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Old 06-21-2022, 04:17 AM   #1
HawtDogFlvrWtr
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New member and owner (Bullet Crossfire 2430BH)

We're picking our 2430BH up this coming Saturday, and are excited to start our journey. I've towed incredibly heavy dump trailers before, but never a travel trailer. Its going to be interesting to learn the in's and outs of towing a home or something that's relatively light weight.

Will likely keep things close for the first few outings, but eventually we'll be headed to SC, NC, and FL from VA. Everything I've towed before, I could see over when backing in. Little nervous about the blindspots for the first few outings. Will likely find a place to test my backing skills out of the eyes of onlookers

Are there any gotcha's we should be looking out for with a new trailer? Things that you've seen wonky after purchase that we should keep an eye on? Any suggestions for a newbie hauler?

We've taken note of all newb purchase suggestions previously mentioned here on the forums and have them slowly arriving from Amazon.
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Old 06-21-2022, 04:39 AM   #2
JRTJH
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That's a 28', 6500 pound "big square box" with beds in it.

Since it's a bunkhouse model, I'd suppose you have more than two people to occupy those beds. That means they'll also be occupying seats in the tow vehicle. Watch your weights, both for the trailer AND the tow vehicle.

You'll need to know what your trailer weighs "ready to travel", what your tow vehicle weighs "ready to travel with all passengers and cargo". Your driver's door panel will have stickers with maximum payload, maximum axle ratings and maximum vehicle weight. On many vehicles, it's very easy to overload one or more of those components with a family in the seats AND a travel trailer hitched to the vehicle.

There's far more to safe towing than just being under the "max trailer rating" on a tow vehicle.....
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:02 AM   #3
HawtDogFlvrWtr
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Very good points, and the very things I had to point out to the sales reps while they were trying to push me towards something weighing well above what I could even tow, dry.

I will take another look at the numbers tonight and make sure it's still a good option. I was operating under the assumption of 10% below max towing when the trailer was fully loaded. I will need to do the math on passenger and gear load in the vehicle also. Thank you for the knowledge bomb.
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:11 AM   #4
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Congrats on your new camper and welcome to the forums.

A word of advise.... regardless of what you are towing with, do not travel faster than the speed limit with your new trailer.

Now.... I'm not talking about the posted speed limit on the road, I'm talking about the posted speed limit on your trailer tires. You do not want to drive faster than what those tires are rated for. You may be able to drive 120 mph in your vehicle, but the tires on your trailer may be rated for only 65 or less. Never exceed this speed limit. Check your trailer tire air pressure every time you hit the road. Keep it to the max also posted on the side wall of your trailer tires.

Depending on the tire brand on your camper, you will probably want to swap those factory provided tiers with a better and more dependable brand. I've had 1 pop-up (1 blow out), 3 travel trailers, normal wear on the factory tires and then replaced, and 1 fifth wheel with a blow out when the camper was less than 6 months old and 300 miles from home!
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:24 AM   #5
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Thank you!

Yeah, In my scouring of the forums, I've read several times that you should just drive from the dealer straight to a tire shop and replace the tires because they're worthless.

I will definitely be taking it easy. I generally hang out in the slow lane unless passing. We're getting the camper to slow down and relax. I'm in no hurry.

Thank you for the insight
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by HawtDogFlvrWtr View Post
Very good points, and the very things I had to point out to the sales reps while they were trying to push me towards something weighing well above what I could even tow, dry.

I will take another look at the numbers tonight and make sure it's still a good option. I was operating under the assumption of 10% below max towing when the trailer was fully loaded. I will need to do the math on passenger and gear load in the vehicle also. Thank you for the knowledge bomb.
There's a bit of "magic math" or "disappearing pounds" used by the advertising section of every car company when it comes to "maximum trailer weight"....

Take your Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) and subtract the "Maximum trailer weight rating" and what's left, logically would be the maximum the tow vehicle could weight (to stay under the GCWR).. The car companies use an empty tow vehicle weight to obtain the maximum trailer rating. Every pound you put in the tow vehicle subtracts a pound from the trailer capability, but they don't reveal that "in easily understood terms"....

Logically, the weight of the tow vehicle AND the weight of the trailer, when combined, must weigh less than the GCWR.

It's sort of like we used to "trick our kids" by telling them we have 11 fingers.

Count from 10 down on one hand and from 1 up on the other hand. 10-9-8-7-6 and 1-2-3-4-5 6+5=11... So, we have 11 fingers, right ???? Same with the GCWR=vehicle weight+trailer weight, not GCWR-empty vehicle weight......

So, the "short version" is that it's a lot more complex (difficult to navigate) than just "10% below the max tow rating". The variables (GVWR, FAWR, RAWR, GVWR, and Max Trailer Rating all are "fixed values" but the actual weights of each component change with every trip as the cargo changes and the passenger weights change, so they remain a "moving target" and keep the variability constant (what an oxymoron that is).....
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:50 AM   #7
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That is exactly what I needed.

So my manual says GCWR is 13,100 for my 2016 Durango RT
The RT's curb weight is ~5176 lbs
Dry weight for the 2430BH is 6500??

13100 - 6500 - 5200 = 1400

Meaning 1400lbs max cargo in the Durango to stay under GCWR of the vehicle.

Is that math right or did I completely misunderstand.
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:59 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by HawtDogFlvrWtr View Post
That is exactly what I needed.

So my manual says GCWR is 13,100 for my 2016 Durango RT
The RT's curb weight is ~5176 lbs
Dry weight for the 2430BH is 6300??

13100 - 6500 - 5200 = 1400

Meaning 1400lbs max cargo in the Durango to stay under GCWR of the vehicle.

Is that math right or did I completely misunderstand.
The "dry weight for the 2460 is around 5300 (no cargo, no tank contents) but the GVWR (max weight) is 6300 and you'll almost always be very close to or over that weight so you'll need to be mindful of what you load in the trailer...

The other math, 13100-6500-5200=1400 is not correct. You don't account for any of the tongue weight of the trailer or for the hitch, both of which deduct from the payload (or add to the Durango weight) when hitched....

That's why I said it's a "fluid or variable target" and that's what the car companies leave out of the advertisements.... You can't have a payload in the Durango of 1700 pounds, put 1700 pounds of suitcases and people in it and have anything left over for the hitch and the tongue weight of the trailer. Those weights (trailer tongue and hitch) come directly off the Durange payload and what's left over is all the passengers and cargo that you can put in seats and in the back cargo space....

If you post photos of your GVWR sticker (with axle ratings) and the payload sticker (yellow decal) then someone will be happy to help you "translate those into real world capability"....
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Old 06-21-2022, 06:13 AM   #9
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Ok. I think I get it now. I'll take a picture of it after work and upload it to see. Thank you again. This is awesome info.
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Old 06-21-2022, 06:53 AM   #10
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Not to muddy the waters further but, wheel base is another major consideration when pairing a tow vehichle and trailer. A 28' trailer will max out the capability of the average 1/2 ton pick up. The shorter the wheel base the more prone to sway the rig will be.

SUVs make great people hualers but not ideal tow vehichles. I apologise for adding to the fire hose of info comming your way but not every vehichle makes for a "great vehichle" in every catagory.
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:10 AM   #11
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You're right, and I appreciate the input. I based the potential purchase based on discussions on a Durango forum related to hauling, and several of them have the same camper/Durango conbination.

Nearly all of those who tow said that 25 feet or less (box not total length), or you'll be white knuckle. The others were absurd and said 28 feet (box not total length) or less. I chose less than what they'd had success with (24 foot box), and lower total weight max for the camper. I thought I was being extra cautious, but it sounds like I still wasn't being cautious enough.

I managed to find the max occupant/cargo weight (1200lb) sticker in the door jam but can't find the GVWR sticker anywhere.
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:27 AM   #12
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That 1200 lbs doesn't include passengers or anything that the factory didn't put in it. If you really want the truth load it up like you're going camping and take it to the scales and see what it actually weights. And don't feel bad when you find out. These weights can be very deceiving, often by design. Add to that the outright lies the dealers tell to make money and some folks on some forums that will say" yes, you'll be ok" that don't have a clue or won't admit they made a wrong decision.

Most of us have been in your shoes. No one here has anything to gain other than to help others not make the uneducated decisions we've made over the years.
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:34 AM   #13
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I really appreciate it. I'll see if I can track a scale down and load it up. The more we get into this, the less I want to haul a TT now
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawtDogFlvrWtr View Post
You're right, and I appreciate the input. I based the potential purchase based on discussions on a Durango forum related to hauling, and several of them have the same camper/Durango conbination.

Nearly all of those who tow said that 25 feet or less (box not total length), or you'll be white knuckle. The others were absurd and said 28 feet (box not total length) or less. I chose less than what they'd had success with (24 foot box), and lower total weight max for the camper. I thought I was being extra cautious, but it sounds like I still wasn't being cautious enough.

I managed to find the max occupant/cargo weight (1200lb) sticker in the door jam but can't find the GVWR sticker anywhere.
From that 1200lb payload of your Durango subtract 13% of the 6300lb GVWR, max total weight of the rv, which is 800+/- lbs + 100lbs for a weight distributing hitch, which is mandatory for any TT, + the weight of everyone/everything in/on your Durango that didn't come directly from the factory.
I hate to rain on your parade, but with only 1200lb payload your Durango will be overloaded.
Will it "pull/tow" that rv? Yes! Can it safely "carry" the load of all the people & tongue weight of that rv? From the numbers you've provided, NO!
Another number you may want to look at is the max allowable tongue weight & trailer weight of the receiver hitch on the Durango. Typically a 5000lb max trailer towing = 500lb tongue weight, not sure what may be on yours, but that rv will be more than 500lbs.
The max tow weight of any vehicle & the dry weight of any rv are both useless numbers in the rv world, but are the most used numbers by salespeople & those that have never towed a rv before.
You now have the numbers to correctly calculate your towing capabilities,what you do with the information is up to you.
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:42 AM   #15
HawtDogFlvrWtr
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Thank you. That's all I needed to know. It looks like this vehicle/trailer combo isn't going to happen.
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Old 06-21-2022, 08:19 AM   #16
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Thank you. That's all I needed to know. It looks like this vehicle/trailer combo isn't going to happen.
You did the right thing by doing your due diligence. We all too frequently see folks that come here seeking a "sure, it'll be no problem " and get angry when told facts and folks that fall into the trap and ask "what can I do now to stop the sway". It's a whole lot easier (and cheaper) to prevent making a mistake than it is to correct one.
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Old 06-21-2022, 08:33 AM   #17
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For anyone else following along at home. This is the sticker from the rv, if you're trying to do a combo on this same trailer. Best to have all of the numbers

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Old 06-21-2022, 08:35 AM   #18
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HawtDogFlvrWtr, Great that you actually did due diligence prior to making a decision on a camper. Most do not or rationalize dragging a camper far too large by claiming they have modified their tow vehicle. You can't modify the payload the factory assigned. Period.

If you have the camping bug and are not too far upside-down on payments, perhaps a more appropriate tow vehicle for dragging a camper is in order. There are 1/2 tons that are adequate as they are configured for a payload of upwards of 2000 lbs but consider a heavy duty truck and keep in mind the payload of a 3/4 ton truck isn't a whole lot greater than a 1/2 ton but will generally be adequate for a bumper pull camper. If you ever think you would like to pull a 5th wheel, I advise skipping the 3/4 ton and go right to a one ton. I know it sounds like a tremendous jump but the one ton is just configured for more payload than a 3/4 ton and the same size and otherwise the ride is about the same.

In any of your attempts to ascertain if you can pull a bumper pull camper, take the gross weight (this has already been said but want to emphasize) and take 13 percent of it; add hitch weight, passenger weight and stuff in your truck and you will have the pin weight. You are looking at a VERY lightweight bumper pull which may not be fun if you feel like a sardine in that camper.
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Old 06-21-2022, 08:42 AM   #19
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Another thing I didn't see mentioned, and it seems simple but is a huge thing...towing mirrors. Lots of folks buy 1/2 tons or smaller like the Durango that come with stock mirrors. You can't see much of anything with stock mirrors and a trailer behind you; you are pretty much towing blind to anything behind you. I used to have to zig/zag as I drove along to see behind me - that is NOT good on a busy highway with everybody passing you going 20-30mph faster than you are.

I've seen folks add "towing" mirrors that strap to the factory mirrors. I've tried them (for one trip) and found they're useless because they bounce and vibrate so much.

As mentioned your weights will be upside down it appears then the short wheelbase really exacerbates the problem. With a combo like that it's always good....until it isn't; then the question becomes if you can recover...or not. Good on you for digging into the facts of the matter BEFORE committing to the purchase and good luck in finding something that works for you. I've found that vehicle specific sites always seem to endow that particular vehicle with inflated capabilities...the term "beast" comes up quite often. Folks here try to keep things in perspective no matter what you drive and keep you safe.
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Old 06-27-2022, 01:13 AM   #20
Dave fromRockcliffeTheSea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawtDogFlvrWtr View Post
We're picking our 2430BH up this coming Saturday, and are excited to start our journey. I've towed incredibly heavy dump trailers before, but never a travel trailer. Its going to be interesting to learn the in's and outs of towing a home or something that's relatively light weight.

Will likely keep things close for the first few outings, but eventually we'll be headed to SC, NC, and FL from VA. Everything I've towed before, I could see over when backing in. Little nervous about the blindspots for the first few outings. Will likely find a place to test my backing skills out of the eyes of onlookers

Are there any gotcha's we should be looking out for with a new trailer? Things that you've seen wonky after purchase that we should keep an eye on? Any suggestions for a newbie hauler?

We've taken note of all newb purchase suggestions previously mentioned here on the forums and have them slowly arriving from Amazon.
Try and arrange it so when you are backing up you are turning to the drivers side so you can see the trailer out the left hand window not the right hand mirror. Also, have someone watching behind and on the blind side and tell them to yell really loud if something is going wrong. Also when you start to leave have someone outside watching. It's amazing what you can forget to do. (Stairs, jacks still down, etc.)
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