Engine tinkerers, beware

[JRTJH]

I had a 93 F250 7.3l Navistar diesel. You couldn't start it in the garage with the garage door closed and it was the same with out 99 Navistar diesel, only it had a turbo. Guaranteed black stench on everything within 60 seconds. Loud, dirty, always had a black carbon streak on the curb side of our Holiday Rambler and often after a long hard pull, we could smell the diesel stench inside the trailer at every rest stop/overnight campsite.

Fast forward to today, we tow with a 2015 F250 6.7l Ford diesel. Starting it in the garage is almost the same as starting the DW's Escape. No smoke, no diesel clatter, garage door open or closed, no black cloud and no diesel stench. I have not yet (45,000 miles) had any "black diesel streak" on the trailer, no diesel stench in either the truck or the trailer. I will say, however, that it's not uncommon to find dirty diesel pump nozzles and oily dirt around them, so I usually put on a rubber exam glove to refuel, watch where I step and toss the glove when I'm done.

As for DEF, I buy mine at WalMart, 2.5 gallon containers and in 45,000 miles have used maybe 15 containers (around 37.5 gallons of DEF). That equates to around 1 gallon every 1200 miles. At $4 a gallon ($10 for the 2.5 gallon container) that comes out to around $0.003 per mile (for those not familiar with decimals, that's about 3/10 of a penny per mile. For me, a cheap price not to have black soot on everything in the garage and to be able to eat lunch at a rest stop without smelling diesel exhaust inside the trailer. YMMV

[ChuckS]

The DEF and SCR system is ok but if a part goes out in the system and no longer under warranty the backyard mechanic is kinda screwed.. and if the system has an issue on the road you go into reduced power mode until repaired..

Glad I don’t have either on my 2007 diesel.. it doesn’t smoke, very quite, and no black marks on the fifth wheel when towing...

I do carry a good scan tool that will read and clear any faults on my diesel should they occur.. Went into limp mode once and that puts you down to max speed of 25 mph... the MAP sensor had a tad of oil residue build up.. one 10mm bolt to remove, wiped off sensor, cleared error on OBD2 and all normal from there..

I highly recommend anyone with a diesel carry a good scan tool with them. You will only need it that “one time” in the middle of nowhere to pay for itself

Here is a nice read for those that wanna know more....

http://www.powerstrokehub.com/6.7-po...emissions.html

[hornet28]

Just having a diesel tuned doesn't mean black sooty smoke. Some of the younger guys are all for "rolling coal" and some tuners oblige them. But not every tuner is into that. For those of you with the newer trucks my understanding is it's next to if not impossible to go in and change the tuning

[77cruiser]

Originally Posted by hornet28

Just having a diesel tuned doesn't mean black sooty smoke. Some of the younger guys are all for "rolling coal" and some tuners oblige them. But not every tuner is into that. For those of you with the newer trucks my understanding is it's next to if not impossible to go in and change the tuning

EXACTLY, I don't want or need smoke just power. I have EFI live tunes & use a 30 hp tune for towing. Mine doesn't smoke except for a little puff when I first step on it. I don't mind the smell of diesel, unlike some, I just weird I guess.

[flybouy]

Seems like every time the EPA dictates new emission standards it takes the automakers a few years to make it work. The end of the 1960's it was the ridiculous smog pumps. Pre 1972 Ford 460 cid was like 365 hp, after '72 it was 220. Fuel mileage was also atrocious. When lead free fuel was mandated many cars had valve issues because the lead was the lubricant. I remember the original catalytic converters clogging up with regularity. Many garages would take a length of rebar and knock out the catalyst to keep the engine from burning up. When they started on the diesels the regen cycles were killer and created a lot of smoke, destroyed mileage, and often forced you to drive extra miles to clear out the issue or face a build of carbon in the particulate filter and costing thousands to fix.
As most government mandates I think the intent is good but the implementation sucks.
As for enforcement, again it seems to me the feds take the easy way out. I get that it,s bad to have a bunch of 18 wheelers driving millions of miles polluting but aren't there bigger fish out there? Seems like every heavy rain the Baltimore sewer system overflows and dumps MILLIONS of gallons of raw sewage into the Chesapeake Bay. Where's the EPA then? Last week the Delaware River bridge was shut down for hours because the "processing plant" beside the north end of the bridge released so much flammable vapors they feared explosions. On the west end of the Francis Scott Key Bridge around Baltimore the WR Grace company had so many white powdery cloud releases that they installed warning signs along the road with flashing lights to warn drivers.
I know this is long winded and my point is this. Not every diesel driver is running a tune so the truck looks like a steam locomotive but is just trying to improve a bad implementation of a good intention. YMHO

[hornet28]

77cruiser do you have a DSP5 switch with a 60hp light tow? Do you have a turbo brake in tow haul for 30hp and 60hp tunes?

[Pull Toy]

Not calling anyone out, or trying to steal the thread.... BUT based on an earlier posting... please don't start your gas or diesel vehicle in the garage with the door closed! If you absolutely have to keep the door closed due to weather conditions, put an approved air tight exhaust hose and port, to vent gasses to the outside, and install a CO2 monitor. Not only could you save a life... your garage storage areas will stay cleaner.

Eighteen years as an EMT / First Responder, way too many horror stories!

Good Luck,

[hornet28]

excellent advise

[77cruiser]

Originally Posted by hornet28

77cruiser do you have a DSP5 switch with a 60hp light tow? Do you have a turbo brake in tow haul for 30hp and 60hp tunes?

Yes, I have 15hp -30heavy tow - 50 light tow-75 -100. No turbo brake I wish but it's a LB7 no variable vane turbo.

[hornet28]

I have enhanced stock, 30. 60, 90 and 120hp. The 30 and 60 have turbo brake when in tow haul. No deletes on mine just the tunes and 4" performance exhaust from down pipe back

[Frank G]

I enjoy getting up in the morning to fresh clean air and crystal clear water flowing in the river in the back yard. It has not always been that way. The road to cleaning up the mess we created has not always been straight, easy or free. The Eagles now nest and feed along the river and we see more Pheasants every year, lets not return to the ways of the past

[Badbart56]

With 400 hp and 800 ft/lbs I see no need to delete the emissions on this truck. But if I have the system fail I'm likely to delete. I can pay less than $2000 to delete vs over $4000 to replace the DPF and all that goes with it. Just sayin'.....

[JRTJH]

I agree with Frank. Being able to take my grandson (and soon, my great grand daughter) fishing and have them drop rocks over the side of the boat and watch those rocks "bomb the trout" on the bottom is priceless. There's just no way I want to contribute willingly to making those memories disappear. I'm good with the 440HP/860 LB torque and much prefer that with emissions control than being forced into a smaller SUV with a tiny camper in tow.

To me, "cheating the system" just doesn't seem like the right thing to do to my grandkids and their grandkids.....

[Old Mustanger]

I don't know about other brands but Ford's regen process is pain. You get a 3 second message "cleaning exhaust filter" and per the manual you need to drive at least 20 minutes for it to complete. If you miss that message you have no idea it is happening and may end up shutting the truck off with an incomplete regen, too many of them and you wind up with a clogged filter that costs $4,000 or so to replace. Why they couldn't let that message stay up until the regen is completed is beyond my comprehension.

[JRTJH]

I also wonder why Ford didn't include some means to determine when the truck is in regen and when it isn't. It's frustrating to wonder, so I've more or less learned to leave my instrument panel display on "instantaneous mileage". Typically it ranges from (non-towing) 18-22 MPG. When in regen, it drops significantly to 13-15. So, for me, when I glance at the instantaneous mileage and it's less than 16, I'm pretty sure the truck is in regen, so if I have an optional destination, that's a good time to skip heading straight home and take the long way around. Within a few miles/minutes, the "instantaneous mileage" goes back up to 18-22 and I feel pretty certain that the regen is finished.

Why Ford didn't include a visual indicator??? Over on the Powerstroke forum, speculation is they wanted the system to be completely behind the scenes and not a user monitored function.... For me, if that's true, then Ford failed.....

There are several OBD plug-in monitors that will give you the regen status, but I haven't been frustrated enough to go buy one...... YET..... LOL

[travelin texans]

My GMC/Duramax the regen is completely unnoticeable, no message, no loss of mileage, just does it. Now have 130k on the truck, no DPF issues, 1 recall on DEF tank & pump & approximately 2.5 gals of DEF every 3500+/- miles.

[Javi]

Originally Posted by Old Mustanger

I don't know about other brands but Ford's regen process is pain. You get a 3 second message "cleaning exhaust filter" and per the manual you need to drive at least 20 minutes for it to complete. If you miss that message you have no idea it is happening and may end up shutting the truck off with an incomplete regen, too many of them and you wind up with a clogged filter that costs $4,000 or so to replace. Why they couldn't let that message stay up until the regen is completed is beyond my comprehension.

My '15 has all that, but when I cut it off too many times it will give me a message of DRIVE TO CLEAN EXHAUST FILTER which does not disappear until the cycle is finished.

So far (50K) the only problem I've had was the DEF heater which was replaced under warranty last week..

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by Old Mustanger

I don't know about other brands but Ford's regen process is pain. You get a 3 second message "cleaning exhaust filter" and per the manual you need to drive at least 20 minutes for it to complete. If you miss that message you have no idea it is happening and may end up shutting the truck off with an incomplete regen, too many of them and you wind up with a clogged filter that costs $4,000 or so to replace. Why they couldn't let that message stay up until the regen is completed is beyond my comprehension.

There used to be one. Our 2009 F-350 originally had a message saying “cleaning exhaust filter” that would stay until regenning was complete. I liked that a lot because I knew exactly how long it was taking, and how long I needed to drive extra if I was close to home - a few times I did take a “scenic drive” just to complete the regen if necessary. But, a system update that was required by Ford in 2010? 2011? deleted the message staying up the whole time. Ticked me off so I went back to Ford to ask them to undo that particular “feature”. Was told it couldn’t be done. From then on, message would only flash at beginning of regen process. I asked why the change and was told too many Ford customers were complaining about the message staying up the whole regen and they couldn’t read any other information on the display if they wanted to.

Same issue for our 2016 F-350, message only is up for a few seconds. So, hubby got me an OBD-2 plug in and a phone app so I can see when the truck is regenning, and I can monitor the exhaust gas temp. Makes me a happy girl.

[vampress_me]

Originally Posted by flybouy

Seems like every time the EPA dictates new emission standards it takes the automakers a few years to make it work. The end of the 1960's it was the ridiculous smog pumps. Pre 1972 Ford 460 cid was like 365 hp, after '72 it was 220. Fuel mileage was also atrocious. When lead free fuel was mandated many cars had valve issues because the lead was the lubricant. I remember the original catalytic converters clogging up with regularity. Many garages would take a length of rebar and knock out the catalyst to keep the engine from burning up. When they started on the diesels the regen cycles were killer and created a lot of smoke, destroyed mileage, and often forced you to drive extra miles to clear out the issue or face a build of carbon in the particulate filter and costing thousands to fix.
As most government mandates I think the intent is good but the implementation sucks.
As for enforcement, again it seems to me the feds take the easy way out. I get that it,s bad to have a bunch of 18 wheelers driving millions of miles polluting but aren't there bigger fish out there? Seems like every heavy rain the Baltimore sewer system overflows and dumps MILLIONS of gallons of raw sewage into the Chesapeake Bay. Where's the EPA then? Last week the Delaware River bridge was shut down for hours because the "processing plant" beside the north end of the bridge released so much flammable vapors they feared explosions. On the west end of the Francis Scott Key Bridge around Baltimore the WR Grace company had so many white powdery cloud releases that they installed warning signs along the road with flashing lights to warn drivers.
I know this is long winded and my point is this. Not every diesel driver is running a tune so the truck looks like a steam locomotive but is just trying to improve a bad implementation of a good intention. YMHO

Thank you! Very well said, flybouy!

[Javi]

Some of ya'll need to read the diesel supplement manual.