2013 F250 Crew Cab Short Bed Tow Capacity

Gbarnes · 01-23-2016, 07:49 PM

The only towing experience I have is with travel trailers. I've looked closely at upgrading to a bigger TT, but have come to the realization I will need a 5th wheel to get what I really want out of my RV. I'm one to be very sure to not exceed the safe tow rating of my vehicle. This will be my first ever fifth wheel so I have zero experience here. My question is what can I comfortably and safely tow with my TV? The 5th wheel specs that I really like are:

13,680 GAWR
16,263 GVWR
2583 hitch weight
2863 CCC

Is this something I can properly tow? My TV is an 2013 4X4 F250 short bed crew cab Powerstroke diesel.

Any help for a fifth wheel newby is greatly appreciated!

Festus2 · 01-23-2016, 07:59 PM

The answer to your question can be found in large part simply by looking at the yellow sticker on the door post of your F250. Post those figures here so we can make a more informed and accurate recommendation.

Gbarnes · 01-23-2016, 08:14 PM

That may have ended this discussion quickly. It says the total combined weight of passengers and cargo should not exceed 2003 lbs.! I guess that means I need a lot less fifth wheel or a bigger truck...correct? Looks like I'd be within the tow capacity, but over on the weight in the truck?

**JRTJH** · 01-23-2016, 08:22 PM

Having owned a 2013 F250 supercab 4x4 (gas) and now a 2015 F250 crewcab 4x4 (diesel), I can say that you'll be "at or over" on payload, GCWR and probably also over on maximum trailer weight.

The 2013 F250 CC 4x4 Diesel has the following capacities:

GVW 10000
Payload 2400 (will change based on optional equipment, series (XL, XLT, Lariat)
GCWR 23500
Max Fifth Wheel 15900

Now, if you consider a trailer t hat has an "empty pin weight" of 2583, you're already over your payload. Remember that the "empty pin weight" does not include batteries, propane, water, or any of your camping gear, clothing, food, other equipment necessary to travel. You must also consider the fifth wheel hitch and any other cargo (including passengers) as a part of your payload, so you can easily be 500-1000 pounds over payload with just a couple of people in the truck and the fifth wheel hitched to the truck.

The GCWR is reduced by the weight of the truck, leaving the remainder for the trailer. So, if you take the 23500 and subtract the 15900 (what's listed in the specs as max trailer) you're left with 7600. I have not yet seen any diesel superduty that weighs that little. Every one I've seen has pushed 8000. Add two passengers (300) a fifth wheel hitch (150) and your truck weight will be closer to 8800 pounds or more. Given that figure, the max trailer would be 23500-8800=14700. Using the figures you provided, the trailer GVW is 16263 with a cargo capacity of 2863 leaving an "empty weight" of 13400. Add 60 for propane, 100 for batteries and you're looking at about 13500 for the empty trailer with a pin weight of 2583.

With the truck payload of 2400 minus 500 for passengers and hitch, you'll be about 700 pounds over your truck's payload with the empty trailer.

As I said, I have a 2015 F250 CC diesel. I tow a Cougar XLite 27RKS with an empty weight of 7200, advertised pin weight of 1120, GVW of 10000. When loaded for travel, we're at our truck's GVW and we're only at about 9000-9500 pounds of total trailer weight. Our pin weight is about 1800 pounds at that trailer weight. I'd "shudder to think" I had to add another 1000 pounds to my truck.

You're in F350 SRW and possibly DRW territory with a 16000 pound fifth wheel.

Gbarnes · 01-23-2016, 08:35 PM

Thanks for the info. I think I've ruled out the 5th wheel I really like, but there are a few in the same line I'd still be happy with, but based off my understanding they will all be too big. For example, there is one that has a 12000GAWR, a 14136 GVWR and a 2136 hitch weight. Based off my truck having a 2003 passenger and cargo capacity of 2003 lbs. I'd still be over on pin weight. Am I missing something? It seems there isn't any 5th wheel of any size I could tow with a cab full of two or three adults.

Festus2 · 01-23-2016, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gbarnes

I guess that means I need a lot less fifth wheel or a bigger truck...correct? ?

I think you've correctly answered your own question.

Festus2 · 01-23-2016, 08:57 PM

If you browse through the Cougar 5th wheel models (2015) on Keystone's website and look at the floor plans and specs of the models shown, you should find several fivers that could be safely towed by your present F250. The hitch weights and carrying capacities all fall with the capability of your truck.

There are also a number of the Cougar "Lite" models that would be, I believe, very suitable and are worthy of your consideration.

The models I looked at would certainly fit the needs of 2 adults and 1 or 2 children.

**JRTJH** · 01-23-2016, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gbarnes

Thanks for the info. I think I've ruled out the 5th wheel I really like, but there are a few in the same line I'd still be happy with, but based off my understanding they will all be too big. For example, there is one that has a 12000GAWR, a 14136 GVWR and a 2136 hitch weight. Based off my truck having a 2003 passenger and cargo capacity of 2003 lbs. I'd still be over on pin weight. Am I missing something? It seems there isn't any 5th wheel of any size I could tow with a cab full of two or three adults.

No, you're not missing anything. Unfortunately, the SuperDuty line has the lowest payload of all the "big 3" manufacturers. Mainly, it's due to the larger truck size (weighs more than the other two) and all of them having the same 10000 GVW. A GM that weighs 7100 pounds with a GVW of 10K will have a payload of 2900. A Dodge that weighs 6900 will have a payload of 3100. The Ford "starts" with 3500 pound payload, but by the time you add the "luxury options" and the diesel, the truck comes closer to weighing 7800 leaving a payload of 2200. It gets even worse with the "high end" KR or Platinum models....

About the only way you can get "close" to what you want to tow is with a F350. We have one member who just traded his F350 for a Dodge, just because of payload. Given your "two or three adults" (600 pounds) by the time you add a fifth wheel hitch, you're realistically looking at a fifth wheel with a pin weight in the 1300 pound "towing range". Even my 31' XLite is 500 pounds heavier than that when loaded for travel....

Gbarnes · 01-24-2016, 07:29 AM

So it looks like there are a few 5th wheels that will give me most of what I need with lighter pin weights. If I'm on the bubble of maxing out my payload capacity (10000 gvw - 7800 truck weight - 600 passenger weight), I'm left with 1600 lbs available pin weight before the hitch etc. . (If I'm following this correctly). There are several fifth wheels in the 1500-1750 range so I would be a little over. Are there any modifications to my truck I can do to help? Air bags etc.? The sticker on the door shows a front GAWR of 5200 and a rear GAWR of 6100 which totals 11,300 of axel capacity.

Festus2 · 01-24-2016, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gbarnes

Are there any modifications to my truck I can do to help? Air bags etc.? .

The addition of air bags and/or helper springs will do nothing to increase your truck's payload/towing capacity. They might make for a smoother ride and level out the two units but that's about it. Other than decreasing the weight of the Ford P/U, your truck "is what it is". What's the old saying...."You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"???

If you are "stuck with" your current F250 for whatever reasons, then your best and perhaps only option is to start looking at a lighter, smaller 5th wheel.

**JRTJH** · 01-24-2016, 08:07 AM

By "playing the shell game" you can "hide weight from the payload" by claiming that it's "still less than the axle rating" or "unload passengers" if you ever get stopped by the "weight police".... You can also claim, "I'm not commercially towing, so those rules don't apply to me." It all, in my opinion, boils down to whether or not your insurance company and your banker (personal assets) are secure enough to weather the civil lawsuits that are very likely headed your way if you're involved in an accident. It's not a matter of who is at fault, rather, who wasn't following all the manufacturer's limitations that will determine who wins in court.....

There are those who will argue that the F250 axles, wheels, tires and frame are "exactly" the same as the F350, "so it doesn't matter, you'll be OK".... The only significant difference is "that yellow sticker" and what lawyers and judges will determine to be your future, should anything happen. For me, I've worked far too long and would put too much of my personal future security "at risk" by "gambling on nothing happening".... Your personal situation may be different. Only you know what assets you're willing to risk when it comes to "ignoring that yellow sticker".......

Gbarnes · 01-24-2016, 08:35 AM

I could possibly trade to a 350, but hate to. My 250 is paid for! This has been an eye opening exercise in that it is amazing how many people are towing 5th wheels that are overweight! I see 250s all the time towing big 5th wheels. I went to the local RV show yesterday and everyone I talked to (granted mostly salesmen) acted like I had nothing to worry about with a mid sized 5th wheel since I had a 3/4 ton. Sounds to me like there are a lot of people overloaded.

notanlines · 01-24-2016, 09:32 AM

It really isn't a problem hauling that big rig with your 250. It's done everyday. Simply have the sales manager sign the waiver claiming their responsibility for your misfortune.

Actually, wouldn't it make more sense taking momma and go shopping for a nice used 350 even a nice 3500 GMC? Or a nice used 3500 Dodge and buy different mirrors?

larry337 · 01-24-2016, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notanlines

....Or a nice used 3500 Dodge and buy different mirrors?

LOL [emoji1]

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Javi · 01-24-2016, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gbarnes

I could possibly trade to a 350, but hate to. My 250 is paid for! This has been an eye opening exercise in that it is amazing how many people are towing 5th wheels that are overweight! I see 250s all the time towing big 5th wheels. I went to the local RV show yesterday and everyone I talked to (granted mostly salesmen) acted like I had nothing to worry about with a mid sized 5th wheel since I had a 3/4 ton. Sounds to me like there are a lot of people overloaded.

Truthfully, the number of people hauling trailers far beyond the capacity of their tow vehicle is astronomical. All one has to do is walk through a campground and look at the TV and trailer combos...

We spent the week between Christmas and New Years at a small state park with something like 54 beachfront sites... I saw at least two 1/2 ton pickups pulling 30'+ 5th wheels, and several 3/4 ton pickups pulling 35'+ 5'ers... Then I saw a 40' TH being pulled by an early 2000's F250 with 16" tires.... No way was he remotely within the limits of his tire load range.. not even close, forget about the sticker on the door...

To be fair I also saw a popup camper being towed by a dually...

larry337 · 01-24-2016, 10:27 AM

This is why I always tell people to skip the three quarter ton and just buy a one ton. There's virtually no significant difference in ride or cost. For sure not in a Ford at least, possibly different in other brands, I don't know.

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**sourdough** · 01-24-2016, 10:51 AM

I have a 2014 Ram 2500 with a payload of just less than 3200lbs...much more than the OP. I've looked at specs on lots of 5th wheels and have found that I'm not going to buy one unless I get a 3500. It adds about 1000lbs of payload if I recall and puts me in a range weight wise where I don't have to worry about every little thing.

As has been said, and observed, there are many folks using rigs that are so overloaded they even look unsafe visually. The truck will pull it, but at the end of the day, if and when something terrible happens, I don't want to be the one that knowingly contributed to the injury or death of my family members or others. Our ability to assimilate this knowledge and act upon it properly is why we are considered "intelligent" beings.....I think

Gbarnes · 01-24-2016, 10:57 AM

Thanks for all the great advice! I really appreciate it. Now that my 5th wheel hopes are dwindling, I'm looking at a small 5er or a larger TT with multiple slides. My current TT has one slide....sooooo, how much is too much tongue weight on a TT? I will be using a weight distributing hitch.

larry337 · 01-24-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourdough

I have a 2014 Ram 2500 with a payload of just less than 3200lbs...much more than the OP. I've looked at specs on lots of 5th wheels and have found that I'm not going to buy one unless I get a 3500. It adds about 1000lbs of payload if I recall and puts me in a range weight wise where I don't have to worry about every little thing.

As has been said, and observed, there are many folks using rigs that are so overloaded they even look unsafe visually. The truck will pull it, but at the end of the day, if and when something terrible happens, I don't want to be the one that knowingly contributed to the injury or death of my family members or others. Our ability to assimilate this knowledge and act upon it properly is why we are considered "intelligent" beings.....I think

For some reason I thought you had a Chevy, but at any rate do you have gas or diesel? The diesel engine robs another 600 pounds give or take of payload.

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Festus2 · 01-24-2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gbarnes

Thanks for all the great advice! I really appreciate it. Now that my 5th wheel hopes are dwindling, I'm looking at a small 5er or a larger TT with multiple slides. My current TT has one slide....sooooo, how much is too much tongue weight on a TT? .

I wouldn't discard a 5th wheel since there are a few out there that just might fit your needs. Smaller than what you had originally hoped for but buying an RV or a tow vehicle involves compromise. Sometimes, we can't always have what we want.

In answer to your question about tongue weight......... too much tongue weight on a TT is just the same as too much pin weight on a 5th wheel. How much is too much? How do you answer that?

You're overweight or you're not. Well, maybe just a little bit.

I am recalling something you said in your first post ..." I am one to be very sure to not exceed the tow rating of my vehicle".

Mmmmm... can't ever remember a salesman telling me that "You'll be just fine towing this with your truck. Not a problem!"

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