I’m Done!!

[Jacketsbum]

I have a 338RLK Cougar fiver. It has a 12800 GVR weight limit with 5200LBS axles. Do the math! I’ve owned it for five years and I have had three broken springs one bent axle two broken spring shackles and one equalizer. One of those broken springs and shackle was up in the middle of the Yukon 185 miles away from anything !! I do not run with my tanks full and we are very careful not to overload it but this thing is overloaded dry at 10,600 pounds I know some of the weight sits in the bed of the truck 20% or so but this thing ever since I’ve owned it bounces all over the road throws everything around inside the camper. So we have decided to replace everything under there with the Morryde independent suspension. No more axles, wheels will be independent of each other and we are going with the 7000 pound times two system which will give us 14,000 pound capacity max. I have read nothing but good reviews about this from everyone who has gotten it and I feel that is the way to go. no it’s not cheap but peace of mind is what I’m after. is there anyone on these boards who have purchased this for their Keystone?

[CedarCreekWoody]

That is jnteresting. It seems most campers have marginal suspension systems. Cost?

[Jacketsbum]

About $5200 without the disc brake upgrade. $8000 with it. I just had all my brakes replaced three months ago so I will just have them reuse those

[JRTJH]

If you currently have 5200 pound axles, you have 6 lug hubs and 6 lug wheels (15 or 16" wheels)...

If you're considering replacing these axles with Morryde independent suspension 7000 pound system, that ONLY comes with 8 lug hubs and will prevent you from using your existing hubs or brakes or wheels and possibly tires...

Have you discussed the change out with someone from Morryde and explained EXACTLY what you have and what you want to install ???

When I replaced my OEM 5200 pound axles, Keystone would not ship or approve any upgrade to 6000 or heavier axles. I did "go ahead with the upgrade" and I ordered custom built 6000 pound Dexter axles (custom only in placement of the spring perches) and did the install myself. The 5200 and 6000 axle hubs are both 6 lug configuration. The 7K and 8K hubs are 8 lug configuration with ENTIRELY different bearing/race configurations from the 5.2/6K axles.

Morryde independent suspension system comes with hubs, brake assemblies, bearings and races already installed. It would likely be more expensive to attempt to pull off those parts and replace them with your "off the old axle parts" and as for the bearing/races, 5200 pound parts won't fit a 7000 pound spindle. And unless you're planning to replace your wheels (6 vs 8 lug) you'll be limited to a maximum of a 6K morryde system.... The 7K system only comes with 8 lug hubs and your current 6 lug hubs don't fit the 7K spindles...

I'd suggest some more "pointed discussion with a Morryde customer service representative" before making any deposits that aren't refundable.....

[Jacketsbum]

Yes I know about the upgrade to eight lug wheels I will be doing that. that is not included in the cost that I quoted I will also be putting new tires on. however the size of the wheel will be 16 inch the same as what I have now so I was under the assumption that I could reuse the brakes that I have now. I will have more discussion with the representative the closer I get to the date of installation. I am scheduled to have it done the end of May and she told me I will be contacted with more information. But I will do whatever it takes to get this done. getting stranded out in the middle of the Yukon is no cup of tea.

[sourdough]

I chose to go with new 7k axles, springs, MorRyde SRE4000 suspension, 3 x factor braces and disc brakes. This trailer came with 6k axles but 8 lug wheels. Performance Trailer Braking was surprised on the 8 lug wheels etc. but it all came together.

I would highly recommend the installation of disc brakes if you are going to all the other trouble. There is no comparison, none, between discs and the regular drum setups.

I've heard good things about the MorRyde independent suspension but the issues you mention you are having make me wonder if there is not more at play.

[jasin1]

my fifth wheel is about the same gvwr and i can leave things on the kitchen counter that will still be there 1000 miles later..could the roads in the yukon be somewhat to blame? your driving style perhaps?

believe me i know they aren’t built like tanks but that seems like an awful lot of problems between bouncing around and failed suspensions

[Alpine Custom Upgrade]

Originally Posted by Jacketsbum

I have a 338RLK Cougar fiver. It has a 12800 GVR weight limit with 5200LBS axles. Do the math! I’ve owned it for five years and I have had three broken springs one bent axle two broken spring shackles and one equalizer. One of those broken springs and shackle was up in the middle of the Yukon 185 miles away from anything !! I do not run with my tanks full and we are very careful not to overload it but this thing is overloaded dry at 10,600 pounds I know some of the weight sits in the bed of the truck 20% or so but this thing ever since I’ve owned it bounces all over the road throws everything around inside the camper. So we have decided to replace everything under there with the Morryde independent suspension. No more axles, wheels will be independent of each other and we are going with the 7000 pound times two system which will give us 14,000 pound capacity max. I have read nothing but good reviews about this from everyone who has gotten it and I feel that is the way to go. no it’s not cheap but peace of mind is what I’m after. is there anyone on these boards who have purchased this for their Keystone?

If it were mine, I would not use anything less than 7K axles, 8 lug 16" wheels and 14 ply tires of a known good brand. To me, any lesser of an axle rating and considering the extremes trailers go through is pushing the stated rating of the axle/tires to their max. When I design/build something, I stay below 75% of rated capacity. At least this time, size matters!

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by sourdough

I chose to go with new 7k axles, springs, MorRyde SRE4000 suspension, 3 x factor braces and disc brakes. This trailer came with 6k axles but 8 lug wheels. Performance Trailer Braking was surprised on the 8 lug wheels etc. but it all came together.

I would highly recommend the installation of disc brakes if you are going to all the other trouble. There is no comparison, none, between discs and the regular drum setups.

I've heard good things about the MorRyde independent suspension but the issues you mention you are having make me wonder if there is not more at play.

I'd have to agree about the disc brakes 100%! Once you've had a rv with disc you'll never want drums again.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by Jacketsbum

I have a 338RLK Cougar fiver. It has a 12800 GVR weight limit with 5200LBS axles. Do the math! I’ve owned it for five years and I have had three broken springs one bent axle two broken spring shackles and one equalizer. One of those broken springs and shackle was up in the middle of the Yukon 185 miles away from anything !! I do not run with my tanks full and we are very careful not to overload it but this thing is overloaded dry at 10,600 pounds I know some of the weight sits in the bed of the truck 20% or so but this thing ever since I’ve owned it bounces all over the road throws everything around inside the camper. So we have decided to replace everything under there with the Morryde independent suspension. No more axles, wheels will be independent of each other and we are going with the 7000 pound times two system which will give us 14,000 pound capacity max. I have read nothing but good reviews about this from everyone who has gotten it and I feel that is the way to go. no it’s not cheap but peace of mind is what I’m after. is there anyone on these boards who have purchased this for their Keystone?

Well how many miles and what kind of roads at what speeds?

These are the specs I found for your 5th wheel.

Length 37'- 2"
Dry Weight 10,640#
Payload Capacity 1,850#
GVWR 12,490#
Hitch Weight 2,095#

It shows a GVWR of 12,490#, but more importantly payload of only 1,850# for a 37' 5th wheel. Have you scaled your unit recently?
Did you ever consider the upgrade to wet bolts and heavy duty shackles! If you are within GVWR, the weight on the axles should be less then 10,000# likely in the 9,500# range.

[Jacketsbum]

Originally Posted by rhagfo

Well how many miles and what kind of roads at what speeds?

These are the specs I found for your 5th wheel.

Length 37'- 2"
Dry Weight 10,640#
Payload Capacity 1,850#
GVWR 12,490#
Hitch Weight 2,095#

It shows a GVWR of 12,490#, but more importantly payload of only 1,850# for a 37' 5th wheel. Have you scaled your unit recently?
Did you ever consider the upgrade to wet bolts and heavy duty shackles! If you are within GVWR, the weight on the axles should be less then 10,000# likely in the 9,500# range.

I’ve been all over the country on every type of road from Nova Scofta to Alaska to Florida. I have upgraded to wet bolts along with the MorRyde SRE4000 equalizer suspension, and 3 x factorbraces. I still broke another spring after that was installed and had a crack in one of the shackles that I had welded. I did weigh it empty and it was 9880 dry with everything out of it and hooked to the truck. The axles which are supposed to have a slight bow in them are straight. When the dealer did the brakes recently he noticed that and suggested I take it to a frame and axle shop for an inspection. They are also the ones who found the crack. I’m just tired of worrying about whether this thing is going to hold together on every trip! Like I said at the top, I’m done!!

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Jacketsbum

I’ve been all over the country on every type of road from Nova Scofta to Alaska to Florida. I have upgraded to wet bolts along with the MorRyde SRE4000 equalizer suspension, and 3 x factorbraces. I still broke another spring after that was installed and had a crack in one of the shackles that I had welded. I did weigh it empty and it was 9880 dry with everything out of it and hooked to the truck. The axles which are supposed to have a slight bow in them are straight. When the dealer did the brakes recently he noticed that and suggested I take it to a frame and axle shop for an inspection. They are also the ones who found the crack. I’m just tired of worrying about whether this thing is going to hold together on every trip! Like I said at the top, I’m done!!

Hmmmmm Either I'm not understanding the statement in red or ....,

You said the trailer "empty" weighed 9880 when hooked to the truck.....

If that is correct, then what I "think" you're saying is that you drove the truck/trailer onto a set of scale pads and the trailer (weight on the axles) was 9880 ??? If that's true, then adding 20% for the pin weight would mean a pin of around 1960 pounds for a total "empty trailer weight" pushing 11856.

With a GVWR of 12490 and an empty weight of 11856, your "maximum cargo capacity would be around 634 pounds.

Looking at it another way, with 9880 on the axles when the trailer is empty, that's 4940 on each of the 5200 pound axles, which "by math" means each axle, when the trailer is empty, can only carry an additional 260 pounds before you overload the axles.

If your DW packs for a trip like my DW does, you'll overload the axles just with her shoes and the extra soap she packs away (in case there isn't a WalMart handy).....

In other words, if I'm reading your post about the trailer weight correctly, then what I see is a trailer that very probably is, and has been, over loaded by quite a bit on those 5200 pound axles and that would explain much of the problems with broken springs, cracked shackles and "flat axle beams".....

Looking at it another way, Keystone says your trailer with no batteries, no supplies, no spare tire and no optional equipment weighs 10640 as it leaves the factory. You're saying that hooked to the truck, your "scale weight" is 9880, which I take to mean the pin is "on the truck, not included in the trailer weight".....

It sure looks to me, that your trailer has been well over the GVWR when you consider a "hooked to the truck weight of 9880"... Maybe I'm not understanding the conditions when you weighed, or maybe ....... Hmmmm

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Hmmmmm Either I'm not understanding the statement in red or ....,

You said the trailer "empty" weighed 9880 when hooked to the truck.....

If that is correct, then what I "think" you're saying is that you drove the truck/trailer onto a set of scale pads and the trailer (weight on the axles) was 9880 ??? If that's true, then adding 20% for the pin weight would mean a pin of around 1960 pounds for a total "empty trailer weight" pushing 11856.

With a GVWR of 12490 and an empty weight of 11856, your "maximum cargo capacity would be around 634 pounds.

Looking at it another way, with 9880 on the axles when the trailer is empty, that's 4940 on each of the 5200 pound axles, which "by math" means each axle, when the trailer is empty, can only carry an additional 260 pounds before you overload the axles.

If your DW packs for a trip like my DW does, you'll overload the axles just with her shoes and the extra soap she packs away (in case there isn't a WalMart handy).....

In other words, if I'm reading your post about the trailer weight correctly, then what I see is a trailer that very probably is, and has been, over loaded by quite a bit on those 5200 pound axles and that would explain much of the problems with broken springs, cracked shackles and "flat axle beams".....

Looking at it another way, Keystone says your trailer with no batteries, no supplies, no spare tire and no optional equipment weighs 10640 as it leaves the factory. You're saying that hooked to the truck, your "scale weight" is 9880, which I take to mean the pin is "on the truck, not included in the trailer weight".....

It sure looks to me, that your trailer has been well over the GVWR when you consider a "hooked to the truck weight of 9880"... Maybe I'm not understanding the conditions when you weighed, or maybe ....... Hmmmm

This was what I was alluding to in post #6.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

This was what I was alluding to in post #6.

Yep... With a posted "trailer weight of 9880 when hitched to the truck" makes me believe that the weight on the scale pad with the trailer axles on it showed 9880. If that's true, with the weight that's on the pin, that trailer "empty" is weighing in (on the axles) almost as much as the factory GVWR. And that's not only the axle weight with no propane, no battery, no spare, no fluids, no NOTHING, but also the pin weight...

Seems either the OP is saying something we all are not understanding, or his trailer is significantly overloaded when he puts 1200-1500 pounds of cargo in it.

[Jacketsbum]

I pulled the trailer onto the scale and kept going until the truck was off. By saying empty I’m saying it was cleaned out of most anything we would load in it to travel. It still had the propane in it. It had the batteries, three of them because it has solar power. It had the spare. It had a tool box and some folding chairs, table and an ice maker in the basement. Tanks were empty. I was at a CAT scale. With the pin hooked to the truck, the weight slip was 9880.

The original purpose of this thread was to see if anyone here has installed the Morryde independent suspension, not to question what my fiver weighs. Whatever the weight is, is too much for the suspension under there now, so for piece of mind I am upgrading it.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Jacketsbum

I pulled the trailer onto the scale and kept going until the truck was off. By saying empty I’m saying it was cleaned out of most anything we would load in it to travel. It still had the propane in it. It had the batteries, three of them because it has solar power. It had the spare. It had a tool box and some folding chairs, table and an ice maker in the basement. Tanks were empty. I was at a CAT scale. With the pin hooked to the truck, the weight slip was 9880.

The original purpose of this thread was to see if anyone here has installed the Morryde independent suspension, not to question what my fiver weighs. Whatever the weight is, is too much for the suspension under there now, so for piece of mind I am upgrading it.

the only reason anyone is figuring out what your fiver weighs is because you started the thread off by listing your weights and some of your individual details and said it was undersized from the factory…it may be marginal and many people upgrade but don’t know why you would take issue with people trying to decipher your combo when you laid it all out….oh and the solar panels and extra battery’s deduct from available payload also

[dutchmensport]

No experience with axles, although I did have a bent one myself just recently that got replaced. But I think I know when I bent it too. It wasn't one of my finer driving moments (if you know what I mean).

But I do certainly understand when the last straw breaks the camel's back. Personally, I see no harm done in replacing the axle. I don't know about the brakes, wheel, and tire sizes, but if the parts cannot be swapped out, just be prepared for that (which I think you are). I do not see any reason why your plan would not work for you. Good luck.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

the only reason anyone is figuring out what your fiver weighs is because you started the thread off by listing your weights and some of your individual details and said it was undersized from the factory…it may be marginal and many people upgrade but don’t know why you would take issue with people trying to decipher your combo when you laid it all out….oh and the solar panels and extra battery’s deduct from available payload also

I can't and won't speak for anyone else, but the reason I look "past the question" is because these trailers are built with "amateur spot welds" on chinese steel engineered to the minimum thickness required to carry a specific weight with no "safety margin". Then the parts are assembled by "Amish workers" who come into the plant at 4AM and go home as soon as they finish a specific number of trailers. They may be leaving at 1PM or at 5PM, depending on which shortcuts they take to get the trailer down the line....

When you consider putting an expensive "heavy duty independent suspension system" under that "built to the bare minimum standards with less than quality workmanship" what you're really doing is moving the weakest link up the chain...

Granted, putting 7K IS components, 8 lug wheels, disc brakes and 14ply tires under your 12K GVWR trailer WILL remove broken spring issues (there are no springs) and eliminate any hub/spindle problems and likely stop further tire issues....

BUT !!!!! Spending money on that upgrade won't do a damn thing to eliminate bent chassis rails, cracked welds on frame crossmembers, or stop sidewall cracks in the aluminum framework of the sidewalls or roof members...

What putting "too stiff of a suspension under the trailer" will do, is transfer the weakest link up the chain to the next weakest link...

All that said, if your trailer is "too heavy" you'll not be "making it better by spending $5K on an expensive suspension upgrade, but may very well be here next year asking how to repair the cracked welds in "those cheap crossmembers between the frame rails, you know, the ones with what looks like "re-bar" that runs zig-zag between two little metal L shape strips"...

These things, like it or not, are built as a "unit" and putting "parts strong enough for a tank" under it won't prevent sidewall cracks or frame weld breaks or stop the holding tank straps from wearing through the plastic to create leaks or prevent the tank straps from breaking as you drag a full black tank down the highway, spewing contents on windshields of those behind you....

The point is" If your trailer weighs what you say it does, then it's likely not only the suspension that's going to pay the price of being overloaded. Upgrade the suspension and you'll probably be moving the problem (weight) to another, likely more expensive component.....

Recommendation would be to look at the BIG PICTURE, not just replace the parts that keep breaking, but figure out WHY they are breaking and fix that issue.....

[jasin1]

Does anyone know if you order the factory solar upgrades that this changes Ty the gvwr of the trailer? End up with less payload on the vin sticker? Or if you order a factory generator?

[sourdough]

Reference post #18.

I am/was worried OP was looking for the new axles to raise his carrying capacity as his post #1 implies. The new axles won't, they only give you a better safety cushion. That 12,800 gvwr when surpassed is going to put every other little component in line to fail...like the frame, walls etc.

I've pulled a lot of miles and had things bounce around in a pop up and a couple of smaller RVs. Those were due to several factors, either being single axle, me being young and them spending 1/2 their time in the air. I've not had things shift and come undone to any degree since I've grown older, became more careful and started pulling larger trailers. The last 2 trailers, once I figured out what was what on the maiden voyage, have never lost anything. The last was fairly comparable to what the OP has weight wise. This goes back to what has been skirted a few times; loading, roads, driving etc. I think the OE axles are minimal but workable if one stays totally within weight guidelines and baby's them everywhere you go. The new system will be better but if overloaded something is still going to break.