Inverter Outlets Not Working

[sourdough]

It's going to be pretty simple I imagine. In my previous post I mentioned that most things electrical are ruled out. The exception will be the breaker to the outlets whether gfci protected or not. I imagine the "inverted" was written on there in the event you went with solar at some point, why I don't know so just forget that for the moment. You are chasing 120vac going to the outlets, that comes from that breaker...no matter what is beyond it. We haven't ascertained that you have 120vac leaving that breaker. Have you just kicked it off then popped it back on to make sure it hasn't broken continuity? If you have then you need to check that you have 120vac coming out of it so you won't be spinning your wheels checking outlets.

Once you determine you have 120vac coming out of that breaker it will then be Easter Egg time trying to find the first outlet in the daisy chain to look for a loose wire if flipping the breaker does not correct it. Do you have an outlet tester (a little plug with lights on it)? Easy and quick to use to see if you have power at any/all outlets. Again, the inverter nor gfci will have no part in this so don't let that confuse you. Once you get power to the receptacles you can worry about adding a gfci. The dealer would correct all that for free if they were near but they're not. They should have made sure they all worked and a good PDI would have made doubly sure but here we are.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Y9u really need to answer the simple questions above for us to be able help. Have you verified the output of the breaker?

[GrnEyz]

Oh sorry YES. That was one of the first things I did. All breakers were showing 118-119 in volts. Checked them again just now to be sure. And yes, I do have one of those little volt testers so I'm going to find that and start checking outlets but I'm pretty sure I tried that with my multimeter and got no readings. Will that not work to check the outlets? Is the wire too deep in the outlet to show? I will let you know what I find. Isn't it the same thing if I just plug a little lamp in?

[sourdough]

So to be clear you checked that breaker that says gfci on it, on the black wire(screw), leaving the breaker? If that's the case and all the outlets are dead then you're kind of in a quandry. There should be (or have been) a gfci outlet. If so, and it was wired for one, the gfci forgotten and daisy chained from there I would check the outlet in the bathroom first. Pull it and see if there isn't a loose wire. Below is a link to your trailer, note in the video at approx. the 1:34 mark and forward the outlet over the bathroom sink; that appears to be a gfci plug. If you do the 360 walk through it opens in the bathroom. Look right at the bathroom sink and there is a gfci plug there. If yours isn't I would suspect something went amiss at that location.

https://www.generalrv.com/product/ne...kwe-1518325-29

Edit: You need to cut the AC power to the trailer before you start digging around in that receptacle.

[wrvond]

Originally Posted by sourdough

Did she say she had the SF400 in a different thread somewhere? I did not see that. Obviously if she did she would have an inverter. In post 19 she specifies the trailer, '22 Springdale 242. The Keystone website says the trailer comes "prepped" for solar with the SolarFlex 200 which does not have an inverter - see tabs for "exterior" and "solarflex";

https://www.keystonerv.com/product/s...rplans/242RKWE

Being plugged into shore power and everything else working on AC an inverter shouldn't be in play. That would also rule out the power cord the OP is worried about.

Apparently I read the SF400 in post number 1 which is not her camper. Hijacked threads are so confusing.
Still in post 23 she says the air conditioner and microwave work on battery - that is either incorrect or she has the SF600i. I've read this entire thread too many times and now I'm not even sure what the problem is. The outlets don't work at all, or they only work on shore power, or they don't work on shore power but do work on battery. I can't tell anymore.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wrvond

Apparently I read the SF400 in post number 1 which is not her camper. Hijacked threads are so confusing.
Still in post 23 she says the air conditioner and microwave work on battery - that is either incorrect or she has the SF600i. I've read this entire thread too many times and now I'm not even sure what the problem is. The outlets don't work at all, or they only work on shore power, or they don't work on shore power but do work on battery. I can't tell anymore.

In that line of trailer, brand new, she does not have an inverter from the factory that is going to run her microwave and A/C. She said her battery was running all things including A/C items, including the micro and A/C...that's not right for an entry level trailer, new, with no expensive mods - just not knowing. There won't be an inverter and there will be a connection (loose/broken/missing) problem IF there isn't a gfci outlet being overlooked from everything I can assess from the comments.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by wrvond

Apparently I read the SF400 in post number 1 which is not her camper. Hijacked threads are so confusing.
Still in post 23 she says the air conditioner and microwave work on battery - that is either incorrect or she has the SF600i. I've read this entire thread too many times and now I'm not even sure what the problem is. The outlets don't work at all, or they only work on shore power, or they don't work on shore power but do work on battery. I can't tell anymore.

The Springdale line for 2022 comes standard with the SolarFlex 200 system. The ONLY "electrical upgrade" option is the extra cost lithium battery. The Solar Flex 400 and 600 are not available in the Springdale line. It's an entry level trailer with entry level features and few, if any optional upgrades. The only options listed on the Keystone website (in addition to the Li battery) are a 12 volt refrigerator and an LED television. . It can't even be ordered with a table/chairs to replace the dinette seating.

[GrnEyz]

Sorry for the confusion. I'll see if I can present it more clearly. If you look at the photo of my outlets in the kitchen, bathroom and outside, you will not see any GFCI on any of them. (Pic 1) And yes, I did watch that video and you can plainly see a red GFCI in the bathroom on the video, but they must have forgot it on mine!(Pic2) And if you look at the pic of my power panel, (Pic3) it clearly says on the bottom breaker "GFCI" and then "Inverted" is written in the box. Putting all that aside and please correct me if I'm wrong the next pic is what I have narrowed it down to. I have a 30 amp box (A) that is good and I'm plugged into it. My micro, a/c etc. work fine from that. However, my outlets do not work in any room. The normal assumption would be to reset a GFCI button (correct?) Unfortunately I do not have any GFCI outlets to reset. So simply by deduction, I have to assume one of the outlets was shorted out and are probably all on the same chain but my question is still....how do I fix them? Do I make sense? Because now I'm dazed and confused!!

[GrnEyz]

P.S. Forgive my lack of RV terminology but what does "Entry Level trailer" with "Entry Level Features mean exactly?

[sourdough]

I know this seems confusing but it's really simple; you're following 120vac wherever it goes, or is supposed to go. Please read my post #44; the bathroom outlet which is not, but should be, a gfci outlet. It should daisy chain to all the other outlets apparently from there. There is no "short", there is an "open". As I said pull that outlet out of the wall and see what you have. I know it seems confusing but it is really pretty simple; your electricity starts a A and has to get to B, C etc. It is 2 wires (forget ground at the moment) and they hop through multiple "pressed" connections in those outlets trying to "keep the power going". Once something comes loose in one of those cheap outlets that "power train" stops right there. You need to find that place by pulling out those outlets and finding what came loose.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by GrnEyz

P.S. Forgive my lack of RV terminology but what does "Entry Level trailer" with "Entry Level Features mean exactly?

Keystone "groups" their trailer lines into different categories. Through the years, the names of those categories has changed with "marketing acceptance".

In the past, those categories were entry level, standard level and luxury level. Obviously, the price goes up as the level goes up.

About 5 or 6 years ago, marketing changed those "names of the levels" to value level, premium level and luxury level.

Now, Keystone is calling the "most expensive" (my terms not theirs) Luxury trailers, the mid price range is Premium trailers. The Hideout line is currently referred to as "Comfort Trailers" and Springdale is "travel trailer". This year, they've completely dropped any reference to 'low priced base level trailers".

Take a look at the italicized descriptions on the Keystone "brand directory" located here: https://www.keystonerv.com/product-lines You can compare the description with the "price per foot" that is located on each trailer (you have to do the math: Each floorplan has a "starting at price" and a "length". Divide the price by the length to get the "price per foot".

You'll see that even though the names of the categories change, the lowest "price per foot" is Springdale and Hideout, and the options available to "customize those trailer brands" is virtually absent.

As you go up in price per foot, the "category changes" as seen in the italicized description on the product line link (above).

In short, Springdale is one of two "lowest price trailer brands" manufactured by Keystone. As such, there isn't a lot of "high tech innovation" or "luxury features" (although Keystone does add a lot of "bling" to catch the eye of potential buyers).

That's "entry level" as was used years ago....

Chevrolet did it as well, if you remember the Biscayne, Bel Aire and Impala. Pontiac had the Catalina and Bonneville and Ford had the Custom 500, Fairlane 500 and Galaxy lines..... Entry level, Mid level and Luxury levels in cars.... It's the same with trailers.....

[GrnEyz]

OK Sourdough! I pulled all of my outlets out and each of them had 2 heavy gauge wires tightly attached to them. Do I need to take the outlets apart and check the connections?
Maybe I should just go get a couple of GFCI outlets and install them while I'm at it?

[sourdough]

You need to find that 120vac first. All of the plugs you pulled are dead right? No power into them? For that I normally use a VOM to verify. If all of them are dead with no power you need to make sure that 1) you have 120vac leaving on that black wire from the breaker then 2) find out where the wire from the breaker goes first. Is there anything at all that works on 120vac that isn't working? The wire may go to something else other than just receptacles. I wouldn't think they would run the power to some appliance then the receptacles but they do some weird stuff. Also just something to think about but usually the end of the outlet chain will only have one wire....so there may be another outlet, or something, at the end of that romex run. Have you looked inside the passthrough thoroughly including the ceiling for an outlet?

[sourdough]

I didn't go back a re read everything but you did say that you checked the outside outlet right?

[GrnEyz]

Yes outside not working either. I'm not a quitter but I cannot see myself having to start to take off panels/cabinets whatever to check the wires through the walls (and shouldn't have to with a brand new trailer) It's pretty sad that the people who sold it to me, the people who made it just ignored me unless I can tow it to them! If I find out the "hard way" they simply "overlooked" the GFCI safety feature required by law.....hmmm I guess I should just get use to having extension cords going all through my trailer until one day when I can bring this puppy to an "authorized dealer" to fix. You have been a super big help and furthered my "technical education" I am very grateful.

[JRTJH]

I would first verify that there is 120 VAC at the circuit breaker by checking the voltage between the connector screw on the breaker and the neutral bar. You can see that connector screw with a black wire attached to it on every one of the branch circuit breakers in this photo. If there is 120 volts on the circuit breaker marked "INVERTED/GFCI" in your photo, then trace that ROMEX wire to the first outlet (closest to the power distribution panel) and verify that voltage is present at those outlets. If so, move to the next closest. If not, the problem is between the circuit breaker and the first outlet.

Note: when you open the power distribution panel, you'll see the faceplate with all the writing on it. You'll need to CAREFULLY remove the faceplate to access the circuit breaker connections. REMEMBER, THERE IS 120 VAC BEHIND THE FACEPLATE, SO MAKE SURE YOU DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING OR YOU MAY ELECTROCUTE YOURSELF..... BE CAREFUL !!!!!!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by GrnEyz

OK Sourdough! I pulled all of my outlets out and each of them had 2 heavy gauge wires tightly attached to them. Do I need to take the outlets apart and check the connections?
Maybe I should just go get a couple of GFCI outlets and install them while I'm at it?

Yes, you'll need to take the outlets apart to check the connections. Behind the rear plate you will find "knife connectors" with the wires "pushed down into them to make contact"... Often a wire will slip out of the "knife connector" and that will effectively "disconnect that outlet and all other outlets down the daisy chain line".... Here are some photos of the knife connectors inside those outlets. It should be apparent just how "fragile" or "sensitive to vibrations" that they are
...

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by GrnEyz

Yes outside not working either. I'm not a quitter but I cannot see myself having to start to take off panels/cabinets whatever to check the wires through the walls (and shouldn't have to with a brand new trailer) It's pretty sad that the people who sold it to me, the people who made it just ignored me unless I can tow it to them! If I find out the "hard way" they simply "overlooked" the GFCI safety feature required by law.....hmmm I guess I should just get use to having extension cords going all through my trailer until one day when I can bring this puppy to an "authorized dealer" to fix. You have been a super big help and furthered my "technical education" I am very grateful.

Karen, John is right. It did not register you said you hadn't opened the outlet boxes, I just read they were tight. Open them and check for a loose wire - start at that bathroom box. You also verified that you had 120v coming from that breaker with a VOM or how? I know this is frustrating but you shouldn't have to be tearing out walls or panels. I feel it will be a loose connection if that voltage is coming out of that breaker. It won't be much to take those boxes apart and inspect those connections and with luck that's where you will find your problem - it's happened many times. Good luck.

[GrnEyz]

Ok I'm about to unplug again and check each outlet box but here's my question. The outlet box appears to be glued shut and even though I know I'm unplugged, should I be prying it open? Here's a pic and also a pic showing the power output from the breaker

[sourdough]

Since you're not in the power panel leave the trailer plugged in if you need the A/C. Just flip that breaker that says gfci and you won't have power to the outlets.

Look closely at those boxes, that front/back should probably snap together. Barring something really weird I can't figure they would glue them together since you have to get inside of them. Of course, you should have had a gfci.... See if they don't snap/pop apart - it isn't going to hurt for one to open up.