Water pump leaking; warranty or self fix?

[flash25296]

Is there a way to get a plumbing diagram for a specific trailer? Will Keystone provide that?

[flybouy]

Keystone will not provide plumbing diagrams. They consider that proprietary info.

[flash25296]

Originally Posted by bsmith0404

That’s how they mount them. A lot of people remount them to another board with a foam insulator to reduce the noise. Personally, I’d fix it myself, but I don’t take mine to the dealer for anything. At least this way I know it’s fixed right

Anyone have an example of foam used? Is this like sound deadening foam like used in audio installations?

[MarkEHansen]

In my experience, most of the noise comes from the water lines (the pex) vibrating against the floor/walls. This can be worse when there is air in any of the water lines.

When I set up camp, I make sure to purge all the water lines, including the outdoor shower and toilet.

If you purge and there is still too much noise, see if you can insulate the pex lines from the floor/walls with some foam or similar.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by flash25296

Anyone have an example of foam used? Is this like sound deadening foam like used in audio installations?

If your talking about a product like Dynamat then no. The self adhesive stuff like that id designed to stop the metal from vibrating and rattling. Any dense foam will work but as others have stated it's usually the waterlines vibrating against the wood floor & walls that make the most noise. They sell "sound reducing " water lines. I think the best thing is to add an accumulator tank and route the water line away from objects that it can vibrate on.

[IggyD]

Like it's been said, getting technical info from Keystone has been hard. I've been able to get 3D models of things from manufactures directly (Like the pump) but keystone is locked down like the pentagon.

I was just going to ask if anyone has added an accumulator tank? I was thinking t might be a good idea while I'm in there fixing things.

[IggyD]

Here's what I have come up with adding an accumulator as well.

[rlh1957]

That’s the way many pumps are mounted.
All those fittings are subject to leak over time due to vibration and loosening.

It’s not worth your time and hassle to put it in for warranty work. Plus they don’t take responsibility or guarantee any of your personal contents. (You gonna unload the whole camper just for small work?)

Get a new pump of your choice, put down vibration isolation rubber, cement or screw it down, then screw pump down. If you’ve had much pump noise & vibration you can put flexible hoses on the In and Out sides both snd put a loop to absorb more vibration. They sell vibration hose kits just for this.
I used small cut sections of pool noodles or hvac pipe insulation everywhere a hose or fitting touches something or another hose.

I kept my original (working) pump as a spare… water pumps only quit when you are out!
I’ve even use my spare pump as a water transfer pump to pump water ftom 50 gallon bladder bag into 5th Wheel 60gal FW tank.

I choose to do the work myself. If I contact the manf of the device or appliance and they give me warranty consideration or discount that is fine. Otherwise I still pay for it and do the work myself.
With this forum and You Tube videos repairs are very doable.

[IggyD]

Originally Posted by rlh1957

That’s the way many pumps are mounted.
All those fittings are subject to leak over time due to vibration and loosening.

It’s not worth your time and hassle to put it in for warranty work. Plus they don’t take responsibility or guarantee any of your personal contents. (You gonna unload the whole camper just for small work?)

Get a new pump of your choice, put down vibration isolation rubber, cement or screw it down, then screw pump down. If you’ve had much pump noise & vibration you can put flexible hoses on the In and Out sides both snd put a loop to absorb more vibration. They sell vibration hose kits just for this.
I used small cut sections of pool noodles or hvac pipe insulation everywhere a hose or fitting touches something or another hose.

I kept my original (working) pump as a spare… water pumps only quit when you are out!
I’ve even use my spare pump as a water transfer pump to pump water ftom 50 gallon bladder bag into 5th Wheel 60gal FW tank.

I choose to do the work myself. If I contact the manf of the device or appliance and they give me warranty consideration or discount that is fine. Otherwise I still pay for it and do the work myself.
With this forum and You Tube videos repairs are very doable.

Thanks for the tips! I'm only doing the warranty inspection on the flooring in case there is any rotting. The pump I'm going to fix my self, and adding the accumulator tank as well.

I don't mind emptying the trailer out completely. It probably takes me 30 min at most. This is only the second time it's gone in so it's no big deal in that regard. we are used to traveling in a much tinier home so we don't need much.

[Life-in-Him]

Originally Posted by MarkEHansen

RVs are not Cars. That's the unfortunate reality. If you expect the same quality from an RV that you get with a new car, you are going to be disappointed.

Should it be like this? No.

Why is it like this? Because people still purchase the RV the way they are being produced.

It took awhile & still falls short for cars to have a higher quality when built.
I bought a factory new 1970 Chevy pickup. Seems every bolt rivet except 3 on the driver's side suffered from lunch break/end of shift itis.
Including motor mounts, frame cross members etc. Dealer said you own it you take care of it.
Had similar problems with a 1993 BMW. I had to hand grind the camshaft & have it rehardened.
That doesn't make today's RV's acceptable, but it does show junk can & will be mass-produced$$$

We do need to come down on every manufacturer, all the way up & down the "food" chain or nothing will change.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Life-in-Him

It took awhile & still falls short for cars to have a higher quality when built.
I bought a factory new 1970 Chevy pickup. Seems every bolt rivet except 3 on the driver's side suffered from lunch break/end of shift itis.
Including motor mounts, frame cross members etc. Dealer said you own it you take care of it.
Had similar problems with a 1993 BMW. I had to hand grind the camshaft & have it rehardened.
That doesn't make today's RV's acceptable, but it does show junk can & will be mass-produced$$$

We do need to come down on every manufacturer, all the way up & down the "food" chain or nothing will change.

I guess we could all "come down" on every manufacturer, all the way up and down the food chain. I suppose one would then not buy anything? Food, cars, RVs, utilities etc.? Not realistic.

RVs have issues guaranteed. Cars and trucks the same to a much lesser degree. IMO a truck/car is an absolute necessity (gas/diesel). RVs? Toys. Just like boats and every other non essential "thing". Those "things" don't have the same quality and it's understood. I can deal with, and expect, non perfect things in an RV. If folks insisted that RVs, with their complexities and the multiple facets they try to cover for buyers, were in the same realm as cars and trucks? Hello 3-400k RVs, and knowledgeable folks, along with those that just wish for some "fun" trips understand that.

[Life-in-Him]

Yup, our "toy" has it's how's & why's. But it's our full time home after being made homeless by selling business & house.
@ 79 options decrease & our choices are live with it, raise a ruckus, find another life etc...
A water pump leak has major potential problems & groups like this provide solutions or discovery ideas,.
The latter enable us simple folk to learn & look @ our rigs for possibilities, maybe even catching pre-failure conditions.
I guess we just mope along & "hope things get better on their own"

[IggyD]

The way I see it is they took my money and there's guarantees and warranties in place. I'm perfectly capable of fixing this myself, even maybe make a better mount that's cost prohibitive in an assembly line. The risk here is rot in the floor which I do not want to fix myself, especially after paying $30K. I don't think it's unreasonable that I don't want major long term damage from a pump leaking after a year (It may have been leaking sooner, but I just caught it).

If it was a $30 part or thing I bought it would not be worth my time, but having dealt with warranty issues in the past, if there isn't documentation that it was brought up early, I won't have a leg to stand on if/when the problem gets worse.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by IggyD

The way I see it is they took my money and there's guarantees and warranties in place. I'm perfectly capable of fixing this myself, even maybe make a better mount that's cost prohibitive in an assembly line. The risk here is rot in the floor which I do not want to fix myself, especially after paying $30K. I don't think it's unreasonable that I don't want major long term damage from a pump leaking after a year (It may have been leaking sooner, but I just caught it).

If it was a $30 part or thing I bought it would not be worth my time, but having dealt with warranty issues in the past, if there isn't documentation that it was brought up early, I won't have a leg to stand on if/when the problem gets worse.

Well, looking at your consideration "from the other side"... The warranty does not include paying the dealer "to check to see if there's a problem"... I mention this because, if you don't "have water damage to the floor", Keystone won't pay the dealer to spend manhours "just to see if it might be a problem"... The "warranty" is there "to repair/replace problems" not to verify that nothing's wrong....

Take your truck to Ford or Chevy and tell them that you think it might have rust inside the door and you want them to disassemble the door to see if anything's rusty... They'll refuse to take your truck apart to see if there's a problem. Keystone "probably" won't pay the dealer to pull the vinyl flooring, to see if there's water stains on the top luan sheeting and they won't pay the dealer to pull the coroplast from the trailer belly to see if the bottom luan is wet..... It's hard enough to get them to "fully fund an existing repair need to a known damaged component"... Asking for a "cursory inspection to confirm there's no issue" is likely to be "absolutely denied for payment"...

So, depending on how you "phrase the request to verify that your trailer doesn't have water damage", you may find that you've got a "HORRENDOUS" bill to pay before they let you drag it off the lot... Keystone's warranty doesn't include "verification that nothing's wrong with a part in warranty".....

[IggyD]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Well, looking at your consideration "from the other side"... The warranty does not include paying the dealer "to check to see if there's a problem"... I mention this because, if you don't "have water damage to the floor", Keystone won't pay the dealer to spend manhours "just to see if it might be a problem"... The "warranty" is there "to repair/replace problems" not to verify that nothing's wrong....

Take your truck to Ford or Chevy and tell them that you think it might have rust inside the door and you want them to disassemble the door to see if anything's rusty... They'll refuse to take your truck apart to see if there's a problem. Keystone "probably" won't pay the dealer to pull the vinyl flooring, to see if there's water stains on the top luan sheeting and they won't pay the dealer to pull the coroplast from the trailer belly to see if the bottom luan is wet..... It's hard enough to get them to "fully fund an existing repair need to a known damaged component"... Asking for a "cursory inspection to confirm there's no issue" is likely to be "absolutely denied for payment"...

So, depending on how you "phrase the request to verify that your trailer doesn't have water damage", you may find that you've got a "HORRENDOUS" bill to pay before they let you drag it off the lot... Keystone's warranty doesn't include "verification that nothing's wrong with a part in warranty".....

This I completely understand and it's reasonable. They quoted me $129.99 for the inspection. To me it's cheap insurance, I don't know how to tell if my floor is good or not. If they find that the floor is ok and nothing is damaged, I'll seal the holes and mount the pump in a way that doesn't pierce the floor vinyl. There will be a record of the inspection and problem and all is good. If there is something wrong, then it can be fixed under warranty before it gets worse. Either way it's a win scenario in my view.

Nothing is free I completely understand that.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by IggyD

This I completely understand and it's reasonable. They quoted me $129.99 for the inspection. To me it's cheap insurance, I don't know how to tell if my floor is good or not. If they find that the floor is ok and nothing is damaged, I'll seal the holes and mount the pump in a way that doesn't pierce the floor vinyl. There will be a record of the inspection and problem and all is good. If there is something wrong, then it can be fixed under warranty before it gets worse. Either way it's a win scenario in my view.

Nothing is free I completely understand that.

It could be a "double edged sword" in that if you pay for the inspection, the dealer looks at a 3' area around the location you're concerned with and documents that there is "no water damage to the floor" and then in 3 or 6 months from that date, there's water damage causing a floor issue 6" past that 3' area, Keystone could potentially say that the dealer confirmed it didn't happen during the warranty period and the inspection is proof there was no problem during the warranty period....

Do what you want, but keep in mind that "confirming there's no problem" would work against you if there's a "request for a good will gesture to repair the floor" after the warranty expires.....

I know, I know, always the pessimist, but after reading all the denial reasons that have been posted on this and other forums for the last 15 years, one thing I've come to realize is that if it's documented, it can be used to benefit both parties, so just keep that in mind when spending money to "confirm there's no problem"...

[RMC-318BR]

As long as it’s dried out and isn’t a huge area it will be fine. Wood rot dosent spread like metal rust. In order for it to spread it would need to keep leaking. No leak no spread.

[Chief Popi]

FWIW, my .02. Replace the factory water pump and upgrade the fittings to your liking. My factory water pump failed due to poor winterization (residual water in the city water check-valve) after two years and always made a ton of noise when in operation. The sad thing is, these trailers, though pretty, are just not well engineered for use, they are built to move off the dealer lot. I'd not spend a lot of time polishing a turd, just stuff a towel in there and get camping. If the floor rots, sell it or fix it yourself if you can't live with it. Safe Travels!

[IggyD]

Originally Posted by Chief Popi

FWIW, my .02. Replace the factory water pump and upgrade the fittings to your liking. My factory water pump failed due to poor winterization (residual water in the city water check-valve) after two years and always made a ton of noise when in operation. The sad thing is, these trailers, though pretty, are just not well engineered for use, they are built to move off the dealer lot. I'd not spend a lot of time polishing a turd, just stuff a towel in there and get camping. If the floor rots, sell it or fix it yourself if you can't live with it. Safe Travels!

This is basically where I'm headed. I think I have it all fixed, but we'll see how it goes long term. I know have an issue where my black tank rinse won't work and I think it's a bad check valve, that's not easy to get to.

[flash25296]

Originally Posted by IggyD

This is basically where I'm headed. I think I have it all fixed, but we'll see how it goes long term. I know have an issue where my black tank rinse won't work and I think it's a bad check valve, that's not easy to get to.

IggyD can you send me a picture of your water control station? does it seem like the stickers on the winterize and hot water bypass are wrong for the position of the valves?