Hot Water Heater noise...

Skippy38 · 01-24-2021, 09:04 AM

Ok so there was a loud buzzing sound coming from my anti-siphon valve under the sink. Easy enough repair with a little CPVC and a couple of fittings. Now there is a similar buzzing sound coming from the hot water heater only, no noise when running cold water. I thought there could be a second valve but no dice. There is also a little water collecting on the outside bottom of the water heater visible when I take the cover off. Any ideas? It is a standard Suburban unit. Is the hot water heater trying to tell me it is going bad? Could it just have air in it? Thanks.

**chuckster57** · 01-24-2021, 09:20 AM

There should be an "air gap" in the water heater. If the water is coming from the pressure relief valve, just turn off the water supply. Then open the relief valve BE CAREFUL not to get scalded, then turn on the water pump and ru a hot water faucet for a couple minutes. Close the relief valve, turn the water supply back on and run the hot faucet until the air is gone and a solid stream of water again.

If it continues to drip then you can replace the relief valve just have to know which size threads, and they are available at most big box hardware stores.

Skippy38 · 01-24-2021, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckster57

There should be an "air gap" in the water heater. If the water is coming from the pressure relief valve, just turn off the water supply. Then open the relief valve BE CAREFUL not to get scalded, then turn on the water pump and ru a hot water faucet for a couple minutes. Close the relief valve, turn the water supply back on and run the hot faucet until the air is gone and a solid stream of water again.

If it continues to drip then you can replace the relief valve just have to know which size threads, and they are available at most big box hardware stores.

Thanks. The water does not appear to be coming from the pressure relief valve. There has been a wide range of temperatures here lately from 30's to 80's, could it be condensation buildup? The water does not concern me as much as the sound coming from the water heater when running the hot water...

**chuckster57** · 01-24-2021, 09:46 AM

That may be the case. There is a "one way" valve in the water heater outlet, maybe thats "singing" to you.

**flybouy** · 01-24-2021, 10:04 AM

Is the water heater running on gas, electric or both? What's the water output temperature like? Is it normal or overly hot? There shouldn't be any condensation in the water heater compartment. There are two things that typically leak/drip, the pressure relief valve or the anode rod at the bottom. That pressure relief valve could have some debris under the seal causing to "siong" or chatter. Follow Chucks suggestions on letting it cool down and operating it a few times. It may work out debris and correct your problem at no cost.

Skippy38 · 01-24-2021, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flybouy

Is the water heater running on gas, electric or both? What's the water output temperature like? Is it normal or overly hot? There shouldn't be any condensation in the water heater compartment. There are two things that typically leak/drip, the pressure relief valve or the anode rod at the bottom. That pressure relief valve could have some debris under the seal causing to "siong" or chatter. Follow Chucks suggestions on letting it cool down and operating it a few times. It may work out debris and correct your problem at no cost.

Thanks. I am stationary and running it on electric only. The water temp is normally like the surface of the sun so that has not changed lol. I have been "cycling" the heater turning it off at night then on again in the morning for showers/dishes/etc. I will try Chucks method and see what happens...

**flybouy** · 01-24-2021, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy38

Thanks. I am stationary and running it on electric only. The water temp is normally like the surface of the sun so that has not changed lol. I have been "cycling" the heater turning it off at night then on again in the morning for showers/dishes/etc. I will try Chucks method and see what happens...

The temp and fuel question was to rule out an electric heating element overheating and boiling the water. I know asking a temperature and a "buzzing" are all subjective but if you have steam coming out of the hot faucet I'd take it's temperature. Hopefully opening and closing that pop off valve will solve the propblem.

Skippy38 · 01-24-2021, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flybouy

The temp and fuel question was to rule out an electric heating element overheating and boiling the water. I know asking a temperature and a "buzzing" are all subjective but if you have steam coming out of the hot faucet I'd take it's temperature. Hopefully opening and closing that pop off valve will solve the propblem.

The hot water is its usual hot temp but not overly so and no steam. It must be an air issue, I am trying Chucks suggestion and will let you know...

Skippy38 · 01-25-2021, 05:16 AM

Ok so I let the water heater cool down completely and let it sit cold overnight and the water on the exterior has returned and the pressure relief valve is dry as a bone. The only other place to leak is from the annode rod/drain hole so I will be pulling this today and resealing with teflon tape which should stop the leak. However the sound is still there when I use the hot water, and it resonates in the pipe all the way up to the bathroom faucet. Any ideas what the sound could be? It is coming from the hot water heater...

**flybouy** · 01-25-2021, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy38

Ok so I let the water heater cool down completely and let it sit cold overnight and the water on the exterior has returned and the pressure relief valve is dry as a bone. The only other place to leak is from the annode rod/drain hole so I will be pulling this today and resealing with teflon tape which should stop the leak. However the sound is still there when I use the hot water, and it resonates in the pipe all the way up to the bathroom faucet. Any ideas what the sound could be? It is coming from the hot water heater...

Are you purging all the air out of the water heater? That would require opening the relief valve until water flows out. If you are then that's an issue. The water heater should have a pocket of air at the top of the tank for expansion. When you say "when I use the hot water" do ,mean while the water is flowing?A vibrating pipe will resonate along any thing that it's attached to or touching. My next recommendation would be removing and replacing the check valve on the water heater.

Sound or noise is a descriptive term and what you describe as a load bang someone else would call a small thud. Any way you could video that and post it somewhere that a link would be available?

**chuckster57** · 01-25-2021, 06:13 AM

Teflon tape works, I prefer white thread compound but it’s a personal choice. When you remove the anode, enough water will drain to establish the air gap. Make sure you run a faucet to fill the tank, and let us know if it sings while the water is cold.

**JRTJH** · 01-25-2021, 09:50 AM

There are a few points that stand out for me.

1. "The water has always been extremely hot".

It could be that the high temperature limit switch has always been "set too high/not sensing a too hot condition". So, a "faulty system that's always been faulty" is now being considered "normal"...

2. The pressure relief valve is leaking but not when you left the water heater off overnight...

It could be that there is too much pressure inside the water heater and the pressure relief valve is working EXACTLY like it's supposed to work, and the electric side of the system is "just too darn hot".

3. There's often/always water in the bottom of the water heater outside compartment, under the anode.

It could be that the anode is leaking, it could be that the pressure relief valve is leaking or it could be that there's another problem (or no problem at all) with function of the water heater.... BUT... There is a problem with standing water on any metal surface. One scratch in the paint or one crevice that's unprotected "way back in a corner" and corrosion will set up. Eventually, there's going to be enough corrosion to eat through the metal. When that happens, maybe in 10 years, maybe in 2 years, the water will "leak out of that part of the water heater" and will start dripping on the OSB flooring under the water heater. That's going to be a "ticking time bomb" for major trailer damage. Any "standing water in the water heater compartment" deserves immediate attention to determine if it's an intermittent/no problem issue or if it's a 24/7 issue that's going to lead to significant damage "in the future"....

If, as you say, the water heater pressure relief valve didn't leak with the electric side turned off (and does leak with the electric side turned on) then I'd go one step further and leave the electric element off, heat the water with gas for a day or two and see if that part of the system "works without leaking" or "leaks just like the electric side".

jasin1 · 01-25-2021, 12:41 PM

I would also check the temperature of the water. You could have a malfunction in the thermostat for the water heater allowing it to come close to a boil. The water heaters are relatively small and wouldn’t take much to overheat..remember it’s t&p valve ..temperature and pressure relief valve. Could be overheating and the sound is the t&p valve releasing steam

Are your water main valves fully open? When a valve isnt fully open it can cause a “sound”. And water heaters in homes are known to condensate when they are first started up because the metal around the flue is hot and you add cold water it can sweat in the bottom and look like a leak. After it warms up it goes away

Skippy38 · 01-25-2021, 01:28 PM

Attached is a pic of where the water is accumulating to give some reference. It does not appear to be leaking from the anode rod hole because when I remove the water and dry it out there is no water leaking from the anode rod hole. If it was leaking I think that I would see it leaking but it is not. I am going to operate it on gas for a couple of days and see if that changes anything. Thanks for all of the help with this, it is still a mystery at this point...

Skippy38 · 01-25-2021, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasin1

I would also check the temperature of the water. You could have a malfunction in the thermostat for the water heater allowing it to come close to a boil. The water heaters are relatively small and wouldn’t take much to overheat..remember it’s t&p valve ..temperature and pressure relief valve. Could be overheating and the sound is the t&p valve releasing steam

Are your water main valves fully open? When a valve isnt fully open it can cause a “sound”. And water heaters in homes are known to condensate when they are first started up because the metal around the flue is hot and you add cold water it can sweat in the bottom and look like a leak. After it warms up it goes away

Yes the valves are open and have not been touched. We have been stationary for 3 months and the noise just started in the last few days....

**JRTJH** · 01-25-2021, 01:37 PM

After a day or two of gas operation, let us know how it's going. If there's no sound and no moisture pooling, it's likely the electric side temperature regulation... If it does the same thing on gas, I'd look toward the pressure relief valve... The "humming/vibration": Now that's another issue that may/may not be caused by the cause of the water pooling. They "might be related" and again, they "might not be related, but just be happening at the same time"

Skippy38 · 01-26-2021, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

After a day or two of gas operation, let us know how it's going. If there's no sound and no moisture pooling, it's likely the electric side temperature regulation... If it does the same thing on gas, I'd look toward the pressure relief valve... The "humming/vibration": Now that's another issue that may/may not be caused by the cause of the water pooling. They "might be related" and again, they "might not be related, but just be happening at the same time"

Ok I let the water cool down with the heater off overnight. No water pooling at all. Turned the heater on GAS and let it heat up. BINGO. Water returned, this time I could see that it is coming from the pressure relief valve. So I have narrowed my search down to either a defective relief valve or loss of the "air pocket" at the top of the tank which is letting water rise and flow out of the pressure relief valve or both. Since the water is not continuously dripping from the pressure valve I suspect that the pressure valve is doing its job and my problem is loss of the "air pocket" at the top of the tank. I suspect that the "air pocket" loss is also causing the noise I hear when the hot water is turned on. Since I need to check my anode rod anyway, I am going to drain the heater, inspect the rod and reinstall. This should restore my "air pocket", prevent the water pooling and eliminate the water noise. At least thats what I think will happen lol. I will let you know......

**JRTJH** · 01-26-2021, 06:50 AM

Matt,

I agree, when you drain the water heater via the anode rod fitting, you'll probably find some white scale and possibly some "cottage cheese looking scale" that will flow out of the water heater. That is normal, depending on the quality and chemistry of the water you're using.

When you're draining the water heater, open the pressure relief valve tab to hasten the draining. That will also help flush out the "goop".

Once you've got the anode rod reinstalled, snap closed the pressure relief tab. I'd do it 3 or 4 times, just to make sure you've cleared any "grit" from the seals on the valve. Once you snap it closed, do not "bleed any air by opening the valve while filling the water heater. That "compressed air" as the water heater fills is what forms the air pocket in the water heater. Over time, usually 3 or 4 months, the air gap will be consumed by "normal use of the water heater" and will need to be re-established. There is a procedure outlined in the owner's manual to do that.

If, when you drain, clean and refill the water heater, you still have leakage, but only when the water is hot and there is no hot water use to lower the pressure (shower, using hot water at the sink, etc) then I'd suspect a faulty, leaking pressure relief valve. It's easy to replace, pull the old one, go to Lowe's or Home Depot, size up a new one. Don't forget the teflon tape on reinstallation.

Keep us posted as you go, trust me when I say that many other owners either have the same issue, are looking for answers to the same issue or will, in a few days, realize they've had the same issue and didn't know it.....

Skippy38 · 01-26-2021, 01:40 PM

Ok so I pulled the anode rod and inspected it (perfect condition) and reinstalled with teflon tape on the threads. In draining the heater and refilling I appear to have reestablished the proper "air gap" at the top of the heater. Water is no longer leaking from the overflow and operation is normal. However, I still have the sound coming from the output valve on the hot water heater although not as bad now. Could it possibly be air still in the system? If bothers me that it is making a sound. I will try to get a short video with sound to post.

**JRTJH** · 01-26-2021, 02:54 PM

On the rear of the water heater, at the "hot water outlet" (top PEX tube) there is a brass (old style) or less durable plastic (new style) "one way valve" that often times gets calcium on it and can chatter as hot water flows through it. That might be your problem, you can test it by having your DW turn on the hot water in the kitchen or bath while you're "crawled in the dungeon behind the water heater". Place a finger on the plastic valve, you'll feel it chattering if it's bad.

It's marked in this photo so you can see where to put your finger... While you're back there, make sure the winterization bypass valve is fully open.

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