Truck Advice for Novice

[JDDilly]

I agree with Javi, if your mirrors fit, so will the fenders. I just got a DRW last winter because I was at or above the limits of the SRW I had. The difference is night and day, I will never go back to a SRW. I even use the DRW as my daily driver.

[sourdough]

OP the link you posted for the FR trailer shows a gvw of about 14k. If you are going to live in it.....it will grow to 14k. You are at the "crap" moment as I call it.

That trailer will work on a srw gas 1 ton with the right payload but it will struggle due to engine vs weight. A diesel 1 ton will pull it admirably but your payload is diminished enough to put you in that position where I won't do it...I like some weight cushion. But then....

You are going to live in it. If and WHEN you find you want something a little larger to live in permanently....you can't do it. I can't; I refuse to buy a drw or diesel so I am literally stuck with what I can buy that my truck can handle...can't go any bigger. I really wanted a larger trailer but nada.

IMO, the position you are in, trailer you are looking at, future changes etc. I would go with the diesel drw. If you can manage the drw (room/garage) I would go for it in a minute and then be set for anything that might change after you start exercising your new found past time.

[travelin texans]

Had duallies as daily driver for 15 years & personally never scratched a rear fender! Now I had a couple get dented by folks driving with their heads up ..........well you know what I mean.

[noezoom]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

You traveling or will it be in a fixed site?

Planning to spend most of our time at a campsite in SoCal and travel part of the time. We want to do some long trips, so the truck has to be able to handle it.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by noezoom

Thanks for all the quick feedback!

I have been assuming diesel because I thought it would have more towing capacity. I didn't expect it to actually have less in some cases.

Based on your responses, it seems like I'll be safe with an F350 diesel, just making sure to double check the sticker and know ahead of time what my lower threshold is. Then, based on the weight of the 5th wheel, I will have to take a written exam at the DMV. I just hope I don't have to get a realID to add that endorsement.

The 5th wheel we have narrowed our search to is here.

As far as cargo weight, I only included 50 lbs as our cargo because I figured we would typically only keep what we need for travel in the truck. The rest would be in the 5th wheel. I just threw a number out off the top of my head. Maybe I should allow for more than that?

And for the weight of my family, yeah, we're not very big. Three of us including a 5yo doesn't add up to much. I'm guessing we're going to look a little odd in a huge truck, which will probably make me laugh a lot.

Thanks all!

If you are going to be full timing the 5er is likely going to be near full GVWR. Unless you can get a F350 with 4,200#+ of payload, time to start thinking of DRW. Our 2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW has a payload of 5,411#.

The only one ton SRW with enough payload prior to 2021 id Ram with a GVWR of 12,300#. Ford and GM max GVWR before 2021 was 11,500#, not enough with your weights.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by JDDilly

I agree with Javi, if your mirrors fit, so will the fenders. I just got a DRW last winter because I was at or above the limits of the SRW I had. The difference is night and day, I will never go back to a SRW. I even use the DRW as my daily driver.

The problem with the "if the mirrors fit so will the fenders" is those pesky yellow concrete covered island bumpers that are 40" tall and found at every bank window, every gas/diesel island, many parking lot "end rows" and all toll booths on the highways.... The mirrors "easily pass right over them" but those darn plastic fenders on the rear, well, they're "in the direct line of fire"....

Going into a garage, you're right, "if the mirrors fit so will the fenders" not always true in "the real world".....

[Vinnie]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Notice some of our newer members have now attained a weight guru status because they paid dearly for it.

LOL I have you all to thank for that! Like y'all always say, the math is easy. Since my whole ordeal, I've also spent too much time poring over the Ford offerings, so I apologize for jumping in line over the true WP gurus, but I wanted to share the fruits of my extensive research (and who doesn't like a series of confusing graphs?)

[Javi]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The problem with the "if the mirrors fit so will the fenders" is those pesky yellow concrete covered island bumpers that are 40" tall and found at every bank window, every gas/diesel island, many parking lot "end rows" and all toll booths on the highways.... The mirrors "easily pass right over them" but those darn plastic fenders on the rear, well, they're "in the direct line of fire"....

Going into a garage, you're right, "if the mirrors fit so will the fenders" not always true in "the real world".....

Yeah... I guess you have to have a modicum of depth perception for it to work.

But I can easily say that I've never hit a gas/diesel island bumper or bank lane or toll booth in few hundred thousand miles in a dually..

I have however, hit an overpass with an 18 wheeler trailer.. We were 13' 6" and the sign said 13' 8".... it lied

Oh yeah.. I backed into a sign pole once in a 16 passenger van... creased the back door in about 6" ... but that was my temper's fault...

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The problem with the "if the mirrors fit so will the fenders" is those pesky yellow concrete covered island bumpers that are 40" tall and found at every bank window, every gas/diesel island, many parking lot "end rows" and all toll booths on the highways.... The mirrors "easily pass right over them" but those darn plastic fenders on the rear, well, they're "in the direct line of fire"....

Going into a garage, you're right, "if the mirrors fit so will the fenders" not always true in "the real world".....

If cutting the corner that tight you'll likely hit the rear fender on a crew cab long bed truck also.
Even the DW drove through drive thrus, parked/drove anywhere she wanted & never dented/scratched a fender.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Javi

Yeah... I guess you have to have a modicum of depth perception for it to work.

But I can easily say that I've never hit a gas/diesel island bumper or bank lane or toll booth in few hundred thousand miles in a dually..

I have however, hit an overpass with an 18 wheeler trailer.. We were 13' 6" and the sign said 13' 8".... it lied

Oh yeah.. I backed into a sign pole once in a 16 passenger van... creased the back door in about 6" ... but that was my temper's fault...

Originally Posted by travelin texans

If cutting the corner that tight you'll likely hit the rear fender on a crew cab long bed truck also.
Even the DW drove through drive thrus, parked/drove anywhere she wanted & never dented/scratched a fender.

I'm not (wasn't) suggesting that it's a "gonna happen eventually" event. I was simply suggesting that it's not always "if the mirrors fit so will the hips"... I've been fortunate (so far) with every dually I've driven and with every trailer I've towed. I can't begin to count the number of fifth wheels and travel/cargo trailers that I've seen with a scraped side. Heck, cruise most campgrounds and look at tires on the trailers. I'd guess about 50% of them will have "scuff marks" on the trailer tire sidewalls.... They didn't get there from people with "perfect depth perception, they got there from people who "let their guard down" (just for that split second) and suddenly realize there's a curb or a gutter "right where their trailer tires are tracking and no time to stop before "BLAM"..... Same with a dually, or yup, even with a LWB truck (heck, even with a short wheel base Escape if you cut too short...

Simply put, mirror clearance is no guarantee the fenders will make it without an "oopsie" or a "*(%^)S" if your temper is like mine.....

DW still marvels at how many trucks have tailgates that got crushed from carrying a heavy pipe that dropped on it... She hasn't yet figured out that when those "yellow posts are in the way and the tailgate is down, you don't need a heavy pipe dropped on the tailgate to get that "signature dent"....

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The problem with the "if the mirrors fit so will the fenders" is those pesky yellow concrete covered island bumpers that are 40" tall and found at every bank window, every gas/diesel island, many parking lot "end rows" and all toll booths on the highways.... The mirrors "easily pass right over them" but those darn plastic fenders on the rear, well, they're "in the direct line of fire"....

Going into a garage, you're right, "if the mirrors fit so will the fenders" not always true in "the real world".....

One does need to be aware, I have used a very tight drive through at a credit union in Newport, OR., two tight 90’s sometimes needed to back up a foot or two, but never hit anything.

[scottz]

The trailer you are looking at is very similar to mine. To give you an idea, my pin weight is 3920, weight on my trailer axles is 11850; add the two and the gross weight I'm towing is 15770.

I had a great SRW F350 diesel. Truck was a little over GVWR, but did not bother me much....until I checked the weight on each rear tire. They were well over max. So I ended up with a DRW F450, but a DRW F350 would have been fine. Your call.

[noezoom]

Originally Posted by scottz

The trailer you are looking at is very similar to mine. To give you an idea, my pin weight is 3920, weight on my trailer axles is 11850; add the two and the gross weight I'm towing is 15770.

I had a great SRW F350 diesel. Truck was a little over GVWR, but did not bother me much....until I checked the weight on each rear tire. They were well over max. So I ended up with a DRW F450, but a DRW F350 would have been fine. Your call.

Very nice. Thank you!

[wiredgeorge]

Originally Posted by scottz

The trailer you are looking at is very similar to mine. To give you an idea, my pin weight is 3920, weight on my trailer axles is 11850; add the two and the gross weight I'm towing is 15770.

I had a great SRW F350 diesel. Truck was a little over GVWR, but did not bother me much....until I checked the weight on each rear tire. They were well over max. So I ended up with a DRW F450, but a DRW F350 would have been fine. Your call.

If memory serves, an F350 DRW has more payload capacity than an F450. True?

[scottz]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

If memory serves, an F350 DRW has more payload capacity than an F450. True?

These are the figures I noted when I was shopping in 2019. I did not look at the actual weight of each truck so I can't say what the payload is; but I think it's splitting hairs as long as you compare diesel to diesel.

I chose the F450 because they had one I liked, the turning radius, and the tires. The price difference was small. I could have been just as happy with a F350 if it went that way. If I had gone with the F350, it would have been a super cab; not an option with the F450. Either of the DRW trucks has a surplus of capacity for me.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

If memory serves, an F350 DRW has more payload capacity than an F450. True?

Yes, generally speaking they are both listed as 14,000 GVWR and the F450 has a higher curb weight. Really not an issue in most cases .

[noezoom]

Ok, so I feel like my thinking is flawed somewhere because now I have it in my head that a similarly weighted travel trailer would need less truck to haul. And the only reason I think that is because the tongue weight is only 10% of the trailer weight, where you use up to 25% of the fifth wheel weight to get the hitch weight.

Yet, I think that the specs all say that you can haul more fifth wheel weight than travel trailer weight with the same truck.

Am I crazy? Where is my logic flawed?

[Javi]

Originally Posted by noezoom

Ok, so I feel like my thinking is flawed somewhere because now I have it in my head that a similarly weighted travel trailer would need less truck to haul. And the only reason I think that is because the tongue weight is only 10% of the trailer weight, where you use up to 25% of the fifth wheel weight to get the hitch weight.

Yet, I think that the specs all say that you can haul more fifth wheel weight than travel trailer weight with the same truck.

Am I crazy? Where is my logic flawed?

10% is generally the minimum for a bumper pull and often tongue weight approaches 15%. But yes, as far as truck payload vs trailer weight, broadly speaking; about payload only a bumper pull trailer puts less weight on the truck.

That doesn't mean that a bumper pull can be bigger on the same truck because several other factors including sway control come into play.

[Badbart56]

The DRW, SRW argument should be for naught. Stop and think about it. If you are worried about hitting those rear dually fenders at the fuel pumps, what kind of destruction are you going to do to your fifth wheel trailer?! Unless all you've ever driven is a Mini Cooper you should be able to keep your truck off the walls, regardless of whether it's a SRW or DRW.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Badbart56

The DRW, SRW argument should be for naught. Stop and think about it. If you are worried about hitting those rear dually fenders at the fuel pumps, what kind of destruction are you going to do to your fifth wheel trailer?! Unless all you've ever driven is a Mini Cooper you should be able to keep your truck off the walls, regardless of whether it's a SRW or DRW.

While towing, yes, most people are very aware of what's behind them. They are usually looking up to check clearance while going under an awning at a gas station, they're using their mirrors to check how the trailer "grows closer to the yellow concrete pole and/or how close their trailer tires are to a curb. In short, most people, while towing, pay attention to their surroundings. The issue, for many (certainly not anyone on this forum) is when they're solo, and DW is driving or when they "lose sight of the size of their truck" and decide to run by the bank and get "beer money for the weekend".... That momentary lapse of "eyes on the horizon not on the instrument panel" has "pinched more dually drivers than you'd imagine".... Now, as for anyone on this forum ever having that kind of issue..... Hmmmmm