Attorney or news

Joshwyle · 12-27-2021, 06:30 PM

I bought a 21 fuzion 419 in july. It took me 3 months to get a fridge that worked. The bedroom slide leaked so i dropped off at dealer to get fixed, dealer fixes slide but wrecks camper puts hole in front with fork lift. Trim pieces damaged from fridge being pulled in and out. Rear awning doesnt work correctly.

Get camper fixed from damage from forklift and sofa gets stained due to dealer spilling some sort of oil on it. Dealership claims they didnt do it they also managed to turn my 1 pice of trim in front of sofa into 2 but claim they didnt touch that. Floor was damage from sliding fridge across without blanket. Then we notice the shower is leaking. Dealership sends mobile guy to fix shower. Now wall between shower has black mold and needs replacing.

When we noticed the shower was leaking i climb in basement (before mobile guy came out) and removed panel to see if it was the drain that was leaking and found a cut floor joist. They cut 6" out of the floor joist so the drain would fit directly under the shower. And the drain is nowhere close. I built houses for 20 years and floor joist are structual. Mobile tech also said it WAS strucual. So now im calling keystone in the next 2 days and if they do nothing then my next step will be 1 of the 2 attorney or news. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Ill try n post pics but i have to figure out how to shrink due to file being to big

Joshwyle · 12-27-2021, 06:38 PM

This is what i found. Thinking to just ask for full refund, or lemon law. Anyone ever run into this?

Joshwyle · 12-27-2021, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshwyle

I bought a 21 fuzion 419 in july. It took me 3 months to get a fridge that worked. The bedroom slide leaked so i dropped off at dealer to get fixed, dealer fixes slide but wrecks camper puts hole in front with fork lift. Trim pieces damaged from fridge being pulled in and out. Rear awning doesnt work correctly.

Get camper fixed from damage from forklift and sofa gets stained due to dealer spilling some sort of oil on it. Dealership claims they didnt do it they also managed to turn my 1 pice of trim in front of sofa into 2 but claim they didnt touch that. Floor was damage from sliding fridge across without blanket. Then we notice the shower is leaking. Dealership sends mobile guy to fix shower. Now wall between shower has black mold and needs replacing.

When we noticed the shower was leaking i climb in basement (before mobile guy came out) and removed panel to see if it was the drain that was leaking and found a cut floor joist. They cut 6" out of the floor joist so the drain would fit directly under the shower. And the drain is nowhere close. I built houses for 20 years and floor joist are structual. Mobile tech also said it WAS strucual. So now im calling keystone in the next 2 days and if they do nothing then my next step will be 1 of the 2 attorney or news. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Ill try n post pics but i have to figure out how to shrink due to file being to big

oh and the kitchen sink leaked. Probably more, its been that kinda experience

**sourdough** · 12-27-2021, 06:50 PM

Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear of your troubles.

Sounds like you have several problems; some dealer caused and some possibly from the manufacturer. Don't know the exact issues without pics but I can say that you NEED to be in the middle of the dealer. In my experience they DO cause damage if not watched closely. You need to be in the middle of them and hold them accountable.

As far as a structural floor joist being cut for a drain I've never seen or experienced that nor heard of it - a pic would help. That seems to be the only manufacturer claim you might have.

As far as a lawyer, think of the above; you will have to file 2 suits, one against the dealer and one against Keystone. Sounds like you may have grounds with the dealer but can't figure why you haven't gone to the mat with them. With Keystone....they have an entire legal dept. waiting for you. You might want to definitively determine there is a structural problem with your trailer that can be proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, in court. If not I figure you will be out the cost of the trailer and enough again in lawyer fees to buy it again.

You can accomplish a lot by knowing what you are doing and how to approach a situation; throwing out "lawyer" will immediately put you "in the box" and any hoped for resolution will be gone unless you want to spend many thousands.

Joshwyle · 12-27-2021, 07:18 PM

Pics are posted. Did they not show up. They are on my side showing

Joshwyle · 12-27-2021, 07:20 PM

Pics in 2nd post

Joshwyle · 12-27-2021, 07:35 PM

Also i hv had meeting with gm and best i got was him sending mobile guy out to fix my problems from now on due to his guys screwing everything up. Thats why im debating news. Almost think i would get more accomplished going to news. If nothing else people would know what they could be walking in to. Also did u know that even if a dealer knows there is a problem, the manufacturer will not warranty or fix anything until it is owned by consumer. Therefore if ur slide leaks and u dont notice until after a year due to u not planning a trip in the rain then cost is on u

**chuckster57** · 12-27-2021, 07:46 PM

I can see the pics. I can totally understand your frustration, but I can assure you starting with Lawyer will only cause you much more frustration.

I would start with Keystone directly and ask if there is a different dealer you can use. Have you taken lots of pics? If so save them and send a copy to keystone. You may very well have an uphill battle, but I can assure as someone that worked at dealerships for a long time, demanding, and threatening in any way will only make them dig in their heels. BTDT with a customer that didn’t even buy his unit at the dealership I worked at, parking out front for 2 days with signs and such. He got nowhere and we refused to work on his unit.

**sourdough** · 12-27-2021, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshwyle

Also i hv had meeting with gm and best i got was him sending mobile guy out to fix my problems from now on due to his guys screwing everything up. Thats why im debating news. Almost think i would get more accomplished going to news. If nothing else people would know what they could be walking in to. Also did u know that even if a dealer knows there is a problem, the manufacturer will not warranty or fix anything until it is owned by consumer. Therefore if ur slide leaks and u dont notice until after a year due to u not planning a trip in the rain then cost is on u

I'm not sure what avenues you have for "news" but an RV with issues is not news. In your case the problem is compounded by the fact that the most serious issues, as it sounds, were caused by the dealer and not the manufacturer - pretty much convoluted. I doubt that a serious news outlet would find that newsworthy.

As in most cases with an RV you need to figure out what is going on, where the issue(s) came from and then address that with the responsible party. Don't be mislead; the resolution does not always leave the owner happy.

Joshwyle · 12-27-2021, 08:09 PM

Ive talked to dealer and i know once i mention attorney they will not talk to me anymore due to cooperate telling them to be quiet. But im at my end and thats why im thinking news but havent talk to manufacturer yet and will always give source opportunity to make it right but like u said its not hard to get my frustration

**chuckster57** · 12-27-2021, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshwyle

Also did u know that even if a dealer knows there is a problem, the manufacturer will not warranty or fix anything until it is owned by consumer. Therefore if ur slide leaks and u dont notice until after a year due to u not planning a trip in the rain then cost is on u

Im sorry but that is simply FALSE.

That’s is what a PDI ( pre delivery inspection) is for. As a rule the cost is included the sales price and the factory DOES pay for issues found prior to the buyer taking possession.

How in depth the dealership does this, I will say is across the spectrum, I even know a dealership that doesn’t do much of a PDI and won’t do warranty work on what they sell.

Joshwyle · 12-27-2021, 08:19 PM

Well ive heard that from 2 different dealers and 2 different mobile techs. So not saying ur wrong but thats my sources

**chuckster57** · 12-27-2021, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshwyle

Well ive heard that from 2 different dealers and 2 different mobile techs. So not saying ur wrong but thats my sources

I have worked at 4 dealerships, and every one of them did PDI’s and addressed issues prior to delivery and got paid.

Mobile techs will tell you that, because most dealerships don’t want to mess with the paperwork and get low labor rates. I worked with a mobile tech, but I’m not going to argue the point. I do know how the process works, and I do know not everybody adheres to it.

**sourdough** · 12-27-2021, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshwyle

Also i hv had meeting with gm and best i got was him sending mobile guy out to fix my problems from now on due to his guys screwing everything up. Thats why im debating news. Almost think i would get more accomplished going to news. If nothing else people would know what they could be walking in to. Also did u know that even if a dealer knows there is a problem, the manufacturer will not warranty or fix anything until it is owned by consumer. Therefore if ur slide leaks and u dont notice until after a year due to u not planning a trip in the rain then cost is on u

Don't know who told you the above but whoever they are don't know what they are talking about. I buy only new RVs; all of them have a pre delivery inspection done by the dealer to address any issues found on a new trailer PRIOR to sale....all of them I've dealt with. That cost is paid for by the manufacturer and how well the inspection is done is totally on the dealer...some are great, some suck. I always ask for the pink sheet that the dealer has that details all issues found and what was done to fix them. My dealer does that and all should be. If yours doesn't do it and you bought from them without one that's on them and you.

notanlines · 12-28-2021, 05:18 AM

Josh, I have a very good friend, long time RV salesman, and he backs what Danny and Chuckster told you. He laughed when I told him what you said. His comment after he laughed was "Almost every large RV has a warranty repair of something after their PDI."
I simply have no advice for you other than what has been said concerning an attorney. If you are suing the local dealer you might get some action, but Keystone has an entire team waiting for your attorney to call. And they can use the practice.

CedarCreekWoody · 12-28-2021, 06:24 AM

Don't count on being the lead item on the six o'clock news, or even on it at all. Where the news might help you is if they have a consumer complaint division. Some TV and newspaper outlets offer this service and they often carry more clout with the retailers.

wiredgeorge · 12-28-2021, 06:50 AM

You see ads on TVs for ambulance chasers for various class action... the one with the weed killer comes to mind as well as asbestos suits. Usually these are class action but there are actually law firms that specialize in RV related issues:

https://www.timothyabeel.com/problem...ltiple-models/

If you do decide to pursue this outside of the dealership/Keystone, wasting your time writing complaints on various forums (there are web sites for consumer complaints), suggest you consider the lemon laws in your state or perhaps pursue this using a legal firm that specializes.

The problem with legal action is that the warranty was written in such a way as to give an out to the dealer and manufacturer in many cases:

https://www.chicagobusinesslitigatio...epair-vehicle/

Joshwyle · 12-28-2021, 07:24 AM

10-4 thanks

**JRTJH** · 12-28-2021, 07:33 AM

If (when) you retain a lawyer to sue Keystone, that lawyer will get a "form letter" from Keystone stating that your case has been referred to the legal department at THOR (largest multiple manufacturer of RV's in the world) and instructing your attorney that all correspondence will need to go, not to Keystone but to the THOR legal department. Then a letter will go to your dealership stating that you have initiated legal action and instructing the dealer to cease all warranty repairs pending the outcome of the legal action.

Keystone will stop talking to you and refer all your letters, phone calls, emails and "personal visits" to the THOR legal department. If you "show up at the factory to get answers" you may wind up being escorted off the premises by law enforcement.... It may take 3 months for your attorney to reach a settlement or it may take 3 years for the case to get to adjudication/court. Your RV will "sit where it's at" until that result is reached....

You might want to actually "read the Owner's Manual" and the "Keystone Warranty Guide" which is not a part of the Owner's Manual, but can be downloaded at the Keystone RV website. Scroll down to the "OWNERS" section near the bottom and download the "Warranty Guide" and take a look at section 06, the part about warranty resolution. Consider using that alternative action (rather than a local attorney). It may get you better results and I'd guess it would be significantly cheaper than going to court.

As always, the final decision is yours, but legal action probably isn't your "best option" when you consider the "David and Goliath" consequences.

**flybouy** · 12-28-2021, 07:52 AM

"Legal action" typically costs a lot of money and makes lawyers rich. Not saying it can't be done but that threat is laughable to most large companies. Larger companies have a legal department ie. they have attorneys that are on payroll so the cost to deal with your attorney is minimal to you. Smaller companies (like dealerships) typically have a law firm On Retainer so while they aren't "in-house" they are still being paid as treated as if they are. They can afford to wait for years, document you to death (every legal document cost money in both legal fees and court costs), and if they wish can afford more postponements than you can imagine.

As John suggested, I'd also recommend the course of exhausting all of the options in the Keystone literature first. I would also call your state's Consumer Affairs Division or State's Attorney's Office and explain your situation and see if they will intervene. Good luck on your getting it rectified.

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