Leaving Keystone for Jayco

Falcon67 · 01-30-2023, 01:24 PM

After having warranty issues with structure on our 2021 220RD Springdale, we have decided to trade it. When we first turned the warranty items in to Keystone via the servicing dealer, the claim was denied. After complaining - they decided to honor the warranty. So they did step up and cover the issues - after some phone calls and reading their warranty back to them. Built quality issues had been bugging us for a while and this was pretty much the final straw. Items such as leaking fresh tank outlet (plastic failed around nib), screw anchors for blinds and guide strings in sheetrock with no sheetrock anchors (repaired at the house, blinds falling off the wall while camping not cool), finding lots of sawdust and misc debris in the trailer after a pull and a few other things that skip my mind just now. The warranty issues were skin separation at the top of the side walls both left and right, plus roof separation, cracks in the sealer and such. Trailer purchased new Sept 2021, seemed a bit early for major problems. Servicing dealer had to strip both sides up to the roof to properly fix. I have not looked at the roof repair as we just got it back and its 18F outside - will post repair pics if it'll lighten up. Otherwise, we pick up the new Jaycon on Saturday weather permitting. Lots of ice here this week.

Roof - major stuff, not all the separated seams.

Skin separation - left side, right side same except awning was keeping the skin pinned to the frame. It appeared there were no staples or anything else holding this area to the internal wall frame.

**chuckster57** · 01-30-2023, 03:03 PM

I can understand, you’re welcome to stick around since pretty much all RVs use the same appliances and have common issues.

NH_Bulldog · 01-30-2023, 03:21 PM

Interesting since I had the exact opposite experience, except it was with Jayco, and that drove me to Keystone.

I hope it works out for you, but don’t be bitter; I have learned that every brand has it’s ups and downs. These are all built by the same people in the same area using the same materials and appliances. Also, both Jayco and Keystone have the same parent company; Thor Industries. Really whether you have a bad experience comes down to the law of averages and luck of the draw. I am not saying it is acceptable in any way.

However, switching brands under the same umbrella is like taking money out of your left pocket and putting it in your right pocket…..six of one half a dozen of the other, they feel no pain. Moving to a Grand Design or a different manufacturer would have been more of a statement.

Balvar24 · 01-30-2023, 03:21 PM

That sealant looks pretty rough for a 2021 model. Does everyone else's look like that?

wiredgeorge · 01-30-2023, 03:44 PM

Let's see.... Thor owns Keystone RV. Thor owns Jayco. Thor owns most of the larger volume brands except Forest River. Jumping to a Jayco may not yield the results you hope for. Good luck.

BTW: Was the roof sealant ever touched up or serviced? On a 2 year old trailer, that should have happened several times.

wegone · 01-30-2023, 03:52 PM

Sounds pretty much like my story except it was the axles.....

And I could never get that out of my mind after having been pulled over by passing motorist to warn me that my trailer had some serious issues as they followed behind me.

It was finally fixed but lost months awaiting the fix after fighting with CW, the adjusters, Keystone, etc.

Still had over 1k of out-of-pocket expenses because of their mistake.

But eventually it turned out to be a good thing because we bought a trailer that fit our needs better, and the nagging and wondering if it was really fixed right, gone

BTW, the guys still here accept me into the group even tho my trailer is way better than theirs now

wiredgeorge · 01-30-2023, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

Sounds pretty much like my story except it was the axles.....

And I could never get that out of my mind after having been pulled over by passing motorist to warn me that my trailer had some serious issues as they followed behind me.

It was finally fixed but lost months awaiting the fix after fighting with CW, the adjusters, Keystone, etc.

Still had over 1k of out-of-pocket expenses because of their mistake.

But eventually it turned out to be a good thing because we bought a trailer that fit our needs better, and the nagging and wondering if it was really fixed right, gone

BTW, the guys still here accept me into the group even tho my trailer is way better than theirs now

Let's see... who owns Keystone RV? Thor... who owns Cruiser RV? Thor... yeah I bet all their high quality Amish craftsmen headed over to Cruiser RV and do the great work there while Keystone is left with the.... well leftovers?

Falcon67 · 01-30-2023, 04:49 PM

I'm aware of the corporate overlords. The 212 has obvious better build quality than the 220. And the dealer service stated plainly they have better luck with the Jayco trailers than Keystone and some others. I was told back channel that another Keystone owner is going through the same "claim denied, oh wait - maybe we will fix it" issues.

>BTW: Was the roof sealant ever touched up or serviced? On a 2 year old >trailer, that should have happened several times.

This seems odd to me. Yes, I have learned that for membrane roofs I'd better check the roof and sealant periodically. Our 2016 Continental Cargo has zero roof issues, no sealant cracks, etc. I'm not sure what that gray sealer up there is, but it's some tough stuff. The Dycor on the membrane roofs seems to be way less robust.
Something else I forgot - after all this time, and lots of "tricks" to get the OSB outgassing out of the Keystone - it still smells. My 960 sq/ft shop is fully OSB on the inside and never had that issue with the shop. It's bad enough that without air moving we get headaches at night.

I'm not sure the mfg date, but we bought the 220 9/21 and filed the warranty claim 11/22 - that's ain't a lot of time IMHO.

>I hope it works out for you, but don’t be bitter; I have learned that every >brand has it’s ups and downs.

This is certainly true. To be fair, the $65K 2022 F-350 had a couple of "build quality' issues from Ford. I work with high end network equipment and yep - plenty of build quality issues there too. I spent 20 years in manufacturing, a large part of that in QA/QC - things go wrong in spite of best efforts. It's how you respond to those issues that makes the difference.

I'm not planning to sign off - these goobers use a lot of the same parts and lessons learned can be shared to help others. That's the great thing about these forums.

Fun note - I just ordered two anode rods for the water heater in the 220, so now I have spares LOL. Looks like the same exact water heater was installed in the Jayco.

Also, the dealer made us a decent offer for the trade, basically leaving us dead even on the trade vs balance on the note. Not ideal, but better than some trades we've made. And their service is top notch, so it's not a bad thing all around.

I'll also bet the Jayco pulls easier - that 220 is like pulling a giant sheet of plywood down the road.

wegone · 01-30-2023, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Let's see... who owns Keystone RV? Thor... who owns Cruiser RV? Thor... yeah I bet all their high quality Amish craftsmen headed over to Cruiser RV and do the great work there while Keystone is left with the.... well leftovers?

Hahahaha.....you bet the wrong teams yesterday?

Like I said it gave me a good opportunity to find a better fit and address some concerns as well from what I had learned.
Block insulation for me was a plus, as a higher barrel roof, bigger frame, getting away from spread axles, Azdel panels and real tongue and grove plywood floors, not to mention a better floor plan for us, etc....

Now was it assembled better; we'll see. Only got two trips in last year because we bought it late in the year.
First trip is next month, and then every month until November, about 6k total milage I'm guessing.

Check back

Mikendebbie · 01-30-2023, 05:42 PM

We had a 2011 Jayco 27’ - a long time ago now…and corp ownership was different back then. But it was a nice solid stick and tin travel trailer. Everything just worked. I wanted to mount a small TV in the bedroom. Called factory service to ask what the stud spacing was - and they emailed me the framing “blueprints” for all four walls! Can you imagine that today? My 1996 Alpenlite 30’ fifth wheel had a wiring diagram in the owners manual! What a concept!

Enjoy your new Jayco and hang around here to give updates on your experience.

vampress_me · 01-30-2023, 05:55 PM

“ I'm not sure the mfg date, but we bought the 220 9/21 and filed the warranty claim 11/22 - that's ain't a lot of time IMHO.” I have to say, I’m impressed they actually did the work under warranty since it was over a year old when you filed the warranty claim. That in itself is not normal.

I do hope you have better luck with your Jayco. Enjoy your travels with it!

pawpaw · 01-30-2023, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Let's see.... Thor owns Keystone RV. Thor owns Jayco. Thor owns most of the larger volume brands except Forest River. Jumping to a Jayco may not yield the results you hope for. Good luck.

BTW: Was the roof sealant ever touched up or serviced? On a 2 year old trailer, that should have happened several times.

Grand Design was scooped up by Winnebago a few years ago.

Falcon67 · 01-30-2023, 06:43 PM

Oh, it'll get used quick. Our daughter/grandkids live in Albuquerque. The 220 has made several trips - 480 miles one way - and had a couple of multi day and a 2 week stay in the street in front of the house. Will be happy to share any comparisons. And for sure - we're both hoping we made the right call. We'll find out quick enough!

**sourdough** · 01-30-2023, 07:20 PM

Good luck and I hope you have good luck with the Jayco. Owned one and not again. Thought about it and spoke to the owner of the dealership - under very pointed questioning he owned up that Jayco had as many issues as any other brand - corroborated by other dealers. The kicker was the dealer (owner), the one I would use, said I should understand that they had a typical waiting period for repairs of 3 mo. I have a far better relationship with my Keystone dealer and wouldn't subject myself to that.

dutchmensport · 01-31-2023, 07:59 AM

Sorry to hear about your Springdale problems. We had a Springdale for 8 years and it was the completely trouble free the entire time. I guess they don't make them like they use to.

I hope you stick around on these forums. At least check in from time to time. You can always contribute your experiences. We all gain from each other you know.

I realized (just today), that I still have an active user ID and password on Outbackers.com forum. I joined that forum in 2013, right after we purchased our Keystone Outback (which was right after the Springdale). I had only 6 posts on that forum site in all these years as I primarily used a different forum and also the Keystone forum. Over time I abandoned the "other" one as too many were posting condescending and critical and demeaning posts. I left that one and picked up using Keystone and eventually the Montana forum. So, I snooped around the Outback forum for a while and found out, pretty much EVERYTHING that is addressed with issues on the Keystone and Montana forum are also the same issues on the Outback forum. It seems everyone is having issues .... especially with newer models of every brand.

BUT! In order to still keep YOU in the "family" (sort of say) ... don't forget that RV Life also sponsors the Jayco forum. You can log in there with the same user id and password you use here. I do occasionally go over to the Jayco forum and read, I've never signed in there through.

So.... meanwhile ... you can still keep it in the family: Click here. I think you'll need to register, but the user ID and password can stay the same.

And you might also check out the RV forum (also sponsored by RV Life). I do use that one a lot. Its more general, regarding everything RV, but it's got lots of activity there. Click here. Use your same User ID and password too. Register, and have fun.

wiredgeorge · 01-31-2023, 09:33 AM

RV manufacturers are a complicated web of ownership. This article does a good job detailing "who's on first"... (if you are old enough to get this reference, go out and check to see if your SSI check is in the mailbox)...

https://www.godownsize.com/which-rv-..._Does_Thor_Own

wegone · 01-31-2023, 11:55 AM

Remember, Thor does not make any RV's....period.
It is strictly a public traded investment company.
Nothing more.
Each make/brand is made up according to its own design. etc, not so much corporate.
However which brand returns the best investment, will get the most attention from Thor, and prolly more working capital.

Think of it as a major league baseball team.
They want to win the pennant as a team, but each player has his own contract, and his own vested interest in being the best player on that team.

Now of course you have rowdy fans who don't even care about the game, score, they just go to drink beer....
But we'll save that post for another day

wiredgeorge · 01-31-2023, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Eddie

Remember, Thor does not make any RV's....period.
It is strictly a public traded investment company.

HAH! Check this out; decal on my old Cougar...

wegone · 02-01-2023, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

HAH! Check this out; decal on my old Cougar...

Oh wow, that is like real genuine Corinthian Leather I bet

travelin texans · 02-01-2023, 08:05 AM

Thor makes several brands of motorhomes.
Also the 5th wheel listed in my signature had large letters on both sides & the rear "Redwood by Thor", at the time it was under the Crossroads umbrella then Keystone but neither of those names were on the 5er anywhere.
As far as any of the rv manufacturers I seriously doubt there's a nickels worth of difference in the quality for any of them. They're all built in the same area by the same folks that just roam from manufacturer to manufacturer whomever is offering the most that week. There's no brand loyalty by the employees.
Anyone that believes that they are "Amish built" needs to tour a couple factories, yes there are Amish working at most all of them but they're just assembly line workers like everyone else there, they build the required daily quoted then go home, the faster the quota is met the earlier they go home.

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