I have taken quite a few dealing with all the others in evolved but they are not really organized. Within a couple weeks for sure. Might be camping next weekend already. Giving the new door a trial.
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