Do we get what we pay for?

DJ85 · 03-29-2012, 08:03 PM

Does everyone check the service they get when they buy a camper. I was just checking things out on the truck today. When I brought our new 5th wheel last year I had the dealership where we brought the camper install the 5th wheel hitch and the plug in inside the bed of the truck. What I found today did not make me think that it was done by someone who really care at all. Loose bolts missing lock washers the wiring harness was install by using those splice clamps ( the ones that corrode and damage the main wiring harness. Need less to say I spent the better part of the day straightening out what I should have know better then to have someone else do. It was a part of the deal so I thought what the heck go ahead. Should have know what I was getting when the shaving from drilling a hole in the bed for the plug in was not even cleaned up after installation. I am really not complaining because I should and knew that I should have done it myself. Just venting because I knew better but I really didn't think it would be that bad. Just seems like if you want or need anything anymore your better off doing it yourself.

Johnnyfry · 03-29-2012, 08:42 PM

No, the sad fact is, although we always pay for what we get, we don't always get what we pay for.

In the end we have to be vigilant and always check whatever work is done. Sometimes it is really tough, for instance, when you need service in a city far from home where you are just passing through. Watch like a hawk, look at all replaced parts and don't take any BS about not going in the shop or being able to talk to the tech doing the job because of "insurance regulations".

IMHO,
John

Comptech · 03-30-2012, 06:49 AM

I often find installations not up to my standards, many a time I have had to go back and detail or clean up an install. Even on new stuff I find later I wish I would have inspected it more carefully, as an example here is the email I sent to Keystone after we just bought our new 330RBK... Note the part where I found an installers pliers... lol

Dear Keystone...
After owning our new Cougar 330RBK 5th wheel for a short time I have discovered a few disappointments in the overall appearance and function of some items. First and mostly being the furnace system. After getting the unit home I discovered while using the furnace little to no air was making it to the master bedroom air vents. After playing with the unit and removing some of the covers to see why this might be happening, I first discovered a pair of “Kline Pliers” left behind the cover to the air handler under the fridge. They had the Name “Norm S” engraved into them. I am sure Norm is wondering where they went to… well I found them…. Second the way this unit was designed with the air handler system all the way to the back of the unit, there is no way for the forced air to be pushed all the way to the front bedroom, especially having to transverse a small 4” air pipe from the first floor air ducts to the bedroom air vents. So my solution was to go out and buy $50.00 worth of air vents that could be closed off, so that I could better control the air flow to areas that got too much air, right off the furnace, and send more air to the faraway places like the bedroom. One other minor detail was that there was a considerable amount of saw dust in the air duct system… something that should have been cleaned out.
The other disappointment was to discover only one of the three roof vents had a cover to it, the one in the bunkhouse room. This does not make sense to me…. Why bother only installing one out of three roof vent covers…? Another expense I will have to bite…
Overall we are happy with the RV but these details could be addressed.

Festus2 · 03-30-2012, 06:59 AM

jdaird
And Keystone's reply was ............?????? And did you ever hear from Norm S.???

Comptech · 03-30-2012, 07:35 AM

Blah Blah Blah...

Dear Mr. Aird:

Thank you for taking the time to compose the email below regarding your Cougar. Keystone appreciates your feedback. I am sorry to read that you have encountered a few concerns with your RV. Keystone provides each customer with a One Year Limited Warranty to take care of issues that may arise over this time.

Your concerns have been noted in your file for any future need. Keystone recommends that you work with your dealer to remedy any warranty issues.

Please know Keystone stands ready to assist you with any questions or concerns should the need arise.

Regards,

Michelle Diaz
Owner Relations

Comptech · 03-30-2012, 07:37 AM

And actually Norm had his full name scribed on the back, I just left it out for privacy.... Don't know why....

DJ85 · 03-30-2012, 08:17 AM

Well look at it this way. U got a free pair of pliers. Theres a bright side to everything just got to be willing to look or accept it.

Festus2 · 03-30-2012, 08:58 AM

Mmmmmmmm..Sounds like Keystone isn't willing to take any responsibility for the mess they left behind and the poor design of the duct work. "Your concerns have been noted in your file." But were they passed along to anyone who could or should do anything about it? Are we surprised?

therink · 03-30-2012, 01:22 PM

FWIW, I do almost every repair I can do myself on my fiver and vehicles. I also have high standards and am most always disappointed at the level of care and detail that goes into repairs or improvements that I hire out. Don't get me going about Camping World.
In the last two weeks, I installed my fiver hitch in my new truck and ez flex suspension kit on the fiver. Both jobs were difficult, but rewarding because I know they were done right. Not to mention I saved well over $600 in labor.
I really believe poor service is the standard these days. It is pretty sad.
Enjoy those pliers. I

poochy · 03-30-2012, 01:37 PM

got an email from the guote, ceo of camping world wanted to know how they did with us from start to finish on our fuzion 302 te lll boy I let him have it to no avail havent heard back nor do i exspect too happy camping

mhs4771 · 03-30-2012, 04:18 PM

I look at it this way: Even if I don't know exactly what I'm doing most likely a service tech doesn't either, the big difference, It's my unit so I want to make sure it's done correctly, the service tech gets paid no matter how he does the job and most of the time could care less if it's right or wrong he just wants to get it done and go home.

CarKath · 03-30-2012, 08:17 PM

Unfortunately it has turned to the point where you have have to ask. What exactly are you doing and how are you doing it. And you need too explain your expectations up front. If your expectations are not met, go elsewhere. There are other very reputable people out there that will exceed all expectations. I guess I have faith in the system combined with personal experience.

note: I personally do my own work. A lot of people do not have the skills to do so and some no interest. There are good people out there to help you, you just need to find them.

RCrawler · 03-30-2012, 08:26 PM

That is why I do all of my own work. When I needed my 5th wheel hitch installed, I checked around for labor prices to install. When they came back with a quote along with "we haven't installed that type of hitch before", I decided to do it myself, even with other time constraints. With having to drill out 4 large holes in the bed, I wanted it to be perfect, not close enough. Not everyone is as meticulous as I try to be.

However, being a truck mechanic/ fabricator by trade, I see both sides of the coin when it comes to quality work. On one hand, you want to do a professional, first class, show quality job with whatever you do. But, then you have a boss breathing down your neck wondering why it is taking this amount of time to do the job, it can sometimes be difficult to do the job the way YOU want to do it. He might care about what the finished product looks like, but HIS focus is just on getting it done. It's a fine line.

As for losing tools meaning sloppy work? No. I've lost enough tools in my career to fill another toolbox. It's part of the job. As much as you try to be careful, things go missing. Normally, you can stop and inventory your stuff and catch missing tools. But there are many times when you set your stuff on top of your box and go onto the next project immediately. Later when you realize you're missing something, the vehicle is long gone, or you don't remember where you last used it. Figure it will turn up eventually. I've opened up dashes in trucks and found screwdrivers that have been missing for a couple of years. Left flashlights in truck framerails or on steps that went 500 miles on a shift before being found.

Jason

CarKath · 03-30-2012, 08:52 PM

Well said Jason and definitely the other side of it.

Carl

Jim & Kay · 03-31-2012, 05:23 AM

We did a lot of research before purchasing our 291RLS HC 5er in Michigan, but knowing that the money saved by purchasing that far from VA, I'd be doing my warranty work myself. Unless it is a major issue, I will not go back to my dealer due to distance. In the past, our experience has been, if you want it done correctly, do it yourself. But the dealer had the 16K Superglide 5th wheel hitch installed at their local dealer down the street and I have to say they did a professional job.

In the past we have had both positive and negative experiences, but mostly negative.

DJ85 · 03-31-2012, 08:22 AM

Okay maybe this is my problem I have been on the other side as well after working for Ford as a senior master tech for 15 yrs, 25 yrs all togather. The way you keep customer is by doing a job like it was your own it doesn't take anymore time to do. I always tryed to do it right the first time and if I failed it wasn't because I didn't try. What I saw was a job that there is no way someone cared about the job they were doing period. Yes I am picky when it comes to my stuff but I at least expect all the parts to be installed. I got out of the automotive field because we were being pushed to sell sell sell everything. The warranty time was bring cut and they were wanting more for less. When I left repairing a car was getting close to being a car salesmen. (no disrespect meant so please don't take it that way)

but I have seen sales people that are better off on an island then in general population. I don't really ask for much just give me an effort and try and do a good job. Took me longer to do short cuts then just to do it right. We didn't get paid for come backs..

cumminsdad08 · 03-31-2012, 03:18 PM

i am an installer by trade, and i work on pc. rate system. i have learned the hard way, to clean up everything, go over everything twice, and check it 3 times. there are times i miss things, but do my best to catch them before my home owner does. not sticking up for your hitch installer, but i know its easy to miss the details and such, but that is what makes you a better installer, knowing what the issue was. if you never call in and tell them about this, then they have no chance of all at fixing what they did wrong for the future. sometimes installers can go years at makeing the some mistakes, and not even realize they are making them. this guy might not even make enough to buy the truck you got, much less ever need the hitch to go in it. i am not one to complain about service that i get. i just find that it is easier to fix it myself then to wait and fight with someone else. but i do make it a point to let them know there was an issue.

Exsailor · 03-31-2012, 03:28 PM

It's really shameful and a little scary if you are like me with too little skill and time to do major work yourself. I depend on this site and others to check up on dealer "recommendations" like:
You need to have us inspect this roof semiannualy
You need us to adjust your brakes annually
Those tires don't need to be balanced
Etc
I do as much as I can but when service is required I ask a LOT of questions and keep receipts. They assume we are all rich I guess

cumminsdad08 · 04-01-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exsailor

It's really shameful and a little scary if you are like me with too little skill and time to do major work yourself. I depend on this site and others to check up on dealer "recommendations" like:
You need to have us inspect this roof semiannualy
You need us to adjust your brakes annually
Those tires don't need to be balanced
Etc
I do as much as I can but when service is required I ask a LOT of questions and keep receipts. They assume we are all rich I guess

i feel you there. i am very skilled in construction end of things, but technical ends can be tricky for me. i don't do anything to my trucks, oil changes tend to be agravating to me. so i do depend on garages and places of such for work on my truck, and i had what i thought was a great garage, but 2500 bucks later on my state inspection, i found out how easy it was to be taken advantaged of when you trusted them for so many years.

Comptech · 04-02-2012, 07:49 AM

My major issue was really with the design of the air handling system, And I wanted Keystone to know they should look into a solution. My guess really is that they already know about it and don't care or are not willing to acknowledge that they designed it poorly... Probably both... Finding the pliers was not my main complaint, just a side note to them...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdaird

I often find installations not up to my standards, many a time I have had to go back and detail or clean up an install. Even on new stuff I find later I wish I would have inspected it more carefully, as an example here is the email I sent to Keystone after we just bought our new 330RBK... Note the part where I found an installers pliers... lol

Dear Keystone...
After owning our new Cougar 330RBK 5th wheel for a short time I have discovered a few disappointments in the overall appearance and function of some items. First and mostly being the furnace system. After getting the unit home I discovered while using the furnace little to no air was making it to the master bedroom air vents. After playing with the unit and removing some of the covers to see why this might be happening, I first discovered a pair of “Kline Pliers” left behind the cover to the air handler under the fridge. They had the Name “Norm S” engraved into them. I am sure Norm is wondering where they went to… well I found them…. Second the way this unit was designed with the air handler system all the way to the back of the unit, there is no way for the forced air to be pushed all the way to the front bedroom, especially having to transverse a small 4” air pipe from the first floor air ducts to the bedroom air vents. So my solution was to go out and buy $50.00 worth of air vents that could be closed off, so that I could better control the air flow to areas that got too much air, right off the furnace, and send more air to the faraway places like the bedroom. One other minor detail was that there was a considerable amount of saw dust in the air duct system… something that should have been cleaned out.
The other disappointment was to discover only one of the three roof vents had a cover to it, the one in the bunkhouse room. This does not make sense to me…. Why bother only installing one out of three roof vent covers…? Another expense I will have to bite…
Overall we are happy with the RV but these details could be addressed.

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