Roof leaks/issues with new travel trailer

[brandysgraphix]

About 40 days ago, I purchased the Outback 260UML from Camping World in Tulsa, OK location and I couldn't be more disappointed. First, they set up our hitch completely wrong - the ball on the truck was sitting about 6" higher than the trailer. They also scratched our brand new GMC Sierra truck causing a paint chip in the tailgate. Then, while touring the camper, the tech had issues with getting the stabilizers down. He then reached behind the panel and they started working. When I asked him what he did in case that happens in the future, he stated that there was a reset button. As it turns out, we DID have issues the first time we used the camper and there is NO reset button - there are loose/exposed wires causing a short. The tech completely lied to us. There is also absolutely NO way that anyone inspected this camper upon arrival including a wrinkled roof with air pockets and rivets on their side (not drilled into anything) that were sealed over, along with an industrial staple that is coming through the sealer that is causing a water leak into our camper. The awning is also installed incorrectly causing the awning to rub against the slide that will cause it to puncture through. There is a sealing strip missing on the shower, a window in the bedroom that won't stay open, the understorage of the bed that has to be forced (another lie from the tech stating that was "normal", but is actually caused by a bowed board that was installed), a cabinet latch in the kitchen that doesn't work, a trim piece above the couch that fell off on our second trip, the handles on the tank flush system that fell off on our third trip (also techs did not close the valves when they sold it to us, so my husband got sprayed with black tank water after our first trip). Camping World is being dismissive of the issues stating that all campers have them and they don't want me "to think this is a lemon." A leaking roof causing water inside the walls, exposed/loose wiring, an awning that can't be fixed without jeopardizing the structural integrity of the camper.... those things alone should be screaming LEMON! We put our trust in Keystone to build a quality unit, and we trusted Camping World to go through it before we purchased. They both let us down and we are now suffering the consequences. I don't know what to do at this point. We are still waiting to hear back from Keystone on whether or not they will repair; however, without knowing the damage that the leak(s) caused inside the walls or the ability to fix the awning at all, I feel that they should replace the camper, not repair it. Any thoughts or advice on how we can proceed would be greatly appreciated!!

[chuckster57]

Welcome to the forum

Sorry your experiencing these difficulties. While it is true that some units come from the factory with issues, they should have ALL been addressed BEFORE you showed up. IMO everything you have listed is a warranty issue and needs to be addressed, would I have the selling dealer do the work? That’s where the RV industry is different than others. Any Dealer doesn’t have to service a unit they didn’t sell and some don’t even service the ones they do sell.

I would continue talking to Keystone and try to find a dealer that will fix your trailer. As far as the damage to your truck, have you given them the chance to make it right?

[brandysgraphix]

Thanks for your response - I have contacted Keystone and I am hoping they will make this right. This is the second camper we've ever owned and the first one was great until we took it in to have the roof seals redone - after that, there were water leaks that caused rot in the flooring. I think that's why I am so concerned that we're going through this all over again, exempt this time, we spent twice as much money and it's happening immediately. It's disheartening that it now sits on a lot while I cancel trips that we had planned to take. We haven't been camping long (this is year 4 for us) and we enjoy it so much - I really hope we're able to hit the road again soon and put these issues behind us, but that will depend on Keystone.
As for the truck - no, we did not give them the opportunity to make it right as we weren't able to prove that it was them; however, the truck is brand new and as someone who would rub that truck with a diaper if I had time (lol), I know it wasn't there previously.
Thanks again for your response - much appreciated!!

[JRTJH]

Your experience is significantly different from the norm, even for Camping World. Most dealerships will take care of their customers and given the chance, will "make it right" if there's a problem. First, you need to "calmly and in an adult manner" discuss each of the issues with the General Manager of that Camping World facility. I have no doubt that he is completely in the dark about your issues. Give him a chance to correct the problems. If he fails, then contact the CEO of Camping World. The website has a link to his email address and he says that he will get involved to correct problems.... So, give their system a chance to make things right for you...

That said, If I were you, I'd take "time/dated photos of EVERY problem" and send them to Keystone. Read your Keystone Owner's Manual carefully. There are MANY exclusions to the 1 over overall warranty. Adjustments, roof leaks, slide problems, door/cabinet adjustments are only paid for during the first 90 days of ownership. After that, Keystone considers those types of repairs to be "general maintenance responsibilities" and fall on the owner, not the warranty.... Argue with them if you want, but you've only got the first 90 days to get most of these things fixed or the factory likely won't fix them under warranty... So, photos, Photos, PHOTOS and documentation of every phone call, every email, every face to face conversation that you have with the dealership and send them to Keystone as they occur, not in a 3" thick folder after you've exhausted all hope with the dealer. Keep Keystone in the loop at every step of the process....

Believe it or not, Keystone is one of the "better companies" when it comes to building trailers and fixing their mistakes.

If I were you, I'd call and make an appointment to meet with the dealership owner/general manager and have a documented outline of what you want to tell him, complete with all the examples of your experiences with his staff and their "lies/misrepresentations" to you.... Give him a chance to fix his problems, and don't accept responsibility for them, it's not your fault, although if you don't act within that first 90 day "window" you're going to inherit his problems at day 91......

[brandysgraphix]

Thanks so much for your response. I appreciate the detailed information on resolutions and I will definitely follow your advice. Since we only purchased about 40 days ago, we are well within the warranty window and hopefully we can put this behind us quickly.
Thanks again for your advice!!

[Customer1]

Welcome.

Most of your issues aren't completely Keystone's fault but they are responsible and will take care of you. All RV factories throw the pieces together and rely on the dealers to perform quality control. It is the selling dealer's responsibility to go over the entire RV testing and inspecting every inch and then correcting any deficiencies before delivery to the customer.

Tell Keystone you need a different dealer. Try to find a local independent dealer. If they suggest Gander be aware that they are just Camping World operating under a different name.

[wiredgeorge]

Suggest you google "oklahoma lemon law". I am not confident a travel trailer is covered but look at the Oklahoma Attorney General's website. I think the lemon law covers motorized vehicles only. Since Oklahoma doesn't have a specific government entity that enforces the law, you would have to find a lawyer and take either the dealer or Keystone to court. Best to continue pursuing the issues through your dealer with Keystone.

[sourdough]

John is on point. I deal primarily with Camping World for a few reasons; 1) I know my local dealership and every management person in it and see them a few times a month (still owe them lunch for taking care of me), 2) they are the Keystone dealer and I have found Keystone has the floorplans I like along with pricing etc. - including weight which is important to me because I refuse to buy a diesel or dually (yet) and 3) Accountability they have a layered management structure that doesn't stop at the dealership - and they have been extremely responsive to me over the years.

In your case that dealership did you wrong. The unit should have been gone over and prepped before you ever saw it. I've been in some in that shape but it was after I was told it was a new arrival and wasn't really "ready", but I insisted. The fellow walking you through the unit wasn't doing his job. Enough of that.

I don't know who you have been dealing with at the dealership but if you haven't at least spoken to the service manager, you should have. At this point forget that. Do as John mentioned and get in touch with the GM of CW. Call him on the phone discuss the issues, your concerns, the damages and personal inconvenience then set a time and date for a face to face and insist that the service manager be there. In that conversation get the email for the GM. Insist the meeting is in short order - not weeks from now. Going forward use the email for primary communication, phone supplemental, to keep a written record of issues/responses. I copy myself on all things like that.

Do not go overboard to be "mad" or threatening. Be firm. Be stern. Be professional. I won't smile until I get a resolution I like. Do not let them push or tell you "that's the way the all are"; that would be totally wrong. Don't leave until they agree to what you want (within reason). If for any reason they won't budge, are argumentative, not helpful etc. just tell them you will be in contact with corporate for their assistance. The GMs (smart ones) know what that means and don't want them involved in their mistakes. I have contacted the CW corporate team many times and worked with many of the senior staff. They will, and do, help and have every time for me. Use it as a last resort but don't hesitate to do it. Marcus Lemonis has always done what he said he would in my experience.

Don't drag this out. Time will run out before you know it because working with a dealership/Keystone and the suppliers, which are all now affected by covid, will take some time.....and may take on a life of its own. Good luck and post back with progress or any questions.

[brandysgraphix]

Your posts have been very helpful and much appreciated. Progress report is that CW did not submit all the repairs to Keystone so I found out today that we are starting from scratch. … frustrating... Of the 15 issues we have, they submitted 4 - one of which is to 'patch' the roof rather than remove/replace due to the wrinkles, air pockets, and screws that lay on their side and were simply sealed over. There is also a defect (looks like perhaps an industrial staple) protruding from underneath the liner above where the water leak occurred. I am not comfortable with band-aiding over the issues only to have them reappear in 6 months to a year (especially on a camper that is less than 2 months old).

I was told that they didn't submit for the awning to be repaired because there is nothing they can do about it. The awning is not level and rubs against the front corner of the slide. The first time we used it, we were concerned. So, we put a pool noodle over the corner of the slide in order to avoid the corner rubbing a hole in the awning; however, the night it rained and the awning tipped to drain the water off, we knew that wasn't going to work. It stretched the awning to the point that we had to retract it until it stopped raining... so much for having an awning over our door. When I asked the service writer at CW why this wasn't submitted to Keystone, he said that it wouldn't be approved and it would damage the structural integrity of the unit. He then said that there is no place to move the awning to. Then he told me that the awning will shrink over time (?? - is that right??) and if we give it more time, it will be okay.

I have been in contact with both the GM at Camping World in Tulsa where we purchased the camper as well as the Service Manager at Camping World in Strafford where we have taken it for repairs. I have talked to others along the way as well (the service writer in Strafford and the service manager in Tulsa). I have also been emailing back and forth with Owner Relations at Keystone. After hearing today that I am pretty much starting from scratch due to CW not submitting all the issues for repair, my frustration level continues to climb. My 'calm, adult manner' may be overridden soon, John.

[chuckster57]

Awning fabric will shrink over time? I’ve never seen that. Keep after them and document anything they say, better yet get it in writing. Me personally, having years of experience working on RV’s, I think they are playing games and trying to get you to pay...customer pay at shop rates is much better that warranty labor rates.

[sourdough]

OP, you are being given the royal runaround. The "stern" part I discussed previously needs to be the mode now. Also, do you know anything about trailers, the mechanics, operation etc.? Sometimes you have to "guide" them in what a solution should be vs letting someone with nothing in the game come up with some off the wall band aid.

As an example; just sat down with the SM at my CW yesterday discussing the issues I'm having with my new trailer. (it's been in a few weeks for warranty work). He knows me well and knows my expectations. As we discussed solutions for the Darco fabric problem under my slides I sort of threw a line in the water and said "I don't want this Darco issue recurring again. I want a permanent solution" (we had already talked about that at great length). I then went on to then hesitantly make an offer; "if CW doesn't want to do this thing right and just repair it, I'd be willing to throw some money at it to get it fixed permanently". He sat back in his chair and said " I didn't hear that. I don't want to hear that. It's a brand new trailer for crying out loud and they need to step up - you aren't paying anything. I've already contacted the Keystone rep to prep him for what we are going to propose". THAT is what your SM and service dept. should be doing for you instead of not even turning it in saying there's nothing they can do about it - that's unbelievable. THEY need to be neck deep in trying to fix your problems, make them like new, make it right and make you whole - not trying to brush you off and sweep you out the door.

Remember, Keystone and their customer relations folks, depend 100% on what the DEALER presents to them. You can tell them, send them pics etc. but the dealer is the one they listen to. The dealer represents you (or is supposed to) and is supposed to present your case in the best way possible to achieve the best outcome for you. Yours is doing nothing for you, and more importantly, possibly hurting your case. They need to go in loaded for bear from the gitgo, not constantly revising their findings and requests.

Reading your last post, I'm wondering what the relationship is between the Tulsa store and the Stafford store is? Does one GM have both stores? You mention 2 different SMs; how are you trying to do that? If you are trying to manage this repair between 2 different stores, 2 SMs, service depts. etc. you are going to have a mess.

[atkinsb3]

A lot of people on this forum (Including me) have felt your pain. My new trailer started having issues soon after we bought it and the Camping World service center were we bought it was absolutely no help and very frustrating to deal with.

I decided to start tackling things myself, which included a lot of the issues you mentioned including a leak in the roof, and took the advice from people on this forum. I finally have a good used camper that still has that new camper smell!

Best of luck to you and hang in there.

[LHaven]

Originally Posted by brandysgraphix

he stated that there was a reset button...
Then he told me that the awning will shrink over time...

At this point I would sneak a peek into the General Manager's office, to see if Jon Lovitz has a day job.

[Mikelff]

Originally Posted by brandysgraphix

Thanks so much for your response. I appreciate the detailed information on resolutions and I will definitely follow your advice. Since we only purchased about 40 days ago, we are well within the warranty window and hopefully we can put this behind us quickly.
Thanks again for your advice!!

Ditto on the documentation/ photos. Make sure they are dated and even time of day you discussed or contacted dealer or Keystone. Some people will try to stall until your warranty expires, then its your problem. Once you notify them, and have everything documented, even though it may be past the 90 days when they finally get to fixing it, they are still obligated to fix everything on your list that you told them about, as you did so before the 90 days was up. Document, document, document. Pictures don’t lie. As soon as you find something that needs repair, notify them immediately and follow up with email and photo. Follow up and make sure repairs are done correctly. If not, again, photo and document until they get it right. Don’t let them slide. If still not satisfied, get Camping World corporate involved and same with Keystone.

[jimborokz]

Originally Posted by brandysgraphix

Your posts have been very helpful and much appreciated. Progress report is that CW did not submit all the repairs to Keystone so I found out today that we are starting from scratch. … frustrating... Of the 15 issues we have, they submitted 4 - one of which is to 'patch' the roof rather than remove/replace due to the wrinkles, air pockets, and screws that lay on their side and were simply sealed over. There is also a defect (looks like perhaps an industrial staple) protruding from underneath the liner above where the water leak occurred. I am not comfortable with band-aiding over the issues only to have them reappear in 6 months to a year (especially on a camper that is less than 2 months old).

I was told that they didn't submit for the awning to be repaired because there is nothing they can do about it. The awning is not level and rubs against the front corner of the slide. The first time we used it, we were concerned. So, we put a pool noodle over the corner of the slide in order to avoid the corner rubbing a hole in the awning; however, the night it rained and the awning tipped to drain the water off, we knew that wasn't going to work. It stretched the awning to the point that we had to retract it until it stopped raining... so much for having an awning over our door. When I asked the service writer at CW why this wasn't submitted to Keystone, he said that it wouldn't be approved and it would damage the structural integrity of the unit. He then said that there is no place to move the awning to. Then he told me that the awning will shrink over time (?? - is that right??) and if we give it more time, it will be okay.

I have been in contact with both the GM at Camping World in Tulsa where we purchased the camper as well as the Service Manager at Camping World in Strafford where we have taken it for repairs. I have talked to others along the way as well (the service writer in Strafford and the service manager in Tulsa). I have also been emailing back and forth with Owner Relations at Keystone. After hearing today that I am pretty much starting from scratch due to CW not submitting all the issues for repair, my frustration level continues to climb. My 'calm, adult manner' may be overridden soon, John.

I believe there may be a solution to the awning issue. They may have installed the wrong awning. They have an awning with a lower pitch for ones that go over the slide. Our awning extends over our dinette slide and clears it even when it dumps the rain. That should be how your works.

[Northcamper]

We have brought our 2018 326RL Outback back to the dealer (Great Outdoors) a number of times it sits for weeks for even minor fixes. Last year we had a leak under double refrigerator/stove slide and it went as far as our rear living room sofa. Thought it might be because of it wasn't level. Two weeks ago we checked and the unit is perfectly level. This is our third winter and this only happens when the slides are in. We had it open all summer long without a problem. We contacted the dealer and they said it's the roof it's on you to get it fixed and we'll make a note of it. So much for the extended warranty.

[Jerry S]

Oh BS, quit making excuses for Keystone, everyone one of those is Keystone's fault and people like you are the reason they keep making junk. I bought a brand new Keystone and the first rainstorm had a river of water running down the inside walls and across the cabinets and across the floor. One whole section of one of the inside walls was not fastened to anything every nail and rivet missed the studs. One of the awning arms was miss drilled so they just drilled another set of holes and didn't bother to seal the miss-drilled holes. don't tell me these issues are not Keystone's fault. I would not buy another one of their pieces of junk if you paid me to buy it.

Originally Posted by Customer1

Welcome.

Most of your issues aren't completely Keystone's fault but they are responsible and will take care of you. All RV factories throw the pieces together and rely on the dealers to perform quality control. It is the selling dealer's responsibility to go over the entire RV testing and inspecting every inch and then correcting any deficiencies before delivery to the customer.

Tell Keystone you need a different dealer. Try to find a local independent dealer. If they suggest Gander be aware that they are just Camping World operating under a different name.

[flybouy]

Originally Posted by Jerry S

Oh BS, quit making excuses for Keystone, everyone one of those is Keystone's fault and people like you are the reason they keep making junk. I bought a brand new Keystone and the first rainstorm had a river of water running down the inside walls and across the cabinets and across the floor. One whole section of one of the inside walls was not fastened to anything every nail and rivet missed the studs. One of the awning arms was miss drilled so they just drilled another set of holes and didn't bother to seal the miss-drilled holes. don't tell me these issues are not Keystone's fault. I would not buy another one of their pieces of junk if you paid me to buy it.

"People like you?" Really, I guess you don't include yourself in that group? I don't know how and inside wall can cause a leak as interior walls do not in any way pentrate thru the outside of the trailer. Tank vents often run thru interior walls and then thru the roof. If they are not properly sealed they can leak. The trailers have Robertson screws staples and not "nails and rivets" in their construction. Small brads (Finish nails) are used to attach the trim peices.

I'm sympathetic to your dissatisfaction with your issues but it struck me wrong to blame others for buying a product that you yourself bought.

[wiredgeorge]

Customer1 posted his response to this OLD thread almost two years ago and was just now called out? Seems like folks like to search for threads that complain about Keystone workmanship/quality and vent a little. Not saying Keystone quality good, just negative rants without any suggestions are not helping anyone.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by Jerry S

Oh BS, quit making excuses for Keystone, everyone one of those is Keystone's fault and people like you are the reason they keep making junk. I bought a brand new Keystone and the first rainstorm had a river of water running down the inside walls and across the cabinets and across the floor. One whole section of one of the inside walls was not fastened to anything every nail and rivet missed the studs. One of the awning arms was miss drilled so they just drilled another set of holes and didn't bother to seal the miss-drilled holes. don't tell me these issues are not Keystone's fault. I would not buy another one of their pieces of junk if you paid me to buy it.

Do you still have that "piece of junk"? Did either Keystone or your dealer do anything about those issues? Or did you just come here to bitch cause you didn't do anything about these issues BEFORE you signed paperwork?
Read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page, there's not any Keystone representation on this forum. If you have questions, fire away or head to your dealer to complain.
In the past couple years I seriously doubt you would/could find ANY make, model or brand that wouldn't have a long list of issues regardless how much $$ you sent on it.