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Old 02-15-2021, 01:50 PM   #1
crawford
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Smallest TV option for a Bullet 250BHS

After much research, we've narrowed down our new RV search to the new Bullet 250BHS.

Turns out we also need a new tow vehicle (which will be our only vehicle).

We live in the middle of a large city where parking options are limited and tight. I can't see us parking an F250 in our neighbourhood.

What's the *smallest* TV / daily driver that you all would recommend that could do the job safely?

I'm prepared to downsize (likely to a hybrid TT) if none of the TV options are appealing or practical for us.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:19 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crawford View Post
After much research, we've narrowed down our new RV search to the new Bullet 250BHS.

Turns out we also need a new tow vehicle (which will be our only vehicle).

We live in the middle of a large city where parking options are limited and tight. I can't see us parking an F250 in our neighbourhood.

What's the *smallest* TV / daily driver that you all would recommend that could do the job safely?

I'm prepared to downsize (likely to a hybrid TT) if none of the TV options are appealing or practical for us.

Thanks in advance!
A shortbed crew cab truck isn’t really too big.. it seems like a sports car compared to my new truck. You could either be a little uncomfortable parking until you get used to it ......or always uncomfortable while towing with an undersized TV . JMO
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:40 PM   #3
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Not sure what you have in mind when you say 'small tow vehicle' but that trailer is under 30' and has a GVWR of 7400 lbs. That is definitely in the realm of possibility for a 1/2 ton pickup, provided the truck isn't optioned out to the point where the payload takes a big hit.

Example for your selected trailer with 7400 lb GVWR:

962 lbs for tongue weight
100 lbs for the hitch
400 lbs of people
200 lbs of other gear in the truck

Obviously your people and gear will vary, so adjust accordingly. The example comes out to 1662 lbs. that will come off the truck's sticker payload. You will likely need to stay in the XLT or other brand equivalent trim level. My '19 F150 max tow XLT had 1873 pounds of payload.

If you are thinking some type of SUV, you may find something with a decent enough payload, but you will sacrifice wheelbase length, which creates other safety concerns.

Finally, you may know this already, but do not go by website/brochure payload values. Each truck has it's own unique payload value based on how it's optioned out Truck GVWR - its current weight = available payload
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Old 02-15-2021, 05:46 PM   #4
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Thanks for the replies.

I'm familiar with most of what has to be taken into consideration and as much as I'd like to just rely on the sales and marketing literature, I know enough to take it all with a grain of salt and to be realistic about what I need.

To be more specific, are there any SUVs on the market that would safely tow that Keystone model?

Even an F150 would take up two parking spots here and cause grief with the neighbours.
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Old 02-15-2021, 06:54 PM   #5
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I would not pull a trailer of that length with a short wheel base like in an SUV. Even a half ton PU will have some touchy times in high winds. That is a long trailer that can push the TV in windy conditions.
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:04 PM   #6
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As mentioned above, a well equipped (for towing) 1/2 ton truck would work. I would certainly have no problem with a properly equipped truck with that trailer.

I am not aware of any SUVs that have that kind of payload, other than possibly a previous generation expedition. We had a 2017 Expedition 4x4 stripper model for my old company, and it had a payload of 2050 lbs. But no, unfortunately, no common SUV is going to be able to safely tow that trailer. If you are that stuck for parking space, then a smaller trailer is in your future.
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:24 PM   #7
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I think that possibly, if you rephrase your question it might make a bit more sense to you:

You asked: What's the *smallest* TV / daily driver that you all would recommend that could do the job safely?

Possibly, the same "outcome" with a different perspective: How many corners can we cut and still be safe? And, when or which corner will make it unsafe?

You're asking about pulling a 30' travel trailer with a GVW of 7400 pounds with "the smallest vehicle that will do the job". Looking at the floorplan, it's a bunkhouse model, so I'd suspect there's plans for more than two people to sleep in/travel with the trailer... Now, that "smallest vehicle" consideration is compounded by multiple passengers, increased cargo both in the tow vehicle and in the trailer.

Looking realistically, you're facing around 1000 pounds of tongue weight/hitch weight 12% of GVW + 125 for a weight distribution hitch is 1013 pounds of "trailer tongue weight"...

Most recommendations call for a vehicle wheelbase of 110" for a 20' trailer and 4" of added wheelbase for each foot of additional trailer. When you consider that a Ford Expedition wheelbase is 122", that wheelbase supports a 20' trailer and the additional 12" supports 3 more feet, for a total length of 23'. When you consider that an Expedition will take up the same "two parking spaces that a truck will occupy" it becomes quite clear that neither the "smallest Expedition will support a 30' travel trailer and both it and a half ton truck will not fit the allotted parking spaces.

You might be better served looking at Escape/Edge size vehicles and a small, lightweight popup trailer. That's a 3500 pound max trailer capacity for a properly equipped "small tow vehicle" that will hopefully fit in the allotted parking space. You're not going to find a suitable, large travel trailer that can be safely towed by a vehicle that only takes up half the parking space of a half ton truck....
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:36 PM   #8
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There's an excellent video in post #23 in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...t=45791&page=3

Take a look at what "the smallest tow vehicle" is not capable of achieving.....
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:21 PM   #9
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Hello and welcome to the forum.
F250's come in the same length as an F150, they come with a real drive train and suspension. There is nothing smaller to tow that trailer.
It's 30' of trailer and will punish any TV less than the F250.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:22 AM   #10
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Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. It's clear that none of the vehicles I would consider owning would be suitable for that size / weight of TT.

Moving on to plan B... I sense a hybrid TT in my future

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
Most recommendations call for a vehicle wheelbase of 110" for a 20' trailer and 4" of added wheelbase for each foot of additional trailer. When you consider that a Ford Expedition wheelbase is 122", that wheelbase supports a 20' trailer and the additional 12" supports 3 more feet, for a total length of 23'.
This is interesting. Much of my research has been focused on weights (as described by other posters). I have not seen this guidance on the relationship between TV wheelbase and the length of the trailer. I'm not sure how that math works out for those towing 38' toy haulers, but I'll definitely keep my eyes out for them on the road and give them a wide berth!

Quote:
There's an excellent video in post #23 in this thread: https://www.keystoneforums.com/forum...t=45791&page=3

Take a look at what "the smallest tow vehicle" is not capable of achieving.....
Yikes... that was illuminating!
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Old 02-16-2021, 08:49 AM   #11
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If you only have parking for say a VW Beetle then your better option would be a bunkhouse motorhome that could be stored wherever you plan to store the towable, then set up & tow the smaller vehicle that fits in your parking spot.
This solution gives the family a bathroom while traveling without stopping every 15 minutes, each their own space so "they're touching me" won't be heard during the trip.
This may cost more, but possibly not much more than buying a towable & a suitable tv.
Not to mention a hybrid of the same size will still require the same amount of tv, they're still big long square boxes within a few pounds of a TT.
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Old 02-16-2021, 02:47 PM   #12
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Hi Crawford,

We have a 2018 Landrover discovery 5 and are awaiting our 250bhs. We have been debating what TV we might need but I did run some numbers on the Disc 5. (see attached pdf).

Most weights seem ok but payload of Discovery will be tight; Just 1157lbs and 2 adults, 2 kids + tongue weight.

Health warning> I am no expert and am considering an F250 as well.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Tow weights.pdf (192.3 KB, 410 views)
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Old 02-16-2021, 02:58 PM   #13
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Old 02-16-2021, 03:01 PM   #14
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Thanks for sharing. The Discovery is on our shortlist of new vehicles -- how do you like yours? Gas or Diesel?

In the end, based on feedback I have received to date, I'm likely going to get something smaller in order to stay well within the limits (and my capabilities).
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Old 02-16-2021, 03:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin J View Post
Hi Crawford,

We have a 2018 Landrover discovery 5 and are awaiting our 250bhs. We have been debating what TV we might need but I did run some numbers on the Disc 5. (see attached pdf).

Most weights seem ok but payload of Discovery will be tight; Just 1157lbs and 2 adults, 2 kids + tongue weight.

Health warning> I am no expert and am considering an F250 as well.
Are you considering a f250 to carry your discovery around in? ... just kiddin...that’s a pretty short wheelbase light tow vehicle...I wouldn’t recommend it personally
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Old 02-16-2021, 04:04 PM   #16
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I agree with jasin1, it is a short wheelbase and light for towing that trailer.
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Old 02-16-2021, 05:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin J View Post
Hi Crawford,

We have a 2018 Landrover discovery 5 and are awaiting our 250bhs. We have been debating what TV we might need but I did run some numbers on the Disc 5. (see attached pdf).

Most weights seem ok but payload of Discovery will be tight; Just 1157lbs and 2 adults, 2 kids + tongue weight.

Health warning> I am no expert and am considering an F250 as well.
In addition to the modest amount of payload remaining to carry the tongue weight, I noticed you only allowed 25 lbs for a hitch. I saw on another forum that the LR owner's manual indicates you should not use a weight distributing hitch (WDH). I'm guessing this is the reason for showing such a light weight. Apparently the LR is some type of unibody frame construction. I've read in many other posts that this often precludes the use of a WDH.

I would think utilizing a properly setup WDH goes a long way in ensuring towing stability. Since you can't even use one on many?/most? SUV's due to their frame construction, it's another strike against towing a good sized trailer with one.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin J View Post
Hi Crawford,

We have a 2018 Landrover discovery 5 and are awaiting our 250bhs. We have been debating what TV we might need but I did run some numbers on the Disc 5. (see attached pdf).

Most weights seem ok but payload of Discovery will be tight; Just 1157lbs and 2 adults, 2 kids + tongue weight.

Health warning> I am no expert and am considering an F250 as well.
Several flaws in your calculations!
Max tow weight of the LR, or any vehicle concerning towing RVs & the dry weight of any rv are totally useless numbers that shouldn't be used in any calculations. Tow vehicle payload & rv GVWR posted from each of those vehicles, not brochures or literature numbers, are 2 of the best numbers to calculate from.
The 10.75% tongue weight is on the lightweight side, 13% of the GVWR of whatever rv you chose is a more real world tongue weight.
Also unibody vehicles such as your LR the use of WDHs is not recommended, but is is absolutely required for any/all TTs regardless of the tv.
Towing a 30' TT with your LR or any vehicle similar would not be a wise decision. There are vehicles that are designed to be tvs & there's those that never were/never will be, one of those is a LR.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:40 PM   #19
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I guess I'm lost on this. OP wants the "smallest" TV available to tow a mid sized RV??? But, it can't be over the size of a Smart car so it will fit "somewhere". The question and expectations are not realistic...at all. A particular trailer requires "abc" for a TV. A particular TV has specific capabilities that are 100% predictable, and calculable. If you simply take the specs of a potential TV you can easily determine what it can tow. If you take the specs of the trailer you can then easily determine the size of the required TV. None of which meets the requirements of trying to fit in a small parking place somewhere. Travel trailers of any size require a truck to tow them safely. Trucks don't fit in micro sized parking spots. ????
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Old 02-16-2021, 08:00 PM   #20
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@Sourdough: I had no specific expectations, thus the question.

There is a range of vehicles that can safely tow a 29ft TT, and I was interested in which was the smallest among all qualified vehicles. I said nothing about a Smart car. I'm not looking for something that will fit in a micro-sized parking spot, but ideally something shorter than a full-sized pickup.
Case in point:
Quote:
Travel trailers of any size require a truck to tow them safely.
Lots of people will immediately jump to the "best" TV, but my criteria are somewhat different.

Based on the candidates, I'll have to determine whether it's realistic to own and live with such a vehicle in a densely populated city.

I'm coming to the realization that there isn't really a vehicle that I can use to safely tow that model of TT and live with on a day-to-day basis. Therefore, I will move on to a smaller and lighter option.

Thanks again for everyone's advice.
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