Wiring short in slide-out

[Kanadakid]

Hello Keystone friends,

Any idea how I might run new wires from under the slideout up the outer wall to the top two light in my slide.

Seems after a two hour drive with trailer the two lights on my slide out are shorted. Both of them (LEDs) will not turn on. There is 13.6 volts on the wire going in through the bottom of the slide. Nothing at either light.

Think that one of the staples has shorted out the wire. Seems impossible to pull the wires through the bottom to snake new wires through. Think the wires are stapled up the wall and along the top of the slide.

We pull on both ends of the wires and can feel nothing on either end. Seems a staple shorting the wire is the most likely cause.

Any thoughts how we might be able to run a new wire to either of the lights ?

Anyone ever run into this issue ? What was your solution. Would be delighted if someone has some experience with this one !


Thanks everyone

Kid

[chuckster57]

If the wiring was shorted out it would blow a 12V fuse. I would remove the fixtures and check for 12V at the light. They are most likely daisy chained together and I’m thinking a bad connection.

[Kanadakid]

Thanks Chuck-ster

There is nothing at the fixture. There is 13.6 V at the wire before it enters the slice. So between the slide and the fixture there is a break in the voltage. The lights were on but dim before they completely went out.

You are correct though, think they are daisy chained -----one light has two wires the other one (larger) has three.

My theory is that a staple cut though the wire inside the slideout.


What do you think ?


Kid

[chuckster57]

You need a volt/ohm meter. Like I stated in the first response, if the wires are shorted out it would blow a fuse.

Have you checked voltage at the light fixtures? It’s possible that one or more LEDs have burned out.

[Kanadakid]

yes sir, I have fluke voltage meter. There is 13.6 at the wire as it goes into the slide wall thought the bottom of the slide. Looks like they drilled a hole for the wire then packed it with the hard black sealant. At the light fixture with fluke volt meter nothing. In other words the wire has 13.6 as it enters into the slide and nothing once it gets to the two fixtures. Don't see any way to get access to this wires up the wall and to the top of the slide. What do you think ? Any way to run a new wire behind the slide wall to the top of the slide /fixture ?
Kid

[sourdough]

Your light depends on the voltage to operate and the ground to complete the circuit. A loss of either one will result in a 0 volt reading; did you lose the ground or the positive lead?

[chuckster57]

If you removed the light that has 3 wires, I take it you removed the connectors ( probably bell crimps) and tested for voltage?

[travelin texans]

There's typically a clear plastic connector (Molex) about 2" wide & 3-4" long under the slide that changes from romex wire to braided wire to allow the wire to flex with slide movement. Might check that its not shorted, corroded or full of water.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

There's typically a clear plastic connector (Molex) about 2" wide & 3-4" long under the slide that changes from romex wire to braided wire to allow the wire to flex with slide movement. Might check that its not shorted, corroded or full of water.

That connector is usually for the 120VAC circuit.

[JRTJH]

Like Chuck, I do not believe this is a 12 VDC "short"... If it was, then you'd be blowing a 12 volt fuse in the power center distribution panel. It is, IMO, more likely a problem with the ground (on the other side of the light electrical connections)... I'd start by confirming the connections "at the light" are all good, then find a known good ground, clamp a wire to that ground and connect the other end of that wire to the ground "at the light base"....

If you "think about the way trailers are built, there is no "ground bonding strap" between the slide and the trailer chassis, the actual "slide frame" is not specifically grounded to the main trailer ground (where the battery negative terminal is connected)... Even if there is a "good ground at the light wires" there may not be a "good ground on the slide".....

Final thought: If you aren't blowing 12 volt fuses, then you don't have a short in the 12 volt supply line.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by Kanadakid

Hello Keystone friends,

Any idea how I might run new wires from under the slideout up the outer wall to the top two light in my slide.

Seems after a two hour drive with trailer the two lights on my slide out are shorted. Both of them (LEDs) will not turn on. There is 13.6 volts on the wire going in through the bottom of the slide. Nothing at either light.

Think that one of the staples has shorted out the wire. Seems impossible to pull the wires through the bottom to snake new wires through. Think the wires are stapled up the wall and along the top of the slide.

We pull on both ends of the wires and can feel nothing on either end. Seems a staple shorting the wire is the most likely cause.

Any thoughts how we might be able to run a new wire to either of the lights ?

Anyone ever run into this issue ? What was your solution. Would be delighted if someone has some experience with this one !


Thanks everyone

Kid

is there a switch in the slide for those two lights? could be a bad switch or wire off one of the terminals

and you can connect a meter to one of the wires at a time and the other meter lead to a good ground and check that way also…like others have said you may have just lost a ground and you can pick another spot for a good ground to wire to..the hot wire may still be good but won’t show with a meter between the two wires because of lost ground

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

is there a switch in the slide for those two lights? could be a bad switch or wire off one of the terminals

and you can connect a meter to one of the wires at a time and the other meter lead to a good ground and check that way also…like others have said you may have just lost a ground and you can pick another spot for a good ground to wire to..the hot wire may still be good but won’t show with a meter between the two wires because of lost ground

Just remember that the SLIDE ground is NOT the same as the main trailer CHASSIS GROUND...... So, testing the "light ground wire" by using a screw in the slide that connects to the aluminum frame is not going to verify that the "ground where the battery and converter are connected" is the same as the "slide ground"....

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Just remember that the SLIDE ground is NOT the same as the main trailer CHASSIS GROUND...... So, testing the "light ground wire" by using a screw in the slide that connects to the aluminum frame is not going to verify that the "ground where the battery and converter are connected" is the same as the "slide ground"....

I use a male plug with a long lead on the ground prong. Plug into ANY outlet and use that as ALL grounds are grounded together at the frame.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

I use a male plug with a long lead on the ground prong. Plug into ANY outlet and use that as ALL grounds are grounded together at the frame.

That will work since you're using an "electrical ground"... If someone were to use the window frame or an exposed screw as the ground (in the slide) then they wouldn't be "tied to the grounding strap between the slide ground and the trailer chassis ground."

What I was trying to convey is that if you pull the light fixture out of the ceiling and use one ohmmeter lead on the fixture ground wire and put the other lead on the metal frame of the slide, if the "bonding strap" or the "ground wire at the 120VAC outlet is broken, you wouldn't be able to identify the "missing ground" and COULD be misled into believing that the ground at the light is good.....

AND, anything you plug into the 120VAC outlet would still work fine, unless there's a problem where the hot lead is shorted out "inside the thing you plugged in"..... In other words, almost everything that runs on 120VAC would still work, even with the missing ground on the outlet.....

[chuckster57]

I only use that when I’m chasing 12VDC circuits since I use a test light that buzzes. Using it on a 120VAC circuit cooks it extra crispy instantly…loaned it once, he had to replace it.

It’s my first step “quick test”

[sourdough]

Thanks for clarifying what I should have made clear in post #6. If folks aren't familiar they don't realize how that ground works and if you put a meter on the positive side to the negative side and get 0 volts you still don't know if the problem is the positive lead or ground until you verify which one is open by using some method to get to a real ground. Battery, AC or DC, is always looking for its mate, ground, before it can do anything. Without a mate (ground) battery just sits there twiddling its fingers showing 0 volts.....

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Just remember that the SLIDE ground is NOT the same as the main trailer CHASSIS GROUND...... So, testing the "light ground wire" by using a screw in the slide that connects to the aluminum frame is not going to verify that the "ground where the battery and converter are connected" is the same as the "slide ground"....

Yes i understand John..years of owning boats of all sizes taught me to look for a “good ground”…i should have made it clear i was talking about a “known/ verified ground location”

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by jasin1

Yes i understand John..years of owning boats of all sizes taught me to look for a “good ground”…i should have made it clear i was talking about a “known/ verified ground location”

I'm just relating my personal experience from spending 2 days "chasing electrons", cussing, throwing stuff, cussing some more and then finally realizing that on MY trailer, the 12 volt ground between the slide frame and the main trailer chassis (where the battery negative cable is anchored) is the bare wire on the 120 volt outlet mounted on the wall of the slide....

I confirmed, at least 100 times, that there was a ground between the slide frame and the light that wouldn't work... EVERY time, I got continuity on the meter, but NO power to the light fixture. But I had 12 VDC coming into the light when I measured from the 12 volt fuse panel to the light input....

After 2 days, lots of cussing and DW not even coming near the trailer, I realized that I didn't have a ground "from the slide frame to the trailer chassis. Just a "jumper wire under the slide" and everything worked like it should.... Then through troubleshooting, I wound up back at the MOLEX plug where I found the ground wire on the ROMEX side disconnected.... I reconnected that MOLEX ground and everything worked without my "slide to chassis jumper wire"...

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

I'm just relating my personal experience from spending 2 days "chasing electrons", cussing, throwing stuff, cussing some more and then finally realizing that on MY trailer, the 12 volt ground between the slide frame and the main trailer chassis (where the battery negative cable is anchored) is the bare wire on the 120 volt outlet mounted on the wall of the slide....

I confirmed, at least 100 times, that there was a ground between the slide frame and the light that wouldn't work... EVERY time, I got continuity on the meter, but NO power to the light fixture. But I had 12 VDC coming into the light when I measured from the 12 volt fuse panel to the light input....

After 2 days, lots of cussing and DW not even coming near the trailer, I realized that I didn't have a ground "from the slide frame to the trailer chassis. Just a "jumper wire under the slide" and everything worked like it should.... Then through troubleshooting, I wound up back at the MOLEX plug where I found the ground wire on the ROMEX side disconnected.... I reconnected that MOLEX ground and everything worked without my "slide to chassis jumper wire"...

wiring issues can be frustrating lol…i didn’t take any offense at your explanation earlier i was just clarifying..sometimes what’s inside my head doesn’t translate well to what i type out in my posts

[chuckster57]

That’s one for my memory bank, the 120V ground in the molex.