E-15......

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by sourdough

And yet another reason not to buy a diesel. I can see it now; want to make a 300 mile camping trip for a few days but it takes me 5 days to get that far because I stop at every fast food joint along the way for fries. I love french fries....

Danny eat that dehydrated hash browns you bought and forget about those fries!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

Danny eat that dehydrated hash browns you bought and forget about those fries!

^^^^ I probably would if I didn't have to cook them while driving!

[gearhead]

I think we may be eating our seed corn.
Based on a previous post I thought that ethanol produced a better fuel burn and the inference was less pollution. Now uncle Joe wants more ethanol but the tree hungers say that causes more pollution. I am so totally lost.

[NH_Bulldog]

The issues with ethanol are that although it is higher octane than gasoline, it has less “energy” than gas which makes it less efficient. Your “savings” in cost are offset by needing more fuel to do the same amount of work. Although ethanol itself produces less harmful emissions, all the equipment that is used to produce and farm the crops that ethanol is derived from run on petroleum fuels, which as production increases, offsets any environmental gains. Although vehicles manufactured after 2001 can tolerate E15, it should never be used in small engines like mowers, chainsaws, weed trimmers, motorcycles, generators, etc (and especially not boat motors). Finally, crop space for fuel production crops displace food crops causing food costs to increase. E10 is bad enough, E85 is a disaster and E15 is a solution looking for a problem.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

Finally, crop space for fuel production crops displace food crops causing food costs to increase.

As someone that has been involved in the ag sector for over 45 years, this is factually false. Acreage devoted to corn grain production is relatively constant. Increasing the percentage of corn grain going into ethanol production will increase the cost to feed it to livestock and/or reduce the volume available for export, but it will have no impact on “food production acres”. Folks should understand that all that corn we see growing every summer in the Midwest is NOT a crop grown for human consumption. I suppose you “could” eat it, but most folks would not find it particularly tasty lol.

[NH_Bulldog]

Originally Posted by jfk69

As someone that has been involved in the ag sector for over 45 years, this is factually false. Acreage devoted to corn grain production is relatively constant. Increasing the percentage of corn grain going into ethanol production will increase the cost to feed it to livestock and/or reduce the volume available for export, but it will have no impact on “food production acres”. Folks should understand that all that corn we see growing every summer in the Midwest is NOT a crop grown for human consumption. I suppose you “could” eat it, but most folks would not find it particularly tasty lol.

I stand corrected in my poorly worded statement. Perhaps it is more accurate to state as you did “Increasing the percentage of corn grain going into ethanol production will increase the cost to feed it to livestock and/or reduce the volume available for export”. Which in turn drives up food costs?

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by jfk69

As someone that has been involved in the ag sector for over 45 years, this is factually false. Acreage devoted to corn grain production is relatively constant. Increasing the percentage of corn grain going into ethanol production will increase the cost to feed it to livestock and/or reduce the volume available for export, but it will have no impact on “food production acres”. Folks should understand that all that corn we see growing every summer in the Midwest is NOT a crop grown for human consumption. I suppose you “could” eat it, but most folks would not find it particularly tasty lol.

Help me understand this. If demand goes up does not the need for planting/harvesting more acerage? Does that not create less product available as this year's crop is in the ground in a lot of the country?

Corn is consumed in vast quantities as it's used in just about every processed food product. High fructose corn syrup, corn oil (often listed as vegitable oil), corn flour, starched from corn and the list goes on. Add the inflationary rise of meats (again, corn feed or suplimented) everything will be effected at the worst possible time when the Ukrainians have burning iron in their fields instead of corn and wheat shoots.

I'm old enough to remember when the original ethenol mandate rolled out. Corn prices along with ever product it's in saw price hikes. Now obviously I'm not a big grain producter, patroleum expert or economist but I do try to recall history and read about it so this is my opinion, yours may vary.

[jfk69]

The largest uses of corn in the US are feed (33%) and ethanol production (27%). Exports account for about 11%. Other processing (your high fructose corn syrup example) is around 11%. In most years, somewhere between 11-16% of corn grain is in carry forward inventory. This is from a total US yield of 14.2 billion bushels (2020 data). So possible affects of increased ethanol production “could” cause a slight increase in corn price. This would affect the largest users more than the smallest users. However, it could also result in a decrease in, say, exports instead. Keeping it home so to speak.

My response was to the premise that “food acres” would be taken out of production. The reality is that someone growing food crops, is generally NOT going to convert those acres to grow corn. The barriers to entry (equipment, acreage, technology) are very high. They would also be leveraging into a market that historically has a lower ROI than a food crop. It doesn’t make sense, not to mention the majority of food crops are not grown where corn is grown.

The price increases we see at the grocery store in the coming months are going to be very real, but ethanol production isn’t going to be the driver of those increases.

[Falcon67]

The bottom line with ethanol or methanol is that the higher percentage of mix requires more "care". Alcohol is corrosive to aluminum especially and likes to absorb water unless kept well sealed up in a system or drum. "E85" can be anywhere from E70-E95 per the fuel spec. You'd not really know what you have IMHO without taking a hydrometer reading.

I run a race car that uses pure methanol. If the car sits less than two weeks between races, the engine is run down on fogging oil, carb is removed and "washed" with WD-40, the fuel cell topped off and any vents sealed up. If longer than 2 weeks the fuel is removed, a gas carb installed and some fuel - usually VP110 because that's what I have - is run through the engine and fuel system. Also, the fuel filter - 100 micron stainless - is replaced every 2 months. So there's a good amount of maintenance involved.

For all the other stuff - lawn, generator, etc - I use 87 octane 10% and just add Stabil to every 5 gallon jug. No issues even when equipment sits for 2~3 months.

[skmct]

Originally Posted by sourdough

The fuel situation hasn't changed. There is talk from DC that they will relax the production limitations for 15% ethanol but that hasn't happened. As I mentioned in response to your original post I haven't seen enough E85 pumps traveling around to mount to a hill of beans and DC didn't say he was going to outlaw all the other fuels so I plan to keep on keeping on.

Premium in a gas engine; my 6.4 has 89 recommended. I run that and 87 depending on what is at the pump when not towing. Loaded I run 89 and preferably 91. The 6.4 does show slight improvement using 91 vs 89. At 93 I find no difference over 91. I have no idea what the 6.6 likes.

I don't wish to be political here but I read they wish to mandate e85. Which make no sense to me . the more sugar the lower your fuel milage which increases oil consumption . Their also is a study out there that proves the process of turning corn to sugar causes more clean air problems than burning ethanol free.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by skmct

I don't wish to be political here but I read they wish to mandate e85. Which make no sense to me . the more sugar the lower your fuel milage which increases oil consumption . Their also is a study out there that proves the process of turning corn to sugar causes more clean air problems than burning ethanol free.

Well, I'm an old "butterbean kind of farmer" (sharecropper's son who spent every Saturday in the bean patch). Seems to me that burning diesel in a tractor to till the ground, run the planter to bury the corn seed, run a bigger tractor to harvest the ears when they're ready, then process it and drag it to the silo, pump it into the silo, then pump it out, load it in 18 wheelers and drag those trailers to an ethanol plant with a diesel truck, then use electricity to cook, heat and process the corn so it can be "kept warm to ferment", then use electricity to distill the alcohol, put it in tanker trailers to truck to the oil refineries, then "mix the brew, either e-10, e-15 or e-85, truck it with a diesel to a service station and then pump it with electricity into our vehicles...

Well, there sure seems to be a bucketload of diesel needed to run the equipment to get that corn into the fuel tanks at the service station, not to mention all the "carbon footprint natural gas/diesel" that's burned to provide the electricity to process it along the way.....

This old "farmboy" while I've never sat in a tractor cab that's guided by a GPS through the corn rows, I can still walk behind the equipment shed on any corn farm and count the diesel tanks needed to keep that tractor "rumbling through the field"....

How much "fossil fuel" is needed to make a gallon of ethanol ??? My guess it that it's pretty close to a tradeoff when it comes to what what it takes to move a tow vehicle down the road a given distance....

In other words, I can come to grips with how there's much difference in the amount of fossil fuel needed to make that alcohol to put in a car and the amount of fossil fuel it takes to make that car go the same distance on "real gas.

Maybe somebody a lot smarter than me has it all figured out, but just hasn't yet wrote it down in words that make sense to me....

[Hodgy]

If the idiots have their way you won't have a truck to fuel by 2035. It will be all electric.

[Hodgy]

The Canadian government just proposed a "green tax" on pick up trucks. $1000 on an 150, $3000 on a 250 and $4000 on a 350.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ucks-1.6421384

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...releasing-them


.

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by jfk69

As someone that has been involved in the ag sector for over 45 years, this is factually false. Acreage devoted to corn grain production is relatively constant. Increasing the percentage of corn grain going into ethanol production will increase the cost to feed it to livestock and/or reduce the volume available for export, but it will have no impact on “food production acres”. Folks should understand that all that corn we see growing every summer in the Midwest is NOT a crop grown for human consumption. I suppose you “could” eat it, but most folks would not find it particularly tasty lol.

Nonsense! I drive out near field corn fields while the field corn is still fairly new/young and steal few ears and it tastes great even boiling with butter and salt. Then again, I don't have a refined sense of taste.

Not sure if there is a difference between this E-15 folks talk about here and E-85 which it is called at service stations. In any case, I had a 2013 F150 with a "Flex Fuel" engine. Last new truck I bought. Dealer told me NOT to use E-85 as it actually cost more with poorer mileage and the engine would burn hotter. Don't know if this is a fact but I never did to save a couple cents.

I rebuild carburetors for a liviing...old stinky carburetors and the ones that had a lot of the regular ethanol fuel sitting in them drew water and almost always show white powdery corrosion. The ethanol gas is the bane of bikes with fiberglass gas tanks and same for the boating folks as I understand it.

Governor Rick Perry petitioned the Fed to allow us (Texas) to avoid putting ethanol in our gas and his argument was that it wasn't being fed to cattle and that it would make it harder for beef producers to make a living. I know Gov. Rick may not have been the sharpest crayon in the box but that was his argument.

[jfk69]

George, you are correct. But that window of opportunity is very narrow. Field corn gets starchy and nasty fast.

[NH_Bulldog]

Let’s be clear, we are talking about E15 which is gasoline with 15% ethanol. Currently the most widespread fuel mixture is E10 which of course is gasoline with 10% ethanol added (unless you buy gasoline that specifically states that it is ethanol free).

E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. The OP posted about a recent announcement that the Feds are going to allow a more expanded seasonal use of 5% more ethanol than is currently permitted. Gasoline with 15% ethanol is currently banned from June through September, and the announcement temporarily lifts that ban.

For what it’s worth, most cars/trucks can run gasoline with 15% ethanol, but even 10% is bad for small engines; motorcycles, lawnmowers, generators, chainsaws, etc. I just happened to notice today when I filled my new truck with gas for the first time that it even says E0-E15.

Since is an RV forum and this topic was brought up in the towing section, maybe we should talk about the impacts to towing performance and mileage (real or imagined). I guess if I was too concerned about gas mileage, I would have kept my F150 with the Ecoboost V6 which gave me 10 mpg towing and 22 mpg unloaded on the highway. Instead, I have a brand new 7.3L (445 cubic inch) big block V8 that gets 16 mpg on the highway and as yet unknown towing mileage……

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by jfk69

George, you are correct. But that window of opportunity is very narrow. Field corn gets starchy and nasty fast.

I'm not sure what starchy and nasty field corn is. Growing up (long time ago now) there wasn't much corn unless you grew it.....or went to a farmer that grew it (not for ethanol) and picked it. It was ALL field corn. We loved it; fresh "roastin' ears" of corn, corn on the cob for dinner, mom stripped the cobs and we had fresh corn, fried corn. Starchy and nasty, nah, we just weren't spoiled like we are today and enjoyed what we could get.

First time I actually knew there was "sweet" corn grown in a field was probably 1988. Helped a fellow out and he gave me 2 cases of corn they were harvesting - funny lookin' stuff - yellow and white kernels. Cooked some of those things up and we were shocked (DW and I), swore someone injected them with sugar. I buy those things by the case now when they come in but still love my old "starchy and nasty" field corn for the unique flavor.....and it reminds me of "back when".

[gearhead]

I've got plenty of those field corn memories. Not sure where the line is between field corn and sweet corn is but I sure ate a lot of corn out of the garden.

[jfk69]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I'm not sure what starchy and nasty field corn is. Growing up (long time ago now) there wasn't much corn unless you grew it.....or went to a farmer that grew it (not for ethanol) and picked it. It was ALL field corn. We loved it; fresh "roastin' ears" of corn, corn on the cob for dinner, mom stripped the cobs and we had fresh corn, fried corn. Starchy and nasty, nah, we just weren't spoiled like we are today and enjoyed what we could get.

First time I actually knew there was "sweet" corn grown in a field was probably 1988. Helped a fellow out and he gave me 2 cases of corn they were harvesting - funny lookin' stuff - yellow and white kernels. Cooked some of those things up and we were shocked (DW and I), swore someone injected them with sugar. I buy those things by the case now when they come in but still love my old "starchy and nasty" field corn for the unique flavor.....and it reminds me of "back when".

Awesome. You’re welcome to it. I’ll feed the livestock with it lol

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by jfk69

Awesome. You’re welcome to it. I’ll feed the livestock with it lol

I'm not a "corn grower" and don't know the ins and outs of growing "good" corn from "bad" corn. I do know that all the years that we picked "field" corn it was planted in rows in large fields. In our part of the country that has now stopped pretty much as far as I can tell. The fields nowadays look like it is just mass planted without rows or any kind of order. When they come in to harvest they just combine it and carry it off. I've not been in those fields to get corn as they are a newer kind of thing (last 10-15 years) so figure there is probably a difference maybe between what used to be field corn and feed corn these days...??