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Old 11-08-2015, 01:06 PM   #1
CashRanger
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Towing Boats with the Cougar 27RKS??

I'm new to this forum and we just got into 5th wheels a short time ago. We're learning lots about it but have a long way to go so would greatly appreciate your thoughts on towing a 4000lb boat behind this specific line of 5th wheels.

I want to tow our Ranger 18' fiberglass boat behind a 5th wheel and wondering if anyone has towed a boat with the Keystone Cougar 27RKS (or anything shorter) in this Cougar XLite line of 5th wheels. It has a much beefier frame then the Rockwood Ultralight that I bought...big mistake there that I'm trying to work out with the dealer I bought it from. That's another story....

The Forest River Rockwood Signature Ultra-lite is a great trailer and hate to see it go but that frame is way too light and would need a lot of work. So instead of spending the money to beef up that frame which would likely max the axel ratings when all was said and done I've decided just to sell that and buy another. Hence why I'm posing this question to you all.

We're in CO where we can tow up to 70' in length (I'll be just under) and our TV is a 2015 Chevy 2500HD with the Duramax and Allison transmission. With a 4.10 rear end we have a 20,000lb tow capacity. The weak spot is our hitch which is a 16,000 lbs hitch but we'll be running at less than 14,000lbs.

I also know that this will void the warranty so probably won't initially do to make sure everything working as it should for 3-4,000 miles.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
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Old 11-08-2015, 01:17 PM   #2
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Yeah people do it. You will have to have a decent bumper built though, unless you use a Curt receiver hitch that attaches to the inside of the frame rails. When you go messing with the frame I believe you void the warranty, like I did.
The laws regarding double towing and length vary state to state. Traveling could be an issue.
Why not just get a Class C motorhome?
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Old 11-08-2015, 04:39 PM   #3
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I would not even consider any type of bumper hitch, go with a 2" receiver that welds to the frame. The dealership probably does them all of the time and you can work it into the deal. I've had receivers added to every one of my 5ers by the dealership when I bought them, usually around $400 for the hitch and trailer wiring. I've pulled a 17' boat behind a 30' Homestead and a 35' Jayco. It was only about 3k lbs so a little lighter than your Ranger. The Jayco had me sitting about 72' but I was in WY at the time and the limit was 80'. I've never had an issue going into other states or Canada. As for the warranty, yes, I believe it does void the warranty on the frame.
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Old 11-08-2015, 06:03 PM   #4
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We have a 2014 XLite 27RKS and tow our 18' Bass Tracker Tournament TX behind it on a regular basis. The boat and trailer weigh about 2200 pounds, so somewhat lighter than your boat. As stated, discuss the hitch situation with your dealer and/or with a "knowledgeable" welding shop. Don't take the word of someone who says they can do it, "no problem"... unless they can provide you with some evidence of their work.

Keep in mind that any trailer hitch you install that's capable of that kind of weight capacity will be a "custom hitch installation". So don't expect to find a "bolt on Curt hitch" and certainly don't expect to find anything that would support anywhere near that weight that "bolts on the bumper"... Most people with fifth wheels and travel trailers have found that the bumper will hardly support the spare tire, certainly not a hitch assembly to tow a 2 ton trailer... As for the Keystone warranty, yes, you will void your warranty on the frame, but not the warranty on other components of the trailer. Depending on your dealer, if he installs the hitch, he may well "look the other way" if there's an issue. What Keystone doesn't know, won't hurt them, so to speak.......

One "absolute necessity" that you need to consider is a rear camera for the fifth wheel and a monitor for your truck. I installed the Rear View Safety kit for fifth wheels. It cost about $200 in 2010 when I bought it for our Springdale and I've "reinstalled" the camera on the Cougar and the monitor on three trucks, the F150, the gas SuperDuty and now on the diesel SuperDuty. I wouldn't recommend a wireless camera system, it's likely to be a bit too far to transmit from the back of the 27RKS to the truck cab.

Here is a picture of our previous truck, trailer and boat. We had no issues towing the rig in Michigan, but since it was a gas engine, I'd hesitate to tow it at altitude. We've since bought a SuperDuty 6.7L diesel and have absolutely no issues towing. We measure 73' from the front bumper of the truck to the skeg on the outboard, so I'd suspect that you might be a "tad" over 70' when you get things built, hitched and measured......
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Old 11-08-2015, 06:18 PM   #5
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Just a thought, not trying to steer you away from the Cougar, but Jayco has 2" receiver hitches factory installed on their 5th wheels. Obviously a factory installed item will not void a warranty. I haven't really looked at any of their floor plans so not sure if any are comparable to what you're looking at. Additionally, I have not checked their tow ratings, but I'm guessing a 2" receiver is rated to support typical weights. I doubt it's back there for a bike rack.
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Old 11-08-2015, 06:33 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
Just a thought, not trying to steer you away from the Cougar, but Jayco has 2" receiver hitches factory installed on their 5th wheels. Obviously a factory installed item will not void a warranty. I haven't really looked at any of their floor plans so not sure if any are comparable to what you're looking at. Additionally, I have not checked their tow ratings, but I'm guessing a 2" receiver is rated to support typical weights. I doubt it's back there for a bike rack.
The Jayco Eagle brochure, on page 10 states that the "standard rear receiver" is rated at 300 pounds tongue weight and 3000 pound tow capacity. So, based on the OP's statement that his boat/trailer weighs about 4000 pounds, the Jayco "standard hitch" isn't rated high enough to tow his boat. http://www.jayco.com/tools/brochures/
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
The Jayco Eagle brochure, on page 10 states that the "standard rear receiver" is rated at 300 pounds tongue weight and 3000 pound tow capacity. So, based on the OP's statement that his boat/trailer weighs about 4000 pounds, the Jayco "standard hitch" isn't rated high enough to tow his boat. http://www.jayco.com/tools/brochures/
Thanks for the info, I figured someone would take the time to dig it up.
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:24 AM   #8
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Thanks for all the good information.

Yes, I will only take it to reputable shop for the receiver. I've got recommendations for welding shops in the area that do this work from a few dealers to double check.

Regarding the Jayco, I'm stuck with this dealer or going to take a serious bath on the Rockwood.
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:38 AM   #9
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I think your "biggest hurdle" is going to be length. Our rig is 73'. That's the F250, Cougar 27RKS and Tracker Tournament 175TS. I don't know how strictly Colorado holds to the 70' maximum length, so if they "look the other way" you'll be OK, but if they are "sticklers for measuring rigs" you might want to do some serious measuring before you commit to that combination. I think you're going to be closer to 75' or possibly even longer.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:48 AM   #10
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Yes, understand the length concern. I've heard that they're not sticklers about it but I'm guessing that largely depends on the officer....so trying to stay under the 70' requirement.
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:21 PM   #11
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Look in curtmfg.com under specialized towing.
Two of the hitches are rated at 5,000 pounds. Another at 3000. Might fit your frame, might not.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:16 PM   #12
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I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative, but you've got to read all the fine print on the Curt Hitch information.

The Curt Hitch #13701 and 13702 are rated at 5000 lb towing/500 lb tongue weight. BOTH of them are listed as: "Fits frames up to 51" wide"

The Curt Hitch # 13703 is rated at 3500 lb towing/350 lb tongue weight. It is listed as: "Fits frames up to 72" wide"

The Cougar XLite 27RKS frame is 71" wide. So, Curt's 5000 pound hitches won't fit.

http://www.curtmfg.com/Category/89/RV%20Hitches

I've been through this "song and dance" with Keystone, Curt, the local welding shop, the CW service department in Houghton Lake, the Keystone dealership in Escanaba and the dealership in Onaway. There isn't a "commercially available" hitch that's rated about 3500/350 that will "bolt on" the 27RKS. It's a "custom build" to get anything greater than that capacity and even with my "lightweight boat" I wouldn't trust the Curt 13703 on a bumpy road with the gas tank and the live well full.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:42 PM   #13
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I am also not trying to be argumentative but a camera really isn't that necessary in my opinion. If something is going to happen it will happen whether you're watching it or not. I pull tractor trailer doubles and triples on the Ohio Turnpike for a living and we don't have any cameras on the back trailers. They're either hooked properly or they're not and they go where you go.

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Old 11-09-2015, 11:31 PM   #14
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I am also not trying to be argumentative but a camera really isn't that necessary in my opinion. If something is going to happen it will happen whether you're watching it or not. I pull tractor trailer doubles and triples on the Ohio Turnpike for a living and we don't have any cameras on the back trailers. They're either hooked properly or they're not and they go where you go.

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Losing a cover on a boat, having a seat come out of its deck mount, having the trailer tracking sideways from a blown tire, or any host of other issues are some of the reasons I can think of to monitor what's going on behind the fifth wheel. Commercial rigs are quite a bit more "sturdy" than a boat trailer with Chinese ST tires on it. Besides, almost all truckers have CB radios and talk to each other. So, if something happens, one of your "buddies" will likely be telling you in short order. That's not the same "reassurance" that most RV operators have.

Besides, the way most trucking firms operate, you seldom have the same trailers behind your tractor from trip to trip, so it would be impractical for you to install a camera for "your personal comfort level"... I tow the same trailers in the same order, so a permanent installation for me is much more practical. And, it's a "comfort level" that I find not only reassuring but also IMHO a safety device that helps. Do I "have to have it" Nope, but I also don't have to have a checklist that I follow when I hitch the rig and prepare for a trip, I don't need the air compressor, nor the torque wrench, nor the safety triangles, nor (add any of the stuff I carry), but for me, it helps me "feel good about things". There's enough comfort in that to cause me to suggest that a camera system is an "essential part" of towing a boat behind a fifth wheel.

But, you're right, if things are going to "fall off and come unglued" it'll happen whether there's a camera or not. It's just how far down the road you get before you stop and find out you lost your outboard and part of your trailer and caused an accident 50 miles back from that rest stop your DW insisted you stop at so she could go to the bathroom....
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:06 AM   #15
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My dad had his boat come loose behind his 5er. He thought he felt something, but didn't see anything. Then my mom noticed the back of the boat swing a little beyond the back of the camper. Finally my dad noticed it in his mirror, but it was just enough to see about the back 2-3" swinging out from behind. He was going 65 mph. He has no idea how long it was loose. Luckily he had his safety chains properly installed, they acted as a cradle and kept the tongue of the boat from digging in. The only damage was a small dent in the camper bumper. Two things have changed since this experience, a camera added and the nut on the ball is now tack welded. BTW, he checks the tightness of the ball before each trip and this one had actually been on the hitch for over 5 years, the nut was rusted and you probably couldn't get it off if you tried. I also tack weld the nut on all of my receiver hitches. A second receiver with different ball size set ups are cheap and actually easier than trying to change the ball out. A 3k lb boat swaying back and forth behind a 11k lb 5th wheel is a lot different than a tractor trailer double, the force just doesn't transfer through as much as you think. Like my dad said, he thought he felt something, but it wasn't that bad. Believe it or not, he said a flat tire on the boat was more noticeable.
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Old 11-10-2015, 06:42 AM   #16
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I knew you all would have a good answer. Where's the like button?

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Old 11-10-2015, 07:13 AM   #17
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Oh btw, you'd be surprised how many truck drivers either don't have or don't use a CB anymore. It's going by the wayside. Smartphones, traffic apps, gps....CB's are still around but not nearly as much. In my case we have thousands of trucks on the road, and if there's an accident or incident anywhere near me my phone rings. And the only cameras my company would install would probably be on the driver lol. Hint, think brown tractors. But things do happen to our equipment, lights go out, we get flats, brakes stick, doors bounce open. If we don't notice ourself someone will flash their lights and get our attention. We are trained to do mirror checks every 6-8 seconds. That may not always happen but I rely heavily on my mirrors. I always know what's around me and behind me. It's just a habit now. It keeps me alert, helps avoid tunnel vision. A rear camera is just another tool, and as you pointed out, a useful one.

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Old 11-10-2015, 03:40 PM   #18
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I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative, but you've got to read all the fine print on the Curt Hitch information.

The Curt Hitch #13701 and 13702 are rated at 5000 lb towing/500 lb tongue weight. BOTH of them are listed as: "Fits frames up to 51" wide"

The Curt Hitch # 13703 is rated at 3500 lb towing/350 lb tongue weight. It is listed as: "Fits frames up to 72" wide"

The Cougar XLite 27RKS frame is 71" wide. So, Curt's 5000 pound hitches won't fit.

http://www.curtmfg.com/Category/89/RV%20Hitches

I've been through this "song and dance" with Keystone, Curt, the local welding shop, the CW service department in Houghton Lake, the Keystone dealership in Escanaba and the dealership in Onaway. There isn't a "commercially available" hitch that's rated about 3500/350 that will "bolt on" the 27RKS. It's a "custom build" to get anything greater than that capacity and even with my "lightweight boat" I wouldn't trust the Curt 13703 on a bumpy road with the gas tank and the live well full.
John I have no idea what his frame width is but a 51" is likely too narrow.
I wouldn't tow that size boat behind a 5th wheel anyway. My mud boat is a 18 ft GoDevil, basically an aluminum boat with a 23 hp motor, and I don't intend to tow it behind the 5th.
I flat towed a CJ5 jeep all over the Rockies behind a Class C before the days of cameras. I don't want to do that again. The wife got very tired of going to look out the back window to see if the Jeep was still back there.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:32 PM   #19
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If you are concerned about the 1' over you could also have the welding shop shorten the boat trailer hitch by a foot.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:20 AM   #20
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Thanks All.
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