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Old 04-09-2020, 10:47 AM   #201
JRTJH
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Not me. It's an unnecessary financial burden and unrealistic expectation. We already know that 90+% of people that "had symptoms" didn't have COVID19. What, statistically speaking, would make anyone think that percentage would get worse by testing those with "no symptoms"?
There's much MUCH more to the statistical data than just "surmising the 10% do and therefore the 90% don't"..

I just sat in on a webcast for ICDM10 COVID-19 coding. The ICDM codes that were being used until April 6th were the "general illness codes". The "disease specific ICDM codes were not released until that same date. So, ALL statistical data prior to April 6th was "muddy". The current coding is no longer "generalized" and the statistical data is extremely specific. It "codes down to the extreme specifics for each patient". Now, coding will require all aspects of the disease for each patient. Data such as "which swab test", which Lab equipment confirmed the swab, specific rules regarding admission criteria, co-morbidity processes, and a host of other patient specific data is being collected.

WHY???? So when this is all "over and we are trying to determine who has "herd immunity" who has received the vaccine, how effective that vaccine is in specific age groups of patients "and right down to which 48 year old male with specific co-morbidity" is protected by which specific vaccine....

Ideally, even the medical information that seems insignificant, things like what gauge needle and needle length and which arm the vaccine was injected will all "be studied to determine the best process in disease prevention"....

While the above may seem "overkill" to some, knowing the data and how to arrange it for the best understanding of what happened is the most effective means to predict what comes next....

Data matters, early guessing is not data... That's why Italy is currently reassessing all their mortality reporting. We are also reassessing many parts of our "reporting processes and data.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:54 AM   #202
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Most people will not be directly impacted by COVID19. Indirectly, sure. Not point in the sirens going off in OK or KS when the tornado is in NY. Now you see why they have that dumb look on their face?
I'm not sure how you can state "Most people will not be directly impacted by COVID10" when EVERY one of us is living under "shelter in place" orders, instructed to maintain social distancing, no longer going to restaurants or even to retail stores as we did in the past.

I jokingly made a comment yesterday that my truck is getting 4 weeks to the gallon of diesel and next week it'll be getting even better mileage..

WE ALL ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY COVID-19. Some more than others, but everyone is feeling the direct impact of this pandemic.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:57 AM   #203
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...
Data matters, early guessing is not data... That's why Italy is currently reassessing all their mortality reporting. We are also reassessing many parts of our "reporting processes and data.
Data does matter. Take any statistics class and you will easily learn why it's not feasible or even necessary to take a data sample from 100% of the population. That, in fact, would not even be a "sample". And at then end of the day all data is still subject to interpretation, even a 100% data pool.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:01 AM   #204
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I'm not sure how you can state "Most people will not be directly impacted by COVID10" when EVERY one of us is living under "shelter in place" orders, instructed to maintain social distancing, no longer going to restaurants or even to retail stores as we did in the past.

I jokingly made a comment yesterday that my truck is getting 4 weeks to the gallon of diesel and next week it'll be getting even better mileage..

WE ALL ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY COVID-19. Some more than others, but everyone is feeling the direct impact of this pandemic.
Those are indirect impacts. Getting COVID19 is a direct impact.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:12 AM   #205
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Those are indirect impacts. Getting COVID19 is a direct impact.
Ask anyone who is "out of work, sitting at home, unable to visit their family or friends if it's an "indirect impact"... ALL of them will tell you that you do not have to "test positive" to be directly impacted....

Clinically, you may be correct, but to the 30,000+ "laymen" who read this forum, they're directly affected by this pandemic.

That said, I won't be responding to any further "clarifications" of these posts.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:23 PM   #206
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Taking a 20% pay cut directly related to COVID19 crisis world wide is pretty direct in my particular case.

Not being able to visit my Grandsons in the next town over, cancelling numerous outings and events all seem pretty direct and tangible to me and mine.
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:49 PM   #207
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Having my family member or friend die or become hospitalized with Covid-19 is a direct impact on me.

Having your family member or friend die or become hospitalized with Covid-19 is an indirect impact on me.

See what I did there?
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Old 04-09-2020, 02:16 PM   #208
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In the State of Washington 93-94% on the deaths are to people over 70 years old, which means this coronavirus has its largest impact on those of age! Call it anything you want, but to people of our age it is a pretty direct impact. I have been around long enough to know what leadership is all about. I will leave it at that.
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:30 PM   #209
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I take not seeing our daughters and our grandchildren a direct impact. Having one of our daughters spend 5 days in a hospital on oxygen therapy direct. My DW and I spent the night of our 40th wedding anniversary on 3/22 in the hospital because of sever bronchial infection direct (we all tested neg but our endocrinologist says the tests were most likely not accurate).

Having one of our daughters who's divorced and raising a 6 & 7 year old out of work feels direct.

I think standing in line to enter a pharmacy with a grocery store (just a few hrs ago) to get my prescriptions directly impacting. Walking past rows of empty shelving was pretty darned direct. Seeing the terror in people's eyes above their masks direct. I felt like I was shopping in a 1960's East Berlin Leper Colony.

Having someone tell me that "I'm not directly affected" is sad. It's sad to me that someone can't understand that because you don't have the disease that you are not directly affected. Semantics aside, seems very "ill informed" or "uncaring, either of which is a sad statement to me.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:16 PM   #210
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I took a direct hit to my household budget, thanks to Corona virus. Laid off at dealership and shelter in place has caused my side work customers to stay home.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:54 PM   #211
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I'm afraid the picture is still going to stay muddy for the foreseeable future and the stats pertaining to Covid 19 skewed. The deceased gentleman I referred to in an earlier post had several underlying issues resulting in his being in the hospital. He was later diagnosed with Covid 19. By all accounts his death was due to the underlying issues (lungs/heart) not the virus. Newspaper article came out yesterday; cause of death? Covid 19.

We can look at the numbers but unfortunately, to me, they are terribly inaccurate and being twisted and manipulated by the media to stir up a frenzy in not only the population but our government agencies. Hopefully someone gets a handle on it, gets the proper testing equipment distributed and standardized reporting implemented so we can determine exactly what's going on. In the meantime, I've been digging thru the barn looking for my old box of Lionel train parts, which I last saw probably 50 years ago, so I can put it together and watch it go "round and round" while killing time...… I think that's going to beat my daily routine of going to the closet and counting toilet paper rolls ….


Just ran across this article that speaks to the situation I described above. It's unfortunate that we have games being played when the actual, factual data would be so much more beneficial;

https://www.foxnews.com/media/physic...unt-guidelines
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:52 PM   #212
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..
Clinically, you may be correct, but to the 30,000+ "laymen" who read this forum, they're directly affected by this pandemic...
I am correct. Your 30,000+ "laymen" are wrong. . Which is why you should reread my post and apply it in context rather than starting a streaming thread of semantics.
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:58 PM   #213
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Just ran across this article that speaks to the situation I described above. It's unfortunate that we have games being played when the actual, factual data would be so much more beneficial;

https://www.foxnews.com/media/physic...unt-guidelines
That article "alludes" to the same statistical slants that I've been talking about. Patients who are terminal, not expected to live but 3 or 4 days, and are admitted to the hospital, live 10 more days and while in the hospital, are exposed to and develop COVID-19 are being listed as COVID-19 being the cause of death. His example of being hit by a bus, making it to the hospital, being tested positive for COVID-19, but injuries from the bus accident are unquestionably the cause of death, however COVID-19 is listed... The statistics are significantly skewed....

Why ??? I haven't got that figured out yet (may never even come close) but watching the world/US cases and the world/US death rates, the "only significant dense population areas" are places where "lots of testing is taking place... It's not an accurate reflection of what's happening...
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Old 04-10-2020, 03:11 AM   #214
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Just a few examples of where we are during this pandemic: We have Danny using Fox News to bolster the information in a semi-heated discussion. We have said discussion because of the differences in 'direct' and 'indirect.' Things have gotten so bad that after Wired George's idea we're thinking of mounting a bidet at the end of our kitchen island and watching CNN 30 minutes a day to offset our Gunsmoke reruns.
And if you really are looking for confusion, research the actual definitions of 'direct' and 'indirect.' You better have a full pot of coffee handy...
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Old 04-10-2020, 04:33 AM   #215
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McRod, An argument over semantics is really entertaining. Folks are sitting home and obviously have little to do except debate semantics so that would be a direct affect of the Covid-19 pandemic. EVERYONE in the good ol' USA and perhaps most all the world has had their life paradigm shifted some; some more than others. We can worry about what the new normal will look like but as the Bible says, “Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.”
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Old 04-10-2020, 04:35 AM   #216
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Just a few examples of where we are during this pandemic: We have Danny using Fox News to bolster the information in a semi-heated discussion. We have said discussion because of the differences in 'direct' and 'indirect.' Things have gotten so bad that after Wired George's idea we're thinking of mounting a bidet at the end of our kitchen island and watching CNN 30 minutes a day to offset our Gunsmoke reruns.
And if you really are looking for confusion, research the actual definitions of 'direct' and 'indirect.' You better have a full pot of coffee handy...

Ain't life GRAND!!? Heck, if we weren't here giving each other something to do (talk, gripe, type about) what else would we be doing? As I mentioned in another post...I'm tired of counting toilet paper rolls, DW wants me to go count how many pieces of trail mix we have for puppy, I want to study on new BBQ grills (the 'ol Weber Q2200 bought last summer just won't cut it) and NOW, after all the discussion I'm thinking I might need a bidet.....at the end of the kitchen counter??? (now that would be a sight). Naw, typing ain't so bad and I just poured a new cup of coffee...…
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Old 04-10-2020, 05:17 AM   #217
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Bidet at the end of the kitchen island? And all these years I thought that was for washing vegetables.
I guess I built too many restaurants in my life.
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Old 04-10-2020, 07:44 AM   #218
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Things have gotten so bad that after Wired George's idea we're thinking of mounting a bidet at the end of our kitchen island
Don't forget to put it on top of your wife's nightstand first to paint it.

Or was that some other thread?
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