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Old 09-11-2016, 06:32 PM   #1
Bolo4u
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Similar setups

As I posted earlier, we are taking delivery of a 2016 Cougar 333MKS. This will be our first 5er, and an upgrade from a 2012 Trail-Sport 27' bunkhouse TT.

Current TV is a 2015 Ram 2500 CTD/auto, CC, 4x4, SB, with factory 5th wheel pucks, integrated brake controller, factory engine brake. I weighed it at a local scale last week and with full fuel and just me (no other cargo or passengers) I was at 5020 front axle 3200 rear, total 8220. Passengers would add another 250-300 range total.

The hitch the dealer sold me (based on their experience with outfitting the Ram trucks) is a Demco 18k autoslider (according to them it has a lower profile than the Pullrite). Based on my research, I'm guessing the hitch and Demco picture frame adapter will be another ~300 pounds, putting my rear axle at 3600-3700 (with passengers, fuel, hitch dispersed through the truck) and my axle is rated for 6500.

The 5er is ~12350 (20% pin weight 2470) With my axle rating at 6500 - 3550 leaves ~2800 axle weight. So assuming I load the trailer to the full GVWR (this likely wont happen) I have ~400 pounds wiggle room. I'm going to weigh it at a scale when I pick it up, yes I know it will be dry, but it will give me a good ballpark of my weights. I spent several weeks researching weight limits and other factors and while I feel fairly comfortable with the current setup I know its not ideal. We will likely upgrade the TV in the next two-three years.

I'm not looking to start another debate, nor seek anyone's blessing or scorn, but rather just looking for real life experiences from those with similar setups. How did the setup tow, what things should I be aware of, other issues you may have encountered. I know these are generic newbie questions, but any info from those who have experience will certainly help.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:29 PM   #2
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I had a similar setup a few years back. 2011 Duramax 2500 with a 35' 5er weighing in at 11,800. I was a nice setup and the weights worked well with a 3/4 ton truck. Yes you are at the upper end of a 2500 capability, but you should be fine. The integrated brake controller and exhaust brake will work well to keep everything in check behind you if your towing flat or on the steepest mountain pass. Don't be surprised if your pin weight is heavier than your thinking. Probably closer to your max payload. The one thing I would make sure is that you have a kingpin such as a Trailair or Mor-Ryde. I had a lot of chucking without one, especially on concrete highways. Based on other discussions, other with similar weights experienced the same thing.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:32 PM   #3
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Similar ~~ My Cougar weighs almost 2K less and was over payload on an F250 diesel 4X4 but all other numbers were fine. Traded to an F350'

Very similar ~~ A friend bought the same trailer as you have. He added a 2nd battery, front AC, and a W/D combo. He travels extensively and packs heavy, including generator and more. His pin is over 3K on the CAT. He has a 2016 Chevy diesel. He took it to a spring shop and had the rear springs rebuilt heavier and is over payload. Now he says it tows fine.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith0404 View Post
I had a similar setup a few years back. 2011 Duramax 2500 with a 35' 5er weighing in at 11,800. I was a nice setup and the weights worked well with a 3/4 ton truck. Yes you are at the upper end of a 2500 capability, but you should be fine. The integrated brake controller and exhaust brake will work well to keep everything in check behind you if your towing flat or on the steepest mountain pass. Don't be surprised if your pin weight is heavier than your thinking. Probably closer to your max payload. The one thing I would make sure is that you have a kingpin such as a Trailair or Mor-Ryde. I had a lot of chucking without one, especially on concrete highways. Based on other discussions, other with similar weights experienced the same thing.
Thank you for the input and info. From my reading about the Demco hitch i'm getting, the manufacturer claims the dual pivot head (front to back, side to side) and polyurethane bushings) help reduce the chucking. We are planning a trip from Northern California toward southern California early next year, and will be towing. I doubt Ill get a different hitch installed by then, but I may want to after...
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:47 PM   #5
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Im aware Ill be over rated payload... but my goal is to remain under the axle/tire ratings. So far I'm approaching the upper limits but staying under. Ill know ore later this week when I weigh at a cat scale.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptnJohn View Post
Similar ~~ My Cougar weighs almost 2K less and was over payload on an F250 diesel 4X4 but all other numbers were fine. Traded to an F350'

Very similar ~~ A friend bought the same trailer as you have. He added a 2nd battery, front AC, and a W/D combo. He travels extensively and packs heavy, including generator and more. His pin is over 3K on the CAT. He has a 2016 Chevy diesel. He took it to a spring shop and had the rear springs rebuilt heavier and is over payload. Now he says it tows fine.
I dont want to go to the extent of altering the suspension, and we dont plan on adding the second AC nor a washer dryer, for now.. Maybe in a couple of years when I get into a 3500, but for now, we just want to ease into the lifestyle.
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Old 09-12-2016, 01:55 PM   #7
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Well using your own numbers you are not just a little over payload rating, you are way over, probably 1500 if you consider 500lbs of passengers to the stats you threw out. That would be about the same numbers (that you have above) as when I load up my 336bhs. I rolled the scales and based on most recent trip only had about 700lbs of payload left(12,300 sticker- 11,600 on the truck). My pin was about 2200lbs. Had the whole family in the truck, about 900 lbs worth of people. These things are heavy!.
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Old 09-12-2016, 02:52 PM   #8
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Your pin weight going to be higher than what you think because the basement and most of the storage is forward of the axles so you will gain about 3% to over that 20% rate. Towing guide estimates 2623 pin at 11815 GVW.

http://towingplanner.com/Estimators/...5&lw=11815&a=3
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Old 09-12-2016, 02:55 PM   #9
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I think you have a pretty good estimation of things. You'll likely be a little over gross on the truck as a whole, but within rear axle specs.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:33 PM   #10
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I don't have the same hitch but have a2010 2500 CTD ram and an 11500 lb 5er. Pulls awesome. Set the cruise and you could forget its back there. Make sure the pin height makes the trailer level. That is time we'll spent in set up.
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Old 09-12-2016, 05:33 PM   #11
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I have the 336. Basically same weight. And tow with a 2500 Chevy duramax. Doing all the math I figured I had about -5 lbs payload to spare. But axles, tires etc ok. It tows great with no issues. Exhaust brake, and diesel help tons. I have a regular fixed Reese 16k, on a crew cab short bed. Never had an issue and can't really see having one. Ideally I would have a 3500 duel wheel long bed but I didn't think I need that in 13' when I bought the truck and I'm not running out to spend another 60k. Also I wouldn't want to park one of those on the occasion I take it to town. You'll be fine.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:30 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by nellie1289 View Post
Well using your own numbers you are not just a little over payload rating, you are way over, probably 1500 if you consider 500lbs of passengers to the stats you threw out. That would be about the same numbers (that you have above) as when I load up my 336bhs. I rolled the scales and based on most recent trip only had about 700lbs of payload left(12,300 sticker- 11,600 on the truck). My pin was about 2200lbs. Had the whole family in the truck, about 900 lbs worth of people. These things are heavy!.
Way over is correct. Keystone published dry weight of my 5er is 1705. Just my wife and I loaded and ready to go the pin is around 2300. No longer in payload with a 3/4 ton diesel when the truck is loaded plus hitch. BTW, the 2016 F250 did not sag. All other numbers were well within spec.
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:44 PM   #13
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I'm surprised by the numbers you all are reporting for the 250/2500s. My 2011 crew cab Duramax LT 4x4 weighed in with my wife and I, hitch, and a full tank of fuel right around 7,400 (don't remember exact numbers, it's been a few years and I'm getting old). That left me with 2,600 lbs of payload available. That left me to believe that most 3/4 ton configurations would be good for a 5er in the 10-11k range, but that would be about maxing it. When I was hooked up to my 11,800 lb 5er fully loaded for a camping trip, I was about 250 lbs over weight, at least until I burned off the fuel. The return trips were even lighter after drinking most of the beverages, eating most of the food, and burning off some propane.
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by nellie1289 View Post
Well using your own numbers you are not just a little over payload rating, you are way over, probably 1500 if you consider 500lbs of passengers to the stats you threw out. That would be about the same numbers (that you have above) as when I load up my 336bhs. I rolled the scales and based on most recent trip only had about 700lbs of payload left(12,300 sticker- 11,600 on the truck). My pin was about 2200lbs. Had the whole family in the truck, about 900 lbs worth of people. These things are heavy!.


I did figure in passengers. It's just myself, wife and 6 year old. I had already weighed the truck with me and full fuel/fluids. I rounded up the scale weight to account for passengers and hitch. I know I'll be over rated payload. I'm looking to stay with the axle specs of 6500. If I can keep the pin at about 2500 I should stay under axle rate.


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Old 09-12-2016, 08:10 PM   #15
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Thank you everyone for the replies. I'm picking it up Thursday and will hit the scales on the way home. Yes it will be dry/empty but it will give me a starting point.


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Old 09-15-2016, 08:54 PM   #16
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Update

Well, today I picked up our 2016 333MKS from the dealer. On the way down I weighed my truck at a CAT scales; full fluids and two passengers (myself and my dad), no hitch, no trailer.

Front 5140
Rear 3260
Total 8400

About a week prior, I had weighed my truck at a different (non-CAT) scale and with full fluids, and just myself (no hitch) my weight was:

Front 5020
Rear 3200
Total 8220

A difference of about 180 pounds (my passenger on the second weight)

We spent about 3 hours at the dealer, did the walk through, found a couple minor issues, waited for them to install the hitch, hooked up, took a test drive, signed a few pieces of paper and left. The truck (stock rear suspension) only dropped a couple of inches with the trailer connected and off jacks.

This is my first 5er, and while I was apprehensive due to my concerns of weights and such, the tow home was relatively uneventful. I didn't feel any chucking or anything to cause me concern. I stopped at the same CAT scales (as earlier in the AM) to get my weights with the trailer.

I topped off the diesel (but not DEF) and still had a passenger. with the trailer (dry, except the dealer installed two batteries, and filled both the 7 gallon LPG tanks.) and hitch, these were my weights.

Front 5180
Rear 5540
Trailer 8720
Total 19440

Used on my math, the hitch and pin added ~2280. Figuring the hitch setup is about 300, puts my dry hitch in the 1980 range. That puts the trailer about 10740.

I increased my integrated trailer brake gain and used the factory engine brake.

All-in-all, it felt steady, didn't feel like the truck was struggling or lugging and stopping and handling felt comfortable. Granted this was only about a 90 mile trip, but gave me a good start.

However... I had to trim several trees along my driveway to allow for clearance.

I set it up on my driveway and opened everything up, opened the windows to air it out and show some family. During this time idiscovered the worker bees at the dealer FORGOT TO PUT THE SHORE POWER CORD back in the unit, so I have NO WAY to power the unit for several days.

I called the dealer and they had the cord and will be shipping it to me. Fortunately I won't need it for a about a week. Needless to say, had I been taking it camping and arrived at dusk and discovered I was without power...
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Old 09-15-2016, 10:03 PM   #17
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Already time for your first amazon purchase sir. highly recommend one of these, easy for not having to lug out your huge cord, also slick for a generator. Or add a 30/15 amp reducer and you are plugged into 110 super quick.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-55582-P...R5DDSQDABHH964
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