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Old 01-19-2021, 10:50 PM   #1
Kodt
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Pump Cycles Roughly Every 5hrs

Brand new 2021 keystone hideout. The pump will cycle for like 5 secs it's usually spread out time wise. I'd say roughly 5-7hrs. I'm just trying to see if this is normal?

We arent using water in the time period. But I'll also say I didnt run the outside shower after filling water. So I was thinking it could be legit air in the line?

I'm not sure this is all new to me. Any ideas help. I plan to call the dealer tomorrow.
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Old 01-20-2021, 12:56 AM   #2
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If the system is purged with no leaks it should not cycle unless there is demand. Not sure if you have an icemaker or anything that is auto activated.
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Old 01-20-2021, 03:31 AM   #3
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You need to purge the air from the entire system including the outside shower. Water will not compress, air will. Air trapped in the water lines will compress and over time the water can incorporate into the water causing the pressure to drop and the pump to energize briefly. Purge the entire system then if the condition persists you either have an external water leak or an internal one (pump diaphragm not holding or check valve not holding leaking water back into the tank).
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Old 01-20-2021, 08:54 AM   #4
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Flybouy hit it right on the head! Purging the outside shower, the inside shower and the hot water heater are steps that are really easy to overlook. As he said once you're positive that all the air has been bled, it's down to looking for leaks.
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Old 01-21-2021, 09:53 AM   #5
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Flybouy hit it right on the head! Purging the outside shower, the inside shower and the hot water heater are steps that are really easy to overlook. As he said once you're positive that all the air has been bled, it's down to looking for leaks.


So when purging the hot water heater (this is gonna be a dumb question) would I shut off water pump?
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:12 AM   #6
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So when purging the hot water heater (this is gonna be a dumb question) would I shut off water pump?
The only way to purge the water heater, or anything else is to run water thru it until it stops spurting and the water flows normally. You can do that with the city water connected or the pump running. This can take a few minutes to get all the air out of the system. With that said, the water heater should have a pocket of air in the top of the tank. It's designed that way to allow the water in the tank to expand when heated. That air will not purge out unless you open the temp/pressure relief valve on top of the tank which the water heater mfg will tell you NOT TO DO.
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Old 01-21-2021, 12:07 PM   #7
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I don't agree with the air in the lines that needs to be purged theory. If you are using your water heater, it's purged as much as it can be already. The same is true with any other line in your camper.

More than likely, you have a very small drip. More than likely at the water heater drain plug or anode rod. They can (and do) drip sometimes is not tightened or if Tefflon tape is not used to help seal the threads. Also, your water heater may allow water to escape from the pressure relief valve if it builds up too much pressure by getting too hot. This is where I'd check first.

It only takes the amount of water that is 1/4th of an inch deep in the bottom of a normal drinking glass for the water pump to turn on and cycle. A few drops of water will lower the pressure in the lines enough for the pump to kick on. It takes very, very little water to lower the pressure in solid lines. This is why so many people will install pressure tanks in their lines.

You could also have an actual leak under the trailer floor, so small it's not noticeable, but enough the water pump will kick on every so often. Before the next drop of water falls, the first one is evaporated. Thus, you'll never see or feel and actual wet spot.

Or there could be a very, very slight drip at any faucet that is not readily detectable.

The only other possibility is the water pump itself. The built in check valve that prevents water from back flowing back to the fresh water holding tank is failing slightly, allowing water to back-feed. It's very, very slight though, since the pump comes only only every so often.

Our previous camper had this same problem, but the pump cycle times started increasing more and more, to the point where it was cycling on and off about once ever 10 minutes. I ended up pulling the pump and when I did I realized there was actually a screw missing that that held the propeller housing against the motor housing, and the other screws were all loose. I got a new pump, since one screw was completely gone, and never had the cycling going on again.

I disagree with the thoughts that air in the line is causing the problem. Air gets purged under normal use. The pump cycles on and off ONLY when water is going somewhere.
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Old 01-21-2021, 12:35 PM   #8
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In hs first post he stated that he did not use the outside shower when he purged the system. I think he could have a considerable amount of air there. The question on purging the water heater was a follow up.
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:54 AM   #9
Kodt
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I don't agree with the air in the lines that needs to be purged theory. If you are using your water heater, it's purged as much as it can be already. The same is true with any other line in your camper.

More than likely, you have a very small drip. More than likely at the water heater drain plug or anode rod. They can (and do) drip sometimes is not tightened or if Tefflon tape is not used to help seal the threads. Also, your water heater may allow water to escape from the pressure relief valve if it builds up too much pressure by getting too hot. This is where I'd check first.


I ended up calling the good Sam tech folks and they walked me through all the common areas a drip could be happening. We got over to the anode rod and it was damp also noticed what ever they used to help seal it was flaking off around it. It might of been teflon tape that wasnt correctly put on or the paste.

Either way I'm thinking that's my drip source. I'll try and tighten it later on. I also have 90 days to bring the trailer back and have them fix stuff.
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:10 AM   #10
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I ended up calling the good Sam tech folks and they walked me through all the common areas a drip could be happening. We got over to the anode rod and it was damp also noticed what ever they used to help seal it was flaking off around it. It might of been teflon tape that wasnt correctly put on or the paste.

Either way I'm thinking that's my drip source. I'll try and tighten it later on. I also have 90 days to bring the trailer back and have them fix stuff.
I'd advise against tightening. If its flaking off it's not teflon tape. I'd remove it, clean the threads in the tank and on the anode with a wire brush then reinstall. You'll need to learn how to do it after your initial 90 days so may as well jump in!
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Old 01-22-2021, 04:48 AM   #11
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Agree with flybouy. Do it now and don't wait for Camping World. You will need a 1 and 1/16 inch socket and wrench to remove the anode rod. I have such socket and the only purpose for it is to remove the anode rod. It gets used often. Yours will too.

Sometimes when mine drips (which it does occasionally), I'll just forget it until the trip is over. I almost always drain my water heater after every trip anyway. Knowing where it's dripping and not knowing where its dripping makes all the difference in the world. Driping outside the trailer is no problem. Nothing will get hurt in the long run. Dripping in walls or on the floor is a concern, as water can rot things out over time.

Get the socket and wrench, dedicate it exclusively for your anode rod and keep in in your camper. It's one of the easier maintenance items you'll be doing.
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Old 01-22-2021, 06:08 AM   #12
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While I will "extoll the virtues" of using the right tool for any job, I don't usually have a "special for one purpose only tool" always available. So, I typically use/devise alternatives that are commonly available.

There's no need to go buy a special sized socket. You can use "commonly available tools to remove the anode rod. If you have a crescent wrench (adjustable wrench) and a wrench that will fit its handle (or another smaller size crescent wrench) you can easily remove the anode.

Adjust the crescent wrench to span the anode, place it on the top of the anode and use the other wrench to apply torque to the handle to loosen or tighten the anode. You'll need to reposition the wrench on the anode to maintain clearance as you unscrew it from the tank. Reinstalling the anode is just the opposite, but ALWAYS (did I mention always) use fresh teflon tape on the threads.

Here are a couple of photos depicting how to place the crescent wrench.
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Old 01-22-2021, 06:28 AM   #13
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Piggybacking off this topic... our trailer does this as well. Every 5 hours or so, really annoying when it's 2am...

We've noticed that when our hot water tank is heating (using propane), once the water is hot, our hot line low point drain will drip for about 2 minutes (a drip every 10 seconds or so). I'm gathering that we should to re-wrap the threads with tape and maybe that will solve our cycling pump issue?

Thanks
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Old 01-22-2021, 06:47 AM   #14
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Piggybacking off this topic... our trailer does this as well. Every 5 hours or so, really annoying when it's 2am...

We've noticed that when our hot water tank is heating (using propane), once the water is hot, our hot line low point drain will drip for about 2 minutes (a drip every 10 seconds or so). I'm gathering that we should to re-wrap the threads with tape and maybe that will solve our cycling pump issue?

Thanks
If your low point drains have caps, they will have a rubber cone washer in them. Chances are the cone washer is deformed and not sealing well. Wrapping with teflon tape may "bandaid the problem" but it won't fix it. You'll need to get new cone washers. Take the cap off, remove the washer and go to any hardware store or Lowe's/Home Depot to get replacements.

If you have twist valves or lever valves on the low point drains, you have a leaking valve and the valve body should be changed to eliminate the leak.
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Old 01-22-2021, 07:20 AM   #15
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If your low point drains have caps, they will have a rubber cone washer in them. Chances are the cone washer is deformed and not sealing well. Wrapping with teflon tape may "bandaid the problem" but it won't fix it. You'll need to get new cone washers. Take the cap off, remove the washer and go to any hardware store or Lowe's/Home Depot to get replacements.

If you have twist valves or lever valves on the low point drains, you have a leaking valve and the valve body should be changed to eliminate the leak.

Caps, we will check and replace as needed this weekend. Many thanks.
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Old 01-22-2021, 07:33 AM   #16
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Bear in mind if you dry camp and using the pump it will come on if you flush the toilet or get a drink of water at any time. Installing an accumulator tank is beneficial in holding enough water to get a drink or flush #1 without the pump coming on. It will also typically result in the water running more smoothly and not pulsing at the faucet. It can also in some cases reduce the "water hammering" or vibrations of the water line resonating and making noise as it reduces the variations in water pressure.
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