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Old 11-28-2021, 05:35 PM   #41
rhagfo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHaven View Post
I know 5ers are trendy, but there's a lot to love about travel trailers. Especially if you ever begin to enter that twilight zone where Stairs Are Not Your Friends.
I am not sure "Trendy" is the reason many go for a 5er.

I believe the #1 reason is stability while towing.

The #2 reason would be great amounts of storage.

The stability is why you see 250/2500's towing 40' 18,000# 5ers, the 5er doesn't tell them they are overloaded. They throw on a set of air bags, and run on overloaded tires until they have a blow out.
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Old 11-28-2021, 09:24 PM   #42
MarvnMabel
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24RDS Hauler

24RDS

Unloaded Weight: 7,310lbs

GVWR: 10,000lbs

GAWR (each axle): 4400lbs



2500:

Max Payload: 3029lbs

5th wheel hitch: 300lbs

Passengers: 450lbs



Based on these numbers:

Pin weight: 1462 - 2000lbs (let's assume 2000lbs)



3029lbs (gross payload) - 2000lb (pin weight) - 450lb (passengers) - 300lbs (hitch) = 279lbs (breathing room



Any advice would be greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]

Good gosh, the wife and I towed our 24RDS all over the Rocky Mountains last year with a 2014 GMC 1500 W/6.2 Litre
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Old 03-23-2022, 08:23 AM   #43
falcondan95705
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Looking good to me...If you decide to go 5th wheel there are trailers that are 1/2 ton pullable. If for any reason if decide to go larger, you are heading to one ton territory...
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Old 03-23-2022, 02:53 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by falcondan95705 View Post
If you decide to go 5th wheel there are trailers that are 1/2 ton pullable.
As long as you don't accept the front decal on faith.
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Old 04-29-2022, 05:47 AM   #45
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We upgraded our rig to 2022 Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton FW-29RLI. My first FW.
My truck is a Ford F150 2018 6 cyl ecoboost with 6.5' bed. 3.55 gears-157 WB.

I am concerned that I have enough truck.
My math:
RLI unloaded is 9,070
F150 Tow Cap is 10,700
RLI Pin Wt 1623#s
F150 GAWR is 3800#s or Payload of 1820#s.
The dealer is putting Helper Springs on my F150.
I know I'm at the top of end with a difference of 1,630#s between my Unloaded RFI vs. GVMR. Am I heading for trouble thinking I can tow the RLI through PA and WV?
A new truck wasnt in the equation. But!
Your thoughts and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Thank you
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:01 AM   #46
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I appreciate your advice. I'm the guy your talking about.
I bought a FW thinking and advised by trustworthy dealer that I can pull with my F150.
I'm regretting now having to go to my Chief Financial Officer (wife and best friend) to announce we need and F250. Thanks.
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:25 AM   #47
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That 29RLI Fifth Wheel is 11K GVWR and 33' long. 11000 x 23% = 2530 pin weight + 150 - 200 lbs. for hitch = 2700 to 2800 pounds. WAY to much for an F-150 IMHO. You would be much better served to skip the F-250 and go to F-350 SRW for that trailer. Check the placard inside the drivers door of your truck to get the actual payload of your truck. Now subtract anything not on the truck from the manufacturer, tools, bed cover, additional passengers... this is your actual payload. As you can see your F-150 is no match for that 5th wheel.
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:28 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by DominickP53 View Post
We upgraded our rig to 2022 Keystone Cougar 1/2 ton FW-29RLI. My first FW.
My truck is a Ford F150 2018 6 cyl ecoboost with 6.5' bed. 3.55 gears-157 WB.

I am concerned that I have enough truck.
My math:
RLI unloaded is 9,070
F150 Tow Cap is 10,700
RLI Pin Wt 1623#s
F150 GAWR is 3800#s or Payload of 1820#s.
The dealer is putting Helper Springs on my F150.
I know I'm at the top of end with a difference of 1,630#s between my Unloaded RFI vs. GVMR. Am I heading for trouble thinking I can tow the RLI through PA and WV?
A new truck wasnt in the equation. But!
Your thoughts and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Unfortunately I think you have some bad news for the CFO.

Your F150 will exceed the trucks payload of 1820 by a couple hundred pounds just by hooking up the 5th wheel....that is BEFORE you or any other passengers and gear that will be in the truck is even factored into the calculation.

A good rule of thumb is to use 22% of trailer GVWR as pin weight.
At 10K loaded, even that '1/2 ton' engineered 5th wheel (which typically have a slightly lighter pin weight percentage) will have a pin weight of 2K or more. Add in several hundred more pounds for the occupants of the truck, the hitch itself and any other gear and tools and you see how easy it is to be several hundred pounds overloaded.

The fine print indicates that '1/2 ton' trailers require a 'properly equipped' 1/2 ton tow vehicle. Unfortunately this typically means the unicorn Ford F150 HDPP (heavy duty payload package), in XL trim, standard cab. Those will get you 2400 and up in available payload.

Nothing the dealer can do - helper springs, air bags etc. is going to alter the engineered GVWR (and hence the payload) of your tow vehicle.
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:33 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
I think you missed the point being made.

It matters not whether you have a 2000 pound rear axle or a 20000 pound rear axle. The payload is calculated based on truck GVWR minus curb weight. The remaining weight is called "payload"... Payload has NOTHING to do with axle ratings.....

Granted, on a typical truck, the larger the payload the larger the axle ratings, but ..... Axle ratings do not have any direct bearing on payload or how it's calculated. It's simply two numbers, GVWR minus Curb Weight....
Please help me understand what the most important and simplest factors in determining whether my F150 Ecoboost can pull a 1/2 5th Wheel. I'm told to consider the Tow Capacity of Truck minus the GVMR of the FW. And consider the Pin weight with reference to GAWR of Truck. Can you help me determine what is most important to ensure I have enough tow and hauling capacity and more importantly that I'm traveling safely. Humble FW newbie. Thanks.
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:41 AM   #50
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That 29RLI Fifth Wheel is 11K GVWR and 33' long. 11000 x 23% = 2530 pin weight + 150 - 200 lbs. for hitch = 2700 to 2800 pounds. WAY to much for an F-150 IMHO. You would be much better served to skip the F-250 and go to F-350 SRW for that trailer. Check the placard inside the drivers door of your truck to get the actual payload of your truck. Now subtract anything not on the truck from the manufacturer, tools, bed cover, additional passengers... this is your actual payload. As you can see your F-150 is no match for that 5th wheel.
Texas Steve, thank you.
The dealer told me they use Gross Axle Weight Ratio rather than Payload. My GAWR is 3800#s. They said this is a grey area? What are your thoughts about GAWR as a factor?Thank you. Dom
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:49 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominickP53 View Post
Please help me understand what the most important and simplest factors in determining whether my F150 Ecoboost can pull a 1/2 5th Wheel. I'm told to consider the Tow Capacity of Truck minus the GVMR of the FW. And consider the Pin weight with reference to GAWR of Truck. Can you help me determine what is most important to ensure I have enough tow and hauling capacity and more importantly that I'm traveling safely. Humble FW newbie. Thanks.
Here's what the dealer and anybody using "tow capacity" wants you to think - the Toyota Tundra can pull a space shuttle. Remember that advertisement?
You'll notice they didn't put the front wheel of the space shuttle in the bed of the truck because it would absolutely flatten that truck. So, to a lesser degree, does the pin weight of your fifth wheel act on your truck. Tow capacity is only going to tell you (in a roundabout way) how easily your truck can pull something down the road or up a hill. Cargo capacity is going to tell you how much weight your truck can safely carry regardless of how you distribute it. The axle weight capacity is only a single component of an entire system. You can have axles rated to carry 6ooo pounds but what are your tires rated to carry? The wheels? The springs? The frame?
Simply put, your truck will run out of cargo carrying capacity long before it runs out of towing capacity. If you want to be safe, don't exceed your cargo carrying capacity of the truck or the camper.
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:50 AM   #52
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Hook up. Go to a cat scale. You will get all the REAL weights. Gvwr of the trailer has nothing to do with towing as a trailer will way alot less than gvwr. Tow capacity can be thrown out kinda.. Yhe weights you are concerned about are rear axle weight with trailer hooked up.. people, fuel everything in truck. The other weight you are concerned with is the truck's Gvwr.. I bet with the trailer hooked up with no one in yhe truck you'll be over.. Get a smaller trailer or a bigger truck.
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:51 AM   #53
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You simply do not have enough payload on your F-150 for that trailer regardless of the axle ratings. See the post from JRTH that you posted. Sorry for the news, but your truck could "pull" the trailer but not "carry" it.
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Old 04-29-2022, 06:54 AM   #54
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Dominick, it appears that you are 'fishing' for just one member to tell you, or justify your F-150, that you are in the envelope of safety with your setup. Those in the know are NOT about to say this. You are not within the realm of safety I don't care how you balance your figures. You simply cannot get there from here. You have too much RV and too little truck. You can install overload springs, airbags, LT tires, dual exhaust, pin stripes, coon tails and lights in the wheel wells but your truck cannot tote the load.
At some point I believe you've been advised to load up your 'beast' and RV the way you camp, full of people and fuel, and run over the CAT scale. A great idea. Then read the cargo capacity from your door jamb and read the numbers on the scale ticket. THOSE numbers don't lie. Luck to you.
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Old 04-29-2022, 07:02 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DominickP53 View Post
Please help me understand what the most important and simplest factors in determining whether my F150 Ecoboost can pull a 1/2 5th Wheel. I'm told to consider the Tow Capacity of Truck minus the GVMR of the FW. And consider the Pin weight with reference to GAWR of Truck. Can you help me determine what is most important to ensure I have enough tow and hauling capacity and more importantly that I'm traveling safely. Humble FW newbie. Thanks.
No need to go any further, "IF" all you're concerned with is "PULLING" the trailer. Hell, not even a year ago, an F-150 "pulled a train" and about 5 years ago, a TACO pulled the Space Shuttle... The engines/drive train in modern trucks is "capable of PULLING" much more than the rest of the truck can support.....

PULLING IS NOT AN ISSUE !!!!!

If you read your owner's manual, you'll find a statement that ALL of the limiting ratings MUST be followed... Dealerships love to "confuse a buyer" by saying, "Your truck Tow Rating is 12,000 pounds, this trailer only weighs 5500 pounds, so you're good to go. Or, your truck receiver is rated at 1100/10000 pounds, this trailer hitch weight is only 435 pounds, so look at all the reserve capacity you have....

You even "did it" in your post #45:

My math:
RLI unloaded is 9,070
F150 Tow Cap is 10,700
RLI Pin Wt 1623#s
F150 GAWR is 3800#s or Payload of 1820#s.

You're using the "shipping weight from the brochure" of 9070, before filling the propane tanks or installing a battery or any optional equipment included when the trailer was built. (brochure weight is the standard build trailer wtih no propane, no battery and no options)

You say your Tow Cap is 10,700, but that is based on GCWR minus truck weight as hitched to the trailer. It's NEVER a static number and only works when calculated this way: GCWR minus actual truck weight equals tow cap...

The RLI Pin Wt 1632 is the EMPTY trailer with no propane, no battery, no cargo. Do you ever plan to actuall "tow it that way" ???

F150 GAWR is 3800#. This is the only "static limitation" you've listed and is one of 4 ratings you can't exceed. The other's are Payload, truck GVWR, truck GCWR.

Honestly, from your statement, your dealer already KNOWS there's a problem and your truck isn't capable, otherwise why would he suggest "installing helper springs" ???

IMO, for what it's worth, that dealer is pushing you into buying too damn much trailer for an under-rated truck..... Pulling a trailer has NEVER been an issue with any "modern truck". They all develop enough power to PULL way more trailer than the suspension, frame, chassis, receiver can support.

Now, if you're concerned with "TOWING" not "PULLING" a trailer, you'll need more truck than your F150 for that fifth wheel. WAY MORE TRUCK !!!!!

As a footnote, don't feel bad, you're not the first, not even in the first 1000 buyers to be "sold too much trailer by an eager dealer".....
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Old 04-29-2022, 07:15 AM   #56
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Texas Steve, thank you.
The dealer told me they use Gross Axle Weight Ratio rather than Payload. My GAWR is 3800#s. They said this is a grey area? What are your thoughts about GAWR as a factor?Thank you. Dom
This is a "cut and paste" of page 280 from the F150 Owner's Manual: Your dealer told you WRONG information. It's not a "gray area" it's in black and white from Ford.....
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Old 04-29-2022, 07:44 AM   #57
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The bottom line has been stated many time so I won't go into it other than to reiterate; way too much trailer for way too little truck. If you hitch that up and take a trip you will be in the "danger to you and everyone else on the road" category.

Your dealer misled you either by intent, ignorance or both. And, you aren't the first nor will you be the last that has been misled by all the misleading misinformation thrown at prospective RV owners.
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Old 04-29-2022, 07:53 AM   #58
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Hook up. Go to a cat scale. You will get all the REAL weights. Gvwr of the trailer has nothing to do with towing as a trailer will way alot less than gvwr..
If you or the OP use any rv with any regularity I guarantee you WILL be at or very near the GVWR once you went out a few times! Head to the scales ready to camp & you may be surprised at the actual weights. Stuff that at the moment is a "must have" or "that might be a handy dandy doodad" gets loaded up & never gets unloaded & more often than not never gets used either, BTDT!. Which when calculating weight estimates it's best to use the GVWR then you've got the absolute max number the rv should weigh. Calculating the appropriate tongue/pin weight percentages (13% for TTs & 23% for 5th wheels) with the GVWR of the rv will give you the max it should put on the truck.
There's only 1 true answer to the question towing this 5er with a 1/2 truck, yea even if it's an F150, is TOO MUCH RV, NOT NEAR ENOUGH TRUCK!
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Old 04-29-2022, 08:05 AM   #59
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Well the Dom would likely do OK with a new F250 with the “increased GVWR” and the 7.3 Godzilla gas engine. Likely just over 3,000# payload, and necessary power for the weight in the hills.
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Old 04-29-2022, 08:15 AM   #60
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Long story short, if you need an F-250, just get an F-350. Basically the same truck with a better payload, same ride. There. I have done my good deed for the day!
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