Battery not charging - Page 2

Anastasia Beaverhausen · 12-07-2022, 10:13 AM

Thanks for all the info, especially on the EMS. I will for sure be getting one of those.

Now, back to my issue. So I was able to get the converter. It was behind the fuse panel and screwed to the floor. Not the easiest thing to get to. Anyway, I checked both fuses and they are fine. Also, found a fuse in the battery shut off box and it is ok.

Could the converter have blown without blowing the fuses? I'm not sure what else to check. Everything is all hooked back up with out my portable battery charger being connected. I am assuming (I know, stupid to do) that the fan on the converter would run when it is charging the battery. Well, the fan is not running...

wiredgeorge · 12-07-2022, 11:05 AM

The fan will run when the converter heats up and there is some sort of circuit that monitors temperature (at least that is the way mine works and I have a different brand since my camper is 900 years old). I doubt the fan running/not running is a good way to test the converter. This subject has been gone through ad nauseum on this forum so you can do a search OR someone with more expertise will come along and point out the steps. I think it involves disconnecting the battery while on shore power and testing the battery leads with them disconnected from the battery. That is what I would do. The DC voltage headed to the battery must be over the 12VDC voltage the batteries are about (they will have more outgoing voltage than that when everything is working properly). The voltage going in in excess of 12VDC is what keeps the battery(s) charged. If you don't have the 13PLUS VDC the batteries won't charge. This can be attributed to wiring issues but in your case most likely a fried converter.

Hope someone with more expertise than I comes along to clarify, if needed.

**JRTJH** · 12-07-2022, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anastasia Beaverhausen

Thanks for all the info, especially on the EMS. I will for sure be getting one of those.

Now, back to my issue. So I was able to get the converter. It was behind the fuse panel and screwed to the floor. Not the easiest thing to get to. Anyway, I checked both fuses and they are fine. Also, found a fuse in the battery shut off box and it is ok.

Could the converter have blown without blowing the fuses? I'm not sure what else to check. Everything is all hooked back up with out my portable battery charger being connected. I am assuming (I know, stupid to do) that the fan on the converter would run when it is charging the battery. Well, the fan is not running...

Yes the converter could have blown without blowing the fuses. You will need to properly troubleshoot the converter to verify its condition.

As for what else to check, your WFCO converter troubleshooting steps are in the WFCO Owner's Manual. Essentially, the primary troubleshooting verification is to "completely disconnect the battery and measure the voltage "AT THE BATTERY CABLE CONNECTORS" (not on the battery, but the connectors on the cables WHEN DISCONNECTED FROM THE BATTERY). That voltage should be 13.6 VDC. If it is higher or lower than that, the converter is probably not working properly. REMEMBER, you can't properly test the voltage output if the battery is connected to the cable terminals, so you MUST disconnect the battery to test the converter.

The fan on the converter is "output wattage controlled" so it may or may not be running, depending on the amount of DC power output that the trailer is drawing from the converter. As a "general rule" about 4 or 5 amps of power (around 48-60 watts of DC demand) will start the fan on low speed and it will turn faster as the power demand increases. So, in your situation, the fan may not be running if you don't have a large DC demand AND your external battery charger has kept your trailer battery adequately charged, so that the WFCO converter is not being tasked with recharging the battery.

If you can't locate your WFCO owner's manual, you can find the owner's manual on the WFCO website for download by model number. The troubleshooting steps are in the PDF file for your model converter at this link: https://wfcoelectronics.com/product-...-6390e44238def

Anastasia Beaverhausen · 12-07-2022, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

If you can't locate your WFCO owner's manual, you can find the owner's manual on the WFCO website for download by model number. The troubleshooting steps are in the PDF file for your model converter at this link: https://wfcoelectronics.com/product-...-6390e44238def

So, in this pic I'm confused about the highlighted area. If I disconnect my battery, none of the lights work. Are they supposed to? Or am I reading this wrong?

**sourdough** · 12-07-2022, 03:45 PM

Where are you in the troubleshooting procedure?

If you disconnect your battery and aren't plugged into shore power your lights will not work. If you then connect to shore power with the battery disconnected your lights should work from the converter. So in answer to your question, no, your lights will not work if the battery is disconnected and you have no shore power as the flow chart to that point indicates.

You need to check the output of that converter with a meter and the battery disconnected as John described above to see where you are.

jasin1 · 12-07-2022, 04:59 PM

In your first post you said he hooked it up to 240 volts and then he had to “ redo” it…did he change the receptacle? is it wired correctly?….. For sure?

also how exactly did you test the fuses ?

**JRTJH** · 12-07-2022, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anastasia Beaverhausen

So, in this pic I'm confused about the highlighted area. If I disconnect my battery, none of the lights work. Are they supposed to? Or am I reading this wrong?

IF you have disconnected the battery AND the trailer is plugged into the correct voltage shore power, the 12 volt lights in the trailer should work.

Using your logic tree troubleshooting diagram, at the yellow highlighted box, if you answer NO (lights do not work), then the next step is to remove the reverse polarity fuses and check them with an ohmmeter. if they are good, the answer would be NO, and you'd move to the next block, "check the output voltage on the fuse block lug terminals." If it is not 13.6VDC, the converter is bad and needs to be replaced. If the voltage is 13.6VDC and the lights work properly, check the battery. If the lights do not work, check the trailer wiring for a loose/damaged/broken negative cable or ground.

My guess is, IF (and that's a big IF) you actually did plug the trailer shore power cord into a 220 volt outlet using an adapter to connect the 50 amp plug to a 30 amp power source receptacle, you probably "burned up one leg of your incoming power inside the power center". IF (another big IF) the converter was on that leg or on that side of the main circuit breaker, then the converter, along with everything else on that side of the circuit breaker panel is damaged. It's likely that all the appliances and outlets that are wired to the "other leg that was not connected to 220 volts is not damaged. All of those things would be wired to the circuit breakers on the opposite side of the main breaker.

Looking at your circuit breaker panel, determine if the REC/CON circuit breaker is on the left or right side. Then start verifying whether the other items marked on that same side are working. My guess is that most of them will likely be damaged. Remember that an outlet that had nothing plugged into it would probably have survived the damaging voltage, but things like air conditioners, TV's, heater circuits (water heater electric element, etc) may not have made it though the event.

Anastasia Beaverhausen · 12-07-2022, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasin1

In your first post you said he hooked it up to 240 volts and then he had to “ redo” it…did he change the receptacle? is it wired correctly?….. For sure?

also how exactly did you test the fuses ?

All I know is he fixed it. He didn't say anything about changing the receptacle. As to if it is wired right, I'm not sure. I have not checked it out but am going to have to.

I didn't test the fuses. I just pulled them out to make sure they were not blown.

Anastasia Beaverhausen · 12-07-2022, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTJH

IF you have disconnected the battery AND the trailer is plugged into the correct voltage shore power, the 12 volt lights in the trailer should work.

Using your logic tree troubleshooting diagram, at the yellow highlighted box, if you answer NO (lights do not work), then the next step is to remove the reverse polarity fuses and check them with an ohmmeter. if they are good, the answer would be NO, and you'd move to the next block, "check the output voltage on the fuse block lug terminals." If it is not 13.6VDC, the converter is bad and needs to be replaced. If the voltage is 13.6VDC and the lights work properly, check the battery. If the lights do not work, check the trailer wiring for a loose/damaged/broken negative cable or ground.

My guess is, IF (and that's a big IF) you actually did plug the trailer shore power cord into a 220 volt outlet using an adapter to connect the 50 amp plug to a 30 amp power source receptacle, you probably "burned up one leg of your incoming power inside the power center". IF (another big IF) the converter was on that leg or on that side of the main circuit breaker, then the converter, along with everything else on that side of the circuit breaker panel is damaged. It's likely that all the appliances and outlets that are wired to the "other leg that was not connected to 220 volts is not damaged. All of those things would be wired to the circuit breakers on the opposite side of the main breaker.

Looking at your circuit breaker panel, determine if the REC/CON circuit breaker is on the left or right side. Then start verifying whether the other items marked on that same side are working. My guess is that most of them will likely be damaged. Remember that an outlet that had nothing plugged into it would probably have survived the damaging voltage, but things like air conditioners, TV's, heater circuits (water heater electric element, etc) may not have made it though the event.

Everything in the camper works as it should, except the converter-charger. If I unhook the battery with it plugged into the 30amp outlet only the outlets work in my camper. None of the lights or blower work at all. This evening I started smelling that nasty hot wire smell so I unplugged the converter from the back of the fuse panel. I currently have a portable battery charger hooked up to the battery and everything is working fine. I am going to see about getting a new converter-charger tomorrow.

**JRTJH** · 12-07-2022, 07:00 PM

If you unplugged the converter/charger and the smell dissipated, I'd also suspect the converter/charger was damaged. I'd be very cautious about just "removing/replacing the converter/charger" and plugging it in. The "burned wire stench" that you smelled may have come from parts or wiring other than the converter/charger, like the ROMEX that powers the outlet where the converter/charger plugs in. If there's damage to the wires or to the circuit breaker, you may wind up "burning up the new one" as soon as you plug it in.

So, I'd also carefully inspect the back of the circuit breaker panel, the ROMEX wiring going to the outlet where the converter/charger is plugged in and that outlet to make sure everything in the circuit is undamaged before plugging in an expensive converter/charger for its first "smoke test".....

**flybouy** · 12-07-2022, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anastasia Beaverhausen

Not to sound stupid, but what breaker are you referring to?

The breaker in the panel inside your camper. Often labeled as "conv" or "con" . Just turn them all off then back on to make certain that you get it. Don't be afraid to use some force as they can be stiff.

**sourdough** · 12-07-2022, 07:53 PM

At the moment from what I can ascertain you came to FL and a family member was going to wire you a 30A RV plug...instead he wired a 220v plug. After it fried the RV he then "re-wired" it and from what I've read we still don't know if it is correct or not. Until that is determined you may just keep "blowing/burning" things up. Here's a link;

https://www.rvtravel.com/wp-content/..._Outlets-1.jpg

The one on the left is the way it should be wired, the one on the right is probably the way he wired it. Note that the 240V wiring sends 120vac right in on the neutral which is a return path and can do significant damage to all kinds of things (120vac service items are not wired for voltage coming in there)....some found right away and some later.

In this case you need to start troubleshooting from the source (incoming voltage/plug) and work your way back. To start at the far end can result in a lot of wasted time and damaged equipment.

Anastasia Beaverhausen · 12-08-2022, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

At the moment from what I can ascertain you came to FL and a family member was going to wire you a 30A RV plug...instead he wired a 220v plug. After it fried the RV he then "re-wired" it and from what I've read we still don't know if it is correct or not. Until that is determined you may just keep "blowing/burning" things up. Here's a link;

https://www.rvtravel.com/wp-content/..._Outlets-1.jpg

The one on the left is the way it should be wired, the one on the right is probably the way he wired it. Note that the 240V wiring sends 120vac right in on the neutral which is a return path and can do significant damage to all kinds of things (120vac service items are not wired for voltage coming in there)....some found right away and some later.

It's got the right outlet, otherwise my camper wouldn't even have plugged in. I'd like to know what it's supposed to look like at the main power box on the house.

wiredgeorge · 12-08-2022, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anastasia Beaverhausen

It's got the right outlet, otherwise my camper wouldn't even have plugged in. I'd like to know what it's supposed to look like at the main power box on the house.

Depends on how far the electric run is as to which gauge wire. Both my 30A RV outlets are hung on the poles they connect to (two different meter loops/poles). I used 8 gauge copper wire; run was about 2 ft. If you run longer you need heavier wire; perhaps 6 gauge although I am not an electrician. Next thing is the wire which will have a white lead (neutral) and a black (positive) and a ground wire. The white should be connected to the supply panel neutral buss strip and the black to a 30A circuit breaker and the ground to the ground buss. If 8/3 is used, the red wire should be capped with a wire nut.

Anastasia Beaverhausen · 12-08-2022, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

Depends on how far the electric run is as to which gauge wire. Both my 30A RV outlets are hung on the poles they connect to (two different meter loops/poles). I used 8 gauge copper wire; run was about 2 ft. If you run longer you need heavier wire; perhaps 6 gauge although I am not an electrician. Next thing is the wire which will have a white lead (neutral) and a black (positive) and a ground wire. The white should be connected to the supply panel neutral buss strip and the black to a 30A circuit breaker and the ground to the ground buss. If 8/3 is used, the red wire should be capped with a wire nut.

Ok, thanks. Gonna check it out.

jasin1 · 12-08-2022, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anastasia Beaverhausen

It's got the right outlet, otherwise my camper wouldn't even have plugged in. I'd like to know what it's supposed to look like at the main power box on the house.

at this point unless you are really experienced with working with electrical circuits i think it would be wise to hire a rv mobile service tech or an electrician or both.

You need to have a multimeter to test the circuits and troubleshoot AND the knowledge to interpret what your seeing.
It is good that you have the enthusiasm to figure it out yourself but you may be in over your head.
and just because things can be accessed and disassembled with a screwdriver does not mean that you should attempt to figure it out for yourself

Plumbing? …yeah full steam ahead ..the worst that can happen is water damage
Electrical? …you or someone else could end up electrocuted

**sourdough** · 12-08-2022, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anastasia Beaverhausen

It's got the right outlet, otherwise my camper wouldn't even have plugged in. I'd like to know what it's supposed to look like at the main power box on the house.

Having the right "outlet" which you apparently do, has nothing to do with how the backside of it is wired....and is how you introduced 240vac through what should have been a 120vac outlet. The attached diagrams were to show you what "should" be on each one of those legs, at each prong on the right receptacle. The one on the right, such as would be used for a dryer, is how yours was wired I figure - no matter what kind of outlet. A meter is the only way to know what's what. As was mentioned it would probably be best to get someone knowledgeable about electricity, RVs and meters to check this out. Not only can some of the damage be hard to assess, doing so and not knowing what you're doing can be deadly. Wishing you luck on getting it corrected.

Anastasia Beaverhausen · 12-08-2022, 05:53 PM

This is what the guy bought to make the hookup for me.

**flybouy** · 12-09-2022, 10:24 AM

That is the wrong breaker for a 30 Amp RV outlet and the wrong breaker and wire for a 50 Amp outlet. I would again advise you to hire a qualified, licensed electrician. I was adjunct faculty at a local college and instructed several electrical classes and labs. IMHO someone that " doesn't know anything about electricity" should avoid learning about it using the self taught method.

wiredgeorge · 12-09-2022, 03:17 PM

I think the lady is set up with a 30A outlet and uses a 50 to 30 amp adapter if I recall from previous posts. I still wonder how long the run is and I personally would have used a single 30A breaker. I suspect the source panel may not have had enough excess to add a 50A service but could be wrong about that. 8/2 is probably OK unless it is a real long feed (that is why I asked).

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