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Old 06-17-2022, 07:13 PM   #41
flybouy
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I sold cars and RV. It’s something we advised people on several times because customers had questions about warranties. There’s still a lot of people who believe they have to have oil changes done at a dealership or use only name brand OE parts or it voids their warranty. That’s just one example.
I don't see that as the same thing but like I said, I'm not an expert. I'm finished playing "hand over hand on a baseball bat" so I'll let you have the last word as I know you will.
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Old 06-17-2022, 07:31 PM   #42
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I don't see that as the same thing but like I said, I'm not an expert. I'm finished playing "hand over hand on a baseball bat" so I'll let you have the last word as I know you will.

Marshall you've seen the light!!
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Old 06-17-2022, 07:51 PM   #43
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Ok, I’ll take the last word. You guys all pat each other on the back with your holier than thou attitudes. Someone comes along andmentions or presents information that you’re not aware of and you attack them like they don’t know what their talking about. Make sarcastic comments like when are you taking them to court or why don’t you offer up your services to others who may need to take them to court. Maybe, just maybe, you’re not all knowing, maybe, just maybe someone else is familiar with something your not as a result of their background Maybe, just maybe, there might be some valuable information in what they provide that someone else can use. Maybe, just maybe you will see the light. As for not being the same thing…let’s see, use genuine OE parts or your warranty is void….use our hitch or your warranty is void…..sounds pretty damn close to the same to me.

As I mentioned earlier, if Lippert had stayed consistent saying you can’t use hitches with connection points such as the Andersen, fine, as soon as they come out with a like product and say you can only use ours not theirs, they have to justify why. The Goosebox and Gen Y fall into that same scenario. Similar hitches, one you could say is OE or built by the same manufacturer that is allowed, one that is aftermarket that is not. My initial comment was that I’d like to see their justification for it. That seems to go against the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

BTW, as I recall, this is the first time I have ever said something negative or called out another member based on their comments. Some of “you guys” make a habit of it. It’s not necessary, called for, or valuable in an exchange of information.
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Old 06-18-2022, 08:32 AM   #44
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The pdf at the bottom of this post is the Dealer Memorandum from Keystone. It clearly states that Lippert has approved ONLY the Reese Goosebox and it clearly states that Lippert will not approve chassis warranty claims if any other "gooseneck adapter hitch" is used with one of their fifth wheel chassis.

I don't see where there is any argument other than whether the Gen Y adapter hitch can circumvent the Lippert warranty exclusion UNTIL LIPPERT APPROVES IT.

That said, all the "back and forth about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act" really doesn't do anything until someone using that hitch on a Keystone trailer has a warranty denial and Lippert refuses warranty repair.

UNTIL THEN IT IS ALL SPECULATION. The real question should be: Are you the test case willing to risk your RV investment to prove a point?

So, with that said, please stop the back and forth about how "wrong it is" or "how it's the same hitch technology"...

AT THIS POINT, LIPPERT STATES THEY WILL NOT APPROVE WARRANTY REPAIRS ON ANY GOOSENECK ADAPTER EXCEPT THE REESE GOOSEBOX.

The rest is wasted breath unless someone is going to "take Lippert to task" and spend their money to get the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act to force Lippert to change their position.

If anyone has the money and time to do that, go for it. Otherwise, arguing about what's right or what's not right or what applies and what doesn't apply, is just wasted words.

Fight the system, but not on this forum: read the rules:

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This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to solely vent frustrations about services, products, vendors, or sales. Please settle your differences with the seller, provider, manufacturer, or dealer through other means but not through our community.
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File Type: pdf Dealer Memo re Goose Neck Adapter.pdf (106.8 KB, 4 views)
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Old 06-18-2022, 10:47 AM   #45
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I built my own hitch to convert it to a gooseneck. The question I have because I have never seen chains on the add on conversion hitches is, are chains needed/required? I added them when I built mine because that is what I had read when doing my research.
When I was shopping for gooseneck ball hitch for the previous Montana HC, it was between the Andersen and the PullRite 2600. Andersen had provisions for safety chains and PullRite didn't. PullRite told me it wasn't required in their state so they didn't make them. I bought the PullRite. For some reason a couple years later they told me they would send me a free adapter with holes for chains.
They did, and I used them.
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Old 06-18-2022, 11:22 AM   #46
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I built my own hitch to convert it to a gooseneck. The question I have because I have never seen chains on the add on conversion hitches is, are chains needed/required? I added them when I built mine because that is what I had read when doing my research.

I meant to respond to this the other day but forgot. Use the chains IMO. When I went with the Andersen the dealership told me I did not need chains in our state so they weren't installed. As I travel through lots of states I reviewed the laws in various states and the law varies. I saw no need to try to review state laws prior to a trip then add/remove the chains every time I crossed a state line so I installed them and they are connected before I start driving every day.
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Old 06-21-2022, 02:59 PM   #47
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Spoke to Lippert today, their statement to me concerning the Gen Y was about what I expected. “It’s similar technology as the Goosebox, we just have not conducted testing on it at this point. You are not the first to inquire about it and we have things in works to conduct testing. We are working with Gen Y because they have to pay for the testing.” I asked them if it had anything to do with the fact that they own Reese and not Gen Y. They said the partnership definitely made it easier to conduct the testing. They also stated, the doubt the RV is going to break and fall apart as a result of using the Gen Y, they just haven’t competed the testing yet.
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:40 PM   #48
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Spoke to Lippert today, their statement to me concerning the Gen Y was about what I expected. “It’s similar technology as the Goosebox, we just have not conducted testing on it at this point. You are not the first to inquire about it and we have things in works to conduct testing. We are working with Gen Y because they have to pay for the testing.” I asked them if it had anything to do with the fact that they own Reese and not Gen Y. They said the partnership definitely made it easier to conduct the testing. They also stated, the doubt the RV is going to break and fall apart as a result of using the Gen Y, they just haven’t competed the testing yet.

As I recall the above is what I was told about the Andersen....and it still isn't done and won't be given the Lippert relationship with it's own company. I'm sure the same will hold true for the Gen Y.
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:58 PM   #49
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I spoke to people at Andersen at one time as well. The impression I got was that the price for testing wasn’t worth it in their opinion. Not sure how much Lippert wanted to charge. They had done their own testing, but Lippert wouldn’t accept it. May be a similar situation…..I’m only guessing based on my impressions.
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Old 06-22-2022, 07:04 AM   #50
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I also contacted Gen Y to see if they have a time frame on the approval of their pin box by Lippert, their response is very interesting……at least to me

We are still in the process of getting our Lippert approval. There is a warranty act in place called the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. This Act basically states that a manufacturer CAN NOT VOID a warranty just because you put an aftermarket part on their product. IF there was ever an issue the manufacturer would have to prove without a doubt that it was our product that caused that specific failure! Through all of our research and customer feedback we have found that if anything, our product does not add stress to the frame, it takes it away!
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Old 06-22-2022, 08:43 AM   #51
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I also contacted Gen Y to see if they have a time frame on the approval of their pin box by Lippert, their response is very interesting……at least to me

We are still in the process of getting our Lippert approval. There is a warranty act in place called the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. This Act basically states that a manufacturer CAN NOT VOID a warranty just because you put an aftermarket part on their product. IF there was ever an issue the manufacturer would have to prove without a doubt that it was our product that caused that specific failure! Through all of our research and customer feedback we have found that if anything, our product does not add stress to the frame, it takes it away!

With Lippert saying a Gen Y voids the warranty an owner will have an uphill battle no matter about Magnuson Moss. The gooseneck/gooseneck adapters have been known, and have the reputation, to stress the frame on a 5th wheel. Those are documented with Keystone I'm sure. Magnuson Moss says that simply adding an aftermarket product can't void a warranty BUT it has nothing to do with an aftermarket part that then causes damage to other components of the vehicle/trailer.

The responsibility to prove that the part damaged the vehicle lies with the vehicle manufacturer. They will check/test it and say it was the aftermarket part (Gen Y etc.) and do so with legitimate tests they perform. The onus is now back on the owner to contest and disprove them; does he hire and pay for the legal team and specialists to try to refute what the manufacturer says? Is he going to pull out all the testing that Gen Y (or anyone else) failed to do or failed to pass when Lippert refused to add them as an approved vendor? How much money does one want to spend trying to prove that the damage was in fact caused by the aftermarket part when they say it wasn't? Not nearly worth the time, effort and money IMO. I don't think Magnuson Moss is going to help one bit when the stuff hits the fan.
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Old 06-22-2022, 10:58 AM   #52
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Everyone I spoke to was very careful in their wording. I believe it’s canned responses off a cheat sheet. At no point did anyone say it voided the warranty. The wording used is they haven’t completed the testing yet to approve the hitch. If they were going to void or disapprove the warranty claim, based on my understanding and the response from Gen Y, they would have to show testing results. The one that the rep did say without a doubt is that anything that attaches to the king pin such as the Andersen has been tested and is not approved.

I think becomes a big flex your muscle contest between manufacturers. One has to pay to get it approved, the other has to pay to prove it causes problems. It probably comes down to fighting over which one is actually going to pay and how much. Until then, they’ll be careful with how they answer the question.

I had phone conversations as well as email with Lippert. I’m my last email, I specifically asked if use of the Gen Y will void the frame warranty. I have not received a response yet. I’ll see how they answer the direct question that everyone seems to be dancing around
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:12 PM   #53
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^ I wouldn't hold my breath for an answer.
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Old 06-22-2022, 02:33 PM   #54
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I started to, then realized I was turning blue. Nothing yet, but it’s only been about 6 hours and I’m sure they’re closed. If I don’t have an answer by the end of the week, I’ll know what the answer is.
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Old 06-23-2022, 12:36 PM   #55
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I was surprised, actually heard back from Lippert today. Again they were very careful with their response. When asked if using the Gen Y would void the frame warranty if anything were to happen, they responded:

Brent,
Thank you for the question, the use of the Gen Y doesn't void your warranty by simply putting it on your unit, but if any issue come about that is a result of it, LCI would not be responsible finically.

Best,
Dave G.
Lippert Care Center Axle/Chassis Tech

Of course they’re going to be careful about using the term that so many people throw around “void”. The only thing this says to me is simply they won’t cover repairs caused by the use of the Gen Y. How they would determine/prove if the Gen Y caused the damage is unknown and I’m not going to continue asking them follow up questions. That would be something an owner would have to deal with if something were to happen.

One thing I will say about Lippert, in my experience, they have been easy to work with. As I mentioned before, I did personally see a pin box get bent by using the Andersen Ultimate. Lippert covered the pin box even though they have stated for years that the use of any hitch which requires and adapter to be bolted to the king pin is not approved. They did say they wouldn’t do it again if the customer continued to use the Andersen.
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:03 PM   #56
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I was surprised, actually heard back from Lippert today. Again they were very careful with their response. When asked if using the Gen Y would void the frame warranty if anything were to happen, they responded:

Brent,
Thank you for the question, the use of the Gen Y doesn't void your warranty by simply putting it on your unit, but if any issue come about that is a result of it, LCI would not be responsible finically.

Best,
Dave G.
Lippert Care Center Axle/Chassis Tech

Of course they’re going to be careful about using the term that so many people throw around “void”. The only thing this says to me is simply they won’t cover repairs caused by the use of the Gen Y. How they would determine/prove if the Gen Y caused the damage is unknown and I’m not going to continue asking them follow up questions. That would be something an owner would have to deal with if something were to happen.

One thing I will say about Lippert, in my experience, they have been easy to work with. As I mentioned before, I did personally see a pin box get bent by using the Andersen Ultimate. Lippert covered the pin box even though they have stated for years that the use of any hitch which requires and adapter to be bolted to the king pin is not approved. They did say they wouldn’t do it again if the customer continued to use the Andersen.

A couple of things for folks to think about on this subject in the excerpts from the Keystone letter to owners;

"There are various brands of goose neck adapters in the industry, none of which have ever been “authorized” or “approved for use” by Keystone, except for the Reese Goose Box and the Anderson Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection Goose Neck Adapter."

"Any Anderson Goose Neck Adapters installed after March 15, 2021, will not be eligible for warranty consideration. Proof of the date of the Anderson installation will be required as part of any claim submission."



The Keystone letter explicitly says Andersen Hitches prior to 3/15/2021 would be covered under normal warranty guidelines providing the owner has the proof of the date of installation.

The first paragraph from the letter says the Andersen and Goose Box were both authorized prior to 3/15/21. At that point any Andersen covered would have to have been installed before the above date. After that "Keystone" would only cover warranty issues on a Goose Box. Trying to read between the lines of the Keystone letter and what LCI is doing on the Gen Y hitch I'm thinking the Gen Y is not going to be "authorized"....which is pretty much what the note that bsmith posted says.
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:18 PM   #57
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Personally, i think it’s going to come down need. There are a lot of people using Andersen hitches and they’ve been around for several years. At some point, I’m guessing, there became a concern and a NEED for Lippert to specifically address that hitch or type of hitch. If the Gen Y creates a need, then Lippert will address it, if not, then no harm no fowl. As of right now, their stance is we won’t cover damage caused by it, but they don’t address it specifically like they do the Andersen. I even got that impression during my phone conversation where the rep specifically mentioned the Andersen as a no go, but just said we’re still testing the Gen Y.

As for the one I saw damaged, it wasn’t on a Keystone trailer. The info above is from keystone. I don’t know if GD had a similar statement or not and don’t really feel like digging to see if they do. If I remember correctly from the Keystone write up, at least my impression was that Lippert never approved the Andersen, Keystone did. Keystone changed their info to align it with Lippert.
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:29 PM   #58
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In the recesses of my memory I believe I recall a running gun battle between the owner of Andersen hitches and Lippert. In that research I believe I recall there was a very antagonistic relationship between them, by the owner of Andersen I believe, and he refused to do the dog and pony show (I think I recall that term being used) that Lippert wanted (further testing). Who knows, an owner will when they cross that bridge.
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Old 06-23-2022, 02:38 PM   #59
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There is definitely something between the two sides. Both are quick to point fingers at each other. As I said during my discussion with Lippert, they specifically pointed out Andersen, calling out them by name. I’ve also had discussions with Andersen and they’re quick to jump out and say their customers don’t need to worry about LCI warranties. Andersen has their own warranty, up to $1M if I remember correctly, to cover any problems. I’ve heard good and bad about that warranty. With my customer that had the bent pin box, Andersen did say if LCI didn’t replace it, they would. I’ll leave it at that since I’ve gotten off the rails a bit since this is about the Goosebox vs Gen Y.
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