Keystone Quality?

[Camster]

We've had two Montanas in the last three years. The first was a 2018 3791RD and now we have a 2020 3741FK purchased last September. There have been a host of small and not so small issues with each. I could list them all but that's not my main concern. Both of the units have had a problem with the lower rear panels coming loose. The door side panel on the 3791 actually fell off as we were driving down I75 (pictures attached). We noticed after our last trip (just the third trip) that the ODS panel had come loose at the bottom and after a quick inspection found that the DS panel was loose too. I would think the odds of this happening to two different units would be somewhat high, given Keystone's "commitment" to quality.
My question is this. Has anyone else has similar issues with their Montana. When you pay well over $60,000 for something you'd hope it wouldn't fall apart on you. I'm posting this in the hope that if it's happening to others that Keystone might take notice and actually do their quality control at the factory and not use the owners. I know this isn't an official Keystone forum but I would hope they monitor it.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Camster

I know this isn't an official Keystone forum but I would hope they monitor it.

As far as anyone who's been on the forum for any length of time knows.... Keystone doesn't monitor or participate at all.

Also, while it's a pain for stuff to loosen and fall off... these things are being pulled down the bumpy roads at 65 mph... I know I expect to find screws loose or missing every time I go any distance at all.. Usually I try to fix them so it don't happen again.. but if the factory did all that and used nylock nuts and fender washers on everything the trailers would be like pickups... $100K for a starter.. 'side it gives us something to do besides watch old westerns on GRIT TV..

[Camster]

Originally Posted by Javi

As far as anyone who's been on the forum for any length of time knows.... Keystone doesn't monitor or participate at all.

Also, while it's a pain for stuff to loosen and fall off... these things are being pulled down the bumpy roads at 65 mph... I know I expect to find screws loose or missing every time I go any distance at all.. Usually I try to fix them so it don't happen again.. but if the factory did all that and used nylock nuts and fender washers on everything the trailers would be like pickups... $100K for a starter.. 'side it gives us something to do besides watch old westerns on GRIT TV..

I am well acquainted with fixing the problems. I am still mulling over the option of becoming a certified RV tech, I was a field engineer for many years. I just wanted to see how many people have run across this kind of issue. And FYI, the 2020 3741FK lists, from Keystone, for $102K.
I'm a scifi fan myself so it's watching Star Wars and Star Trek movies on my movie server setup.

[wiredgeorge]

My sis & BIL just bought a 2021 Gulfstream Conquest Class C motor coach. Of course, when picking it up they were in a hurry. Their dealer trotted out a tech who claimed to have gone over the vehicle with a fine tooth comb. They drove from East Tennessee to here in Texas straight and stopped only in Wally parking lots. Lost all their hub caps (fancy chrome type), had a CEL on much of the trip which had to do with some safety system their Ford based Class C has and after getting here have had water leaks where the city water fill is located, under the shower and under the kitchen sink. They also had the genny/shore power transfer switch die which I fixed myself. No power during that time. They paid more for this thing than any Keystone product and quality was mediocre at best. Should they have been more diligent during a pre-delivery inspection. Heck yeah, but like most folks figure if a dealer tech says all is peachy then what could go wrong? I have a 2002 Cougar and almost no quality issues from the initial build. Huh? Issues today are not usually panels flying off like you experienced but many are in the gee-gaw systems installed... in-command, auto level, and appliances that seem to be less than stellar quality which are likely made in China. I doubt quality and price have any correlation from what I have observed on this forum.

I would suggest if you are considering becoming an RV tech to go to some school for a certification and get some training from appliance makers so they will consider you acceptable to work on their stuff and be an independent tech. I shudder at the thought of working at a dealership. Mobile seems to be less an investment than having a brick and mortar shop even if you have to purchase a van, etc.

[Camster]

Originally Posted by wiredgeorge

My sis & BIL just bought a 2021 Gulfstream Conquest Class C motor coach. Of course, when picking it up they were in a hurry. Their dealer trotted out a tech who claimed to have gone over the vehicle with a fine tooth comb. They drove from East Tennessee to here in Texas straight and stopped only in Wally parking lots. Lost all their hub caps (fancy chrome type), had a CEL on much of the trip which had to do with some safety system their Ford based Class C has and after getting here have had water leaks where the city water fill is located, under the shower and under the kitchen sink. They also had the genny/shore power transfer switch die which I fixed myself. No power during that time. They paid more for this thing than any Keystone product and quality was mediocre at best. Should they have been more diligent during a pre-delivery inspection. Heck yeah, but like most folks figure if a dealer tech says all is peachy then what could go wrong? I have a 2002 Cougar and almost no quality issues from the initial build. Huh? Issues today are not usually panels flying off like you experienced but many are in the gee-gaw systems installed... in-command, auto level, and appliances that seem to be less than stellar quality which are likely made in China. I doubt quality and price have any correlation from what I have observed on this forum.

I would suggest if you are considering becoming an RV tech to go to some school for a certification and get some training from appliance makers so they will consider you acceptable to work on their stuff and be an independent tech. I shudder at the thought of working at a dealership. Mobile seems to be less an investment than having a brick and mortar shop even if you have to purchase a van, etc.

My list wasn't by any means a comprehensive one. I've learned how to fix slides that won't, and my previous work as a field engineer was in inverter converter tech. Much larger than RVs, but still useful. I'm retired so I wouldn't necessarily set up shop. Probably just do my own work and help out people in a bind where ever I was at the time.
Reading reviews seems to point out that the QC on newer models of just about anything has gone down hill. Even manufacturers that had pre-2018 stellar reviews aren't looking so good now. We're thinking of moving to a Class A but it's hard to figure out which one might be better without selling all our children and grand kids.

[sourdough]

With the huge boom in RV sales every manufacturer is trying to do their best to put out as many units as fast as they can to "catch their share" of the boom. That translates into a lot of thrown together RVs, from every manufacturer, that the buyer then gets to "sort out". Quality has never been a strong suit of RV manufacturers and today it "seems" worse IMO because we pay so much more for them than we used to.....but they're still the same old thing. I've owned several new trailers and never had one, ONE, that didn't have issues.

As far as your panels, maybe I'm bit like you but I always have problems with them. I always go around prior to buying, assess that they are flimsy by pushing/wiggling them (and they always are) then know what I've got to do when it gets home to firm them up. Some are so flimsy I won't even consider them. Whether it's 10 self tapping screws under the trailer they just drilled right thru the tissue thin metal or broken, missing and bent side supports....they have those problems and one of the first things I do (along with the fender skirts). I keep a bucket of self drilling/tapping screws along with one of fender washers to crawl around and reinforce all those penetrations. Poor workmanship? Nah. It's an RV!!

[Camster]

Originally Posted by sourdough

With the huge boom in RV sales every manufacturer is trying to do their best to put out as many units as fast as they can to "catch their share" of the boom. That translates into a lot of thrown together RVs, from every manufacturer, that the buyer then gets to "sort out". Quality has never been a strong suit of RV manufacturers and today it "seems" worse IMO because we pay so much more for them than we used to.....but they're still the same old thing. I've owned several new trailers and never had one, ONE, that didn't have issues.

As far as your panels, maybe I'm bit like you but I always have problems with them. I always go around prior to buying, assess that they are flimsy by pushing/wiggling them (and they always are) then know what I've got to do when it gets home to firm them up. Some are so flimsy I won't even consider them. Whether it's 10 self tapping screws under the trailer they just drilled right thru the tissue thin metal or broken, missing and bent side supports....they have those problems and one of the first things I do (along with the fender skirts). I keep a bucket of self drilling/tapping screws along with one of fender washers to crawl around and reinforce all those penetrations. Poor workmanship? Nah. It's an RV!!

I hear that. I do the same thing. Guess I'm just not a proactive as you. The Montana only has 4-5 screws holding the panels on (both top and bottom). I've had the skirts come loose too as well as reattaching molding and trim in the interior. I get that the trailers go through an earthquake every time we move them. You'd think they would be designed for that and not fall apart after three or four short trips.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Camster

I hear that. I do the same thing. Guess I'm just not a proactive as you. The Montana only has 4-5 screws holding the panels on (both top and bottom). I've had the skirts come loose too as well as reattaching molding and trim in the interior. I get that the trailers go through an earthquake every time we move them. You'd think they would be designed for that and not fall apart after three or four short trips.

I'm a Design Engineer and business manager by trade and I can tell you that on my last trailer which was a Cougar 333 MKS 5th wheel; I replaced every screw in the wheel well trim with stainless steel screws, washers on both sides and NyLock nuts. I also replaced most if not all rivets with stainless. I made brackets and braces from 316 stainless to replace the aluminum strap and some galvanized strapping. And much more inside and out of the trailer.

I've owned this Avalanche since July and I'm well on my way to a repeat...

[Camster]

Originally Posted by Javi

I'm a Design Engineer and business manager by trade and I can tell you that on my last trailer which was a Cougar 333 MKS 5th wheel; I replaced every screw in the wheel well trim with stainless steel screws, washers on both sides and NyLock nuts. I also replaced most if not all rivets with stainless. I made brackets and braces from 316 stainless to replace the aluminum strap and some galvanized strapping. And much more inside and out of the trailer.

I've owned this Avalanche since July and I'm well on my way to a repeat...

You've definitely taken the proactive route. Too bad it's necessary to have something you can trust when you want to use it.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Camster

You've definitely taken the proactive route. Too bad it's necessary to have something you can trust when you want to use it.

True, but I didn't pay $150k for the privilege 😁

[Javi]

Oh... I got to say that young gal in the short and low cut dress swinging a golf club is a bit much for this old man. These ads are not all that relevant.

[B-O-B'03]

Originally Posted by Javi

Oh... I got to say that young gal in the short and low cut dress swinging a golf club is a bit much for this old man. These ads are not all that relevant.

What is this "young gal in the short and low cut dress swinging a golf club" you speak of?

Maybe I should turn off my ad blocker

-Brian

[Wing-in-it]

I have to tell you, we were thinking of down sizing and went to look at a 2021rear kitchen Outback TT and was shocked at the lack of quality of the build. Back splash literally falling off the wall, roof seals at the caps were pathetic. Just slip-shod work all around the rig if you ask me.....decided to keep our 2015 Fuzion 325 and remodel it instead.

[Hballer21]

Ain’t that the truth..

[Ellen]

Does Keystone actually have Quality Control inspectors??? If so, they should be fired, along with the workers who put this thing together. I wouldn’t consider buying another one.

[P&DZ]

I do not buy the argument that a new RV falls apart because we drag it down the road. Neither do I buy the argument that such poor quality is due to the fact the manufacturers are pushing these units through the factory as fast as they can. I also disagree with the statement "if the manufacturers used better materials there would be fewer problems. It boils down to lack of GOOD engineering, proper material selection, good manufacturing techniques and a rigorous quality control program. I have managed manufacturing plants across multiple sectors, including consumer products and vehicles for 40 years. This is one of the few industries that can get away with such poor quality simply because we keep buying the product.

[CraigB]

We, the consumer, are responsible for the lack of quality in RV's. Manufacturers provide a marginal product, the dealers won't spend the payroll necessary to provide enough service personnel to keep up with warranty work creating waiting time stretching into months. Hence we try to do the work ourselves or just accept the defects and it doesn't cost manufacturers anything. The American auto manufacturers were forced into producing a quality product because consumers bought foreign autos that were better built. We don't have that option
This is a defective product issue that needs government standards for quality and warranty issues to be enacted until the industry wakes up. 60, 70, 80 thousand dollars and we fix it ourselves?? We wouldn't do that with anything else.
Gotta go fix my level-ups....

[Trucker2565]

I bought a 2016 keystone hideout 5th wheel 272 rks I think. Brand new. 1st trip out the furnace didn't work, the microwave didn't work, the molding fell off the exterior door, 2 cabinet doors fell off and broke in half, fridge wouldn't work.. so much for QC. took 5 years and a bunch of arguing for somebody to finally figure out that the propane regulator was only putting out half of the propane pressure needed to run fridge and furnace. 2 furnace control boards/ 2 sail switches/ almost bought a new fridge myself. Cabinets came loose from walls. Had to reinforce them myself. QC is seriously lacking. Keystone told me it is 5 days from axles/ frame to finished product rolling out other end. Miscellaneous screws falling out of skirting. Good luck

[Ellen]

Ok. You win. Much worse than mine! Rubber trim came off both exterior doors as we drove down the highway. Window screens were missing and the dealer “forgot” to call when they came in. The slide came off the cables due to improper installation. Fortunately we were able to ph it in so we could drive home. Now the weather stripping on the slide has rotted (in three years???). And the trim on the interior doors is coming unscrewed/unnailed. The window valances are being held on with heavy duty double stick tape. The dinette that is supposed to make into a bed is a joke…there is no way the cushions fit to make a bed.
Lots and lots of little things needed fixing early on and the dealer was useless.
It has been a constant disappointment. I’m looking for something new but my husband is resistant.

[MarvnMabel]

Oh Lord don't get me started. Ours has been with the dealer more than us