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Old 12-30-2020, 10:03 AM   #1
ChuckS
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RV Self Contained Electrical Outlet Upgrade

IMO the Self Contained OEM RV style outlets are junk. They meet the NEC standard but the amount of actual surface contact the wires make with the spring clips is marginal at best....

The industry uses these because they are quick to install and get the job done.. sometimes... IF the person using the SCD tool to install the wires into this type of outlet isn't experienced or doesn't check his work then you end up with a 120 volt AC outlet that may fail due to intermittent or no connection problem down the road

Additionally.. with many folks running inside space heaters and lots of high wattage appliances like an instapot, toaster, crock pot, hair dryer the outlet is drawing a lot of current with marginal surface contact at the wire to spring clamping feature on the back of the SC style outlet.

A simple low cost upgrade for all your 120 volt AC outlets would be to remove the SC style RV outlet and install in its place a "Old Work Box" SHALLOW style outlet box with a new 120 volt AC receptacle using the style with screws on the side to attach the wires.

This will give you an outlet that can safely and reliably draw current and wont vibrate loose after towing down less than stellar roads.

I've done this with my 2014 Alpine even though none of the OEM SC style outlets had caused any issues. I immediately noticed the outlet in the kitchen my wife uses for her appliances is much cooler to the touch..

I also removed the OEM fireplace and replaced that outlet as well.. a bit more work to remove the fireplace but worth the effort

The pieces and parts needed to upgrade your SC style RV outlets can be found at any Lowes or Home Depot or ordered on line

Old Work Shallow Box:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1...RSWR/202077341

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-1-Ga...l-Box/50425678

***There are a few other style "Old Work Shallow" single gang boxes that may suit your particular RV better then the ones I've shown but these worked fine for my application

Replacement 120 volt 15 amp outlet:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-ECP/301361472

You can buy the outlets in bulk ( ten per pack) and save a bit... I bought bulk

Images of a typical OEM SC style RV outlet.. you can see there was minimal contact and one pic it looks like the spring clamp didn't penetrate the wire insulation at all

If you have some basic electrical skills this is an easy task to complete and will assure you that your RV 120 volt AC outlets are safer and more reliable..

And of course.. safety is paramount. Disconnect shore power or kill the 120 volt AC breaker on the outlets your going to work on
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:44 AM   #2
rhagfo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
IMO the Self Contained OEM RV style outlets are junk. They meet the NEC standard but the amount of actual surface contact the wires make with the spring clips is marginal at best....

The industry uses these because they are quick to install and get the job done.. sometimes... IF the person using the SCD tool to install the wires into this type of outlet isn't experienced or doesn't check his work then you end up with a 120 volt AC outlet that may fail due to intermittent or no connection problem down the road

Additionally.. with many folks running inside space heaters and lots of high wattage appliances like an instapot, toaster, crock pot, hair dryer the outlet is drawing a lot of current with marginal surface contact at the wire to spring clamping feature on the back of the SC style outlet.

A simple low cost upgrade for all your 120 volt AC outlets would be to remove the SC style RV outlet and install in its place a "Old Work Box" SHALLOW style outlet box with a new 120 volt AC receptacle using the style with screws on the side to attach the wires.

This will give you an outlet that can safely and reliably draw current and wont vibrate loose after towing down less than stellar roads.

I've done this with my 2014 Alpine even though none of the OEM SC style outlets had caused any issues. I immediately noticed the outlet in the kitchen my wife uses for her appliances is much cooler to the touch..

I also removed the OEM fireplace and replaced that outlet as well.. a bit more work to remove the fireplace but worth the effort

The pieces and parts needed to upgrade your SC style RV outlets can be found at any Lowes or Home Depot or ordered on line

Old Work Shallow Box:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1...RSWR/202077341

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-1-Ga...l-Box/50425678

***There are a few other style "Old Work Shallow" single gang boxes that may suit your particular RV better then the ones I've shown but these worked fine for my application

Replacement 120 volt 15 amp outlet:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-ECP/301361472

You can buy the outlets in bulk ( ten per pack) and save a bit... I bought bulk

Images of a typical OEM SC style RV outlet.. you can see there was minimal contact and one pic it looks like the spring clamp didn't penetrate the wire insulation at all

If you have some basic electrical skills this is an easy task to complete and will assure you that your RV 120 volt AC outlets are safer and more reliable..

And of course.. safety is paramount. Disconnect shore power or kill the 120 volt AC breaker on the outlets your going to work on
Really all that work and you install a 68 cent receptical, for the number of outlets in an RV use good quality devices!
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:45 AM   #3
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This is excellent advice. The blades that the wires are shoved into don't hold the wires over time as electricity has some vibration. We had these type boxes installed in our home but I have since replaced all of them with the type where a tightened screw holds a stripped wire wrapped around it. The best info in Chuck's write up was where to find the shallow boxes. These are needed as the walls in an RV are too thin for regular stick-built home boxes. Thanks Chuck!
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Old 12-30-2020, 10:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Really all that work and you install a 68 cent receptacle, for the number of outlets in an RV use good quality devices!
I'm surprised at the criticism regarding the outlet. Sure .. if you want to spend more on the replacement outlet then by all means HD and other stores have more expensive 15 amp outlets to buy.

I'm using the cheap crap in my home.. replaced all the 30 year old outlets with low cost 15 amp ones.. Original in house used the spring push hole on back side

My point was to illustrate an easy upgrade at an affordable cost. AND.. the .68 cent outlet is by far a better option than the OEM SC style outlet that is used in the RV assembly industry.

Comments like this make me just want to quit this group but I feel I have valid points and suggestions to offer that can and HAVE IN THE PAST helped a few folks asking for help

At 66 years of age I got better things to do then play keyboard warrior
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Old 12-30-2020, 11:25 AM   #5
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I think the upgrades are a great idea. I used to work in field service for various mobile home manufacturers and they loved those press-fit in-line outlets too.

As far as what to use for replacements, I personally prefer a good quality receptacle over the cheaper ones. The price difference is about $1 and for that I might as well go with the better one. Also, the push-in connections on the back are worse than the in-line outlets as far as wire contact surface. I would strongly recommend using the screw terminals on the side for your wire connections. This is my personal preference and I am not imposing my will on anyone, just sharing.

He is a good article on the subject: https://www.thespruce.com/not-using-...itches-1152406
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
I'm surprised at the criticism regarding the outlet. Sure .. if you want to spend more on the replacement outlet then by all means HD and other stores have more expensive 15 amp outlets to buy.

I'm using the cheap crap in my home.. replaced all the 30 year old outlets with low cost 15 amp ones.. Original in house used the spring push hole on back side

My point was to illustrate an easy upgrade at an affordable cost. AND.. the .68 cent outlet is by far a better option than the OEM SC style outlet that is used in the RV assembly industry.

Comments like this make me just want to quit this group but I feel I have valid points and suggestions to offer that can and HAVE IN THE PAST helped a few folks asking for help

At 66 years of age I got better things to do then play keyboard warrior
I am sorry if my comment offended you, but if I am going to the effort to replace an outlet because it has minimal contact with the wire I am going to use one that will make strong contact at the blades that are plugged into it.
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Old 12-30-2020, 12:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
This is excellent advice. The blades that the wires are shoved into don't hold the wires over time as electricity has some vibration. We had these type boxes installed in our home but I have since replaced all of them with the type where a tightened screw holds a stripped wire wrapped around it. The best info in Chuck's write up was where to find the shallow boxes. These are needed as the walls in an RV are too thin for regular stick-built home boxes. Thanks Chuck!
I bookmarked these that another poster also recommended if you need a bit more depth than a shallow box will give:

https://www.homedepot.com/s/electric...0spacer?NCNI-5

also they are on amazon
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Old 12-30-2020, 03:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Really all that work and you install a 68 cent receptical, for the number of outlets in an RV use good quality devices!

I think Chuck's post was to educate folks on how to get rid of the atrocious OE fixtures in an RV. His links were to show you examples what you can buy to accomplish the job...not WHAT you HAD to buy IMO. If anyone has ever installed outlets, and I've installed countless numbers of them, you know you can buy them for a little or a lot (for an outlet). Heck, I used to buy them by the box for something like .39 or something like that. Got some out in an old barn that I put in 20+ years ago and as the sayin goes...they take a lickin but keep on a tickin.

Bottom line, for me, is appreciation for sharing the remedy to an ever present problem in RVs and not so much about picking a "cadillac" component to recommend. Sort of like folks like to buy a 70k Lexus when they can get the same thing in a Toyota for 50k....to each his own (I keep that extra 20k btw ).

Edit; and the suggested plug used screws, not blades to improve the connection for the wires to outlet.
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Old 12-30-2020, 03:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
I'm surprised at the criticism regarding the outlet. Sure .. if you want to spend more on the replacement outlet then by all means HD and other stores have more expensive 15 amp outlets to buy.

I'm using the cheap crap in my home.. replaced all the 30 year old outlets with low cost 15 amp ones.. Original in house used the spring push hole on back side

My point was to illustrate an easy upgrade at an affordable cost. AND.. the .68 cent outlet is by far a better option than the OEM SC style outlet that is used in the RV assembly industry.

Comments like this make me just want to quit this group but I feel I have valid points and suggestions to offer that can and HAVE IN THE PAST helped a few folks asking for help

At 66 years of age I got better things to do then play keyboard warrior
Chuck, I for one appreciated the post and effort to educate/help folks remedy what is, IMO, a potential problem that can be resolved easily and cheaply. Many don't know of these options. Heck, when I lost AC to my Suburban water heater and it wasn't the burned up switch you immediately sent the diagram showing the problematic relay on the back of the hwh that I didn't know existed AND I didn't have to dig into and find the diagrams myself. It is appreciated and not a waste of time. I hope you will continue to contribute for others benefit.
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Old 12-30-2020, 04:45 PM   #10
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I think I'll wait until the border opens back up before attempting this.

https://www.amazon.ca/Carlon-Shallow.../dp/B00QKSMPPE
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Old 12-30-2020, 05:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough View Post
I think Chuck's post was to educate folks on how to get rid of the atrocious OE fixtures in an RV. His links were to show you examples what you can buy to accomplish the job...not WHAT you HAD to buy IMO. If anyone has ever installed outlets, and I've installed countless numbers of them, you know you can buy them for a little or a lot (for an outlet). Heck, I used to buy them by the box for something like .39 or something like that. Got some out in an old barn that I put in 20+ years ago and as the sayin goes...they take a lickin but keep on a tickin.

Bottom line, for me, is appreciation for sharing the remedy to an ever present problem in RVs and not so much about picking a "cadillac" component to recommend. Sort of like folks like to buy a 70k Lexus when they can get the same thing in a Toyota for 50k....to each his own (I keep that extra 20k btw ).

Edit; and the suggested plug used screws, not blades to improve the connection for the wires to outlet.
I also appreciated Chuck’s post, he referenced an excellent shallow box, he potentially moved the bad connection issue from the wired connection to the blades of the device being plugged in.
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:07 PM   #12
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Sounds like good advice to me. Being an electrician I just assumed RV's had regular receptacles like a house has. Since it's turned colder we have used space heaters from time to time when we are camping. We use them when we are inside and not sleeping. Makes sense to me to change out at least the ones we use that draw more amps.
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post

Comments like this make me just want to quit this group but I feel I have valid points and suggestions to offer that can and HAVE IN THE PAST helped a few folks asking for help

At 66 years of age I got better things to do then play keyboard warrior
Stick around Chuck. I enjoy your posts.
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Old 12-30-2020, 06:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
IMO the Self Contained OEM RV style outlets are junk. They meet the NEC standard but the amount of actual surface contact the wires make with the spring clips is marginal at best....

The industry uses these because they are quick to install and get the job done.. sometimes... IF the person using the SCD tool to install the wires into this type of outlet isn't experienced or doesn't check his work then you end up with a 120 volt AC outlet that may fail due to intermittent or no connection problem down the road

Additionally.. with many folks running inside space heaters and lots of high wattage appliances like an instapot, toaster, crock pot, hair dryer the outlet is drawing a lot of current with marginal surface contact at the wire to spring clamping feature on the back of the SC style outlet.

A simple low cost upgrade for all your 120 volt AC outlets would be to remove the SC style RV outlet and install in its place a "Old Work Box" SHALLOW style outlet box with a new 120 volt AC receptacle using the style with screws on the side to attach the wires.

This will give you an outlet that can safely and reliably draw current and wont vibrate loose after towing down less than stellar roads.

I've done this with my 2014 Alpine even though none of the OEM SC style outlets had caused any issues. I immediately noticed the outlet in the kitchen my wife uses for her appliances is much cooler to the touch..

I also removed the OEM fireplace and replaced that outlet as well.. a bit more work to remove the fireplace but worth the effort

The pieces and parts needed to upgrade your SC style RV outlets can be found at any Lowes or Home Depot or ordered on line

Old Work Shallow Box:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1...RSWR/202077341

https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-1-Ga...l-Box/50425678

***There are a few other style "Old Work Shallow" single gang boxes that may suit your particular RV better then the ones I've shown but these worked fine for my application

Replacement 120 volt 15 amp outlet:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-ECP/301361472

You can buy the outlets in bulk ( ten per pack) and save a bit... I bought bulk

Images of a typical OEM SC style RV outlet.. you can see there was minimal contact and one pic it looks like the spring clamp didn't penetrate the wire insulation at all

If you have some basic electrical skills this is an easy task to complete and will assure you that your RV 120 volt AC outlets are safer and more reliable..

And of course.. safety is paramount. Disconnect shore power or kill the 120 volt AC breaker on the outlets your going to work on
Thanks for taking the time to post this information.I’m going to upgrade a few of my outlets ,particularly ones that we plug heater and coffee maker in to
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Old 12-30-2020, 07:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
IMO the Self Contained OEM RV style outlets are junk...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhagfo View Post
Really all that work and you install a 68 cent receptacle, for the number of outlets in an RV use good quality devices!
Actually, I appreciate BOTH off these messages! Chuck points out a problem with an example low cost fix. Russ suggests that it might be worth spending a bit more to get higher quality.

BOTH of these thoughts are valid and they are both valuable. We want to be safe so greatly appreciate the info. We always try to purchase at (say) the 75% level - we don't want the very best (100%), but we probably want more than average (50%). Now that we know the problem, we can apply our thinking and make the right decision for us.

So thanks to BOTH of you for proving valuable information to all of us forum grazers!
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Old 12-30-2020, 09:21 PM   #16
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Wife wanted to get out for a bit and we both needed some fresh air to clear our heads .. gotta love 2020 with Covid...

Anyway stopped by Home Depot and Lowe’s to revisit the 120 volt AC 15 amp outlets.

There are many to chose from.. and some of course with the USB feature built in.. this would be nice but you’d have to remember that all that extra current draw adds up if you were boon docking and running off generator

I did some simple minded test using one of their generic 15 amp standard type male 3 prong plus and compared various outlets .. my method of testing was to see how tightly the plug was held in place and if there was any wiggle or slop in the plug..

This one is a good compromise from the lower cost unit I posted earlier ...the plug really stays gripped when you insert it to the outlet.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-WMP/100684044

Its commercial grade rated.. as are most all of them in HD.. it’s a bulk pack so cost would be roughly $1.79 an outlet if bought in bulk

Probably a better choice outlet then previous one I posted... all one can do is look at the choices available and decided what “they” want to use. The outlet I initially posted is also rated “commercial grade” for whatever that’s worth and is comparable in plug retention grip and wiggle/slop check

Not very scientific but it’s the best this aged mind could conjure up.

*** the level of expertise within this group on various subjects is second to none.. there IS help available for everyone that needs help, advise, opinions, been there done that experience, etc...

I’ve watched countless times the patience, help, and guidance many have put forth to walk an OP thru a process of troubleshooting an issue and resolving the issue.. to me this is one of the special points of a group like this..

And... when I, wrong I will say I’m wrong..

Russ... my comments weren’t warranted toward your comment and I see the logic behind your thinking.. wishing you and your family many good times, safe travels and a Happy and safe New Year...
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:16 AM   #17
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Chuck thanks for the update and for all you do.

This thread is a great example of how those that chose to offer their experiences and knowledge often do so in a "generic" tone. If a question pertains to let's say a specific model fridge then an answer of "you need model xxx control board is appropriate. But when a an issue is generic in nature than a generic offering is appropriate.

Often a thread will be viewed by hundreds if not thousands of folks over the years. Some may follow a link that's no longer active and ask anew, some will simply look for similar products. It's all down to a bit of common sense. What works great for me may not work great for you. I'm not a gambling type hut I'll bet if Chuck would have posted a link to a commercial or hospital grade plug initially someone would have commented on how that was a terrific waste of money.

Example, I have two outlets in our unit for televisions. The LED TVs get plugged in one time and are not touched again unless replacing the TV. The TV draws very little amperage so heat is not an issue. Therefore an economical receptacle is well suited. Above the sink there are two outlets that are hidden (unless I'm on my knees) that face down. Those we use for the Keurig coffee maker, the ice maker, or toaster. The outlets are under a large amperage load, must hold the plug in against gravity, and get used every time we setup or break camp. That outlet requires a high quality receptacle.

The outlets on either side our bed, and the one in the rear wall of the trailer I replaced with a recept. with built in USB ports. That's where we typically charge our devices and I dislike the clutter of the charger hanging in the outlet and no issue with "will this charger charge a tablet or just a phone. I have a variety of cables so anyone visiting can plug in and charge up without concern for brining or taking a charger. It just makes life easier for us. Others may not see it that way and that's o.k.

The point is, for this type thread there is no "right" or "wrong" answers. For some threads there are and it should be pointed out if it can steer the inexperienced in a potentially dangerous direction. A little common sense can go a long way.
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:37 AM   #18
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Over 20 years of RV ownership, 1 pop-up, 3 travel trailers, 1 Fifth Wheel, and never had any problems with any factory installed wall outlets.
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:59 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by dutchmensport View Post
Over 20 years of RV ownership, 1 pop-up, 3 travel trailers, 1 Fifth Wheel, and never had any problems with any factory installed wall outlets.
My point exactly. That's your experience but how many times do we see posts where folks have "lost power to x outlets" and it's been a poor connection in the "daisy chain"?
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Old 12-31-2020, 07:11 AM   #20
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Good discussion and good points, not one of us is as smart as all of us.
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