Ford 7.3 Godzilla Engine

[wired1236]

I'm one of those who has a F350 on order and also trying to decide where to go so I looked up the towing, payload and other stats on the F350, 250 and differences between the 7.3L vs 6.7L-D. What I found is some very confusing stats. I suggest looking at them closely cause what I found is a bit odd.

Now I get every truck is different knowing all the hundreds of configs you can get so their sheet doesn't exactly reflect or won't match the truck's sticker when you get it but these are their guidelines. I'm a newbie to the site so not sure if this link will work but here is the Ford guidelines for 2023.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...uide_Nov22.pdf

1st thing was the Tremor package really changes your limits.

One of the other interesting things is the Max cargo listed on their stat sheet (keep in mind they do list it as the "max cargo weight with slide in camper" meaning you may have to add some options to get there. If you look at the F350 6.7 vs 7.3 is that the engine doesn't really change the max cargo payload very much. Now there are many disclaimers and options that you have to comb through so be careful of the numbers before you make comparisons so I guess my point is, make sure you pull up this sheet before making claims. It's complicated enough that I made a spreadsheet to help me nail down just what I'm looking for. You may be surprised at what you find.

[NH_Bulldog]

I would use caution with that guide. It is simply a brochure with very general information, which I think you recognized.

One example of the pitfalls with this document is that in order to get the max-payload/towing package, it forces the diesel engine, so that gives you a max package and $10-$12k for that 100 lb. increase over a gas engine without the max package. If you haven’t done so already, you might want to review the Ford order guides for additional detail and clarity. Some features are available now in Job 1, but many other items are not available later in the year in Job 2. This is also going to be an abbreviated model year, so some features may never make it into a 2023 production model.

[Maineiacs]

Have over 20K miles on mine and love it. Tows like a charm.

[JRTJH]

Wired1236,

Go back to that "Ford Towing Guide" and look on page 14. You'll see that the truck GVWR (starting point for payload) is different between the 7.3L and the 6.7L engine options. For the past 3 or 4 years, Ford has been increasing the GVWR for diesel trucks over the GVWR for gas trucks to compensate for the increased weight of the diesel engine, in an attempt to eliminate the marked payload penalty on the diesel's heavier weight.

So, when you look at the "charts" you'll get the impression that the payloads are similar with "only a 100 pound payload difference" but in reality, there's also a 400-600 pound increase in GVWR to "get to that payload difference"...

Plus, there's the annotated footnote that ALL data is derived from the truck options selected to achieve chart data. What that means is the "best payload" is from an XL truck with few options while the "best towing" is from a longer wheelbase truck with all required towing options (which changes the "best payload") and the "best camper carrying" will require reducing the best towing and is not available on specific models.

In other words, the starting point for calculations is NOT THE SAME and it's impossible to use the chart to get an "apples to apples" comparison. Best you can get from that chart (without tearing it apart and rebuilding it) is an "apples to figs" comparison....

[wired1236]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

I would use caution with that guide. It is simply a brochure with very general information, which I think you recognized.

One example of the pitfalls with this document is that in order to get the max-payload/towing package, it forces the diesel engine, so that gives you a max package and $10-$12k for that 100 lb. increase over a gas engine without the max package. If you haven’t done so already, you might want to review the Ford order guides for additional detail and clarity. Some features are available now in Job 1, but many other items are not available later in the year in Job 2. This is also going to be an abbreviated model year, so some features may never make it into a 2023 production model.

Well you do get more than 100lbs of additional payload for $12k. Not to say that's a good deal but you do increase your towing capacities too as you said. Also, Tremor packages throw it off in different ways. I noticed (and I think I'm correct) it's really odd in that on the 7.3L, you actually get more 5th wheel towing capacity with the Tremor vs non Tremor...but your gain in the reverse with the 6.7,,,explain that one? I'm afraid to even ask the dealer as I'm pretty sure they can't explain it either.

And oh ya...I've poured over so many times that I have water coming out my ears! Maybe that's the problem? I know the differences between job 1 and 2...I'm in job 2 which is to only say I may get a truck this year..or may not....

Why do they make finding and figuring all this out so difficult? Gone are the days of "You can have any color you like as long as it's black".

[wired1236]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

Wired1236,

Go back to that "Ford Towing Guide" and look on page 14. You'll see that the truck GVWR (starting point for payload) is different between the 7.3L and the 6.7L engine options. For the past 3 or 4 years, Ford has been increasing the GVWR for diesel trucks over the GVWR for gas trucks to compensate for the increased weight of the diesel engine, in an attempt to eliminate the marked payload penalty on the diesel's heavier weight.

So, when you look at the "charts" you'll get the impression that the payloads are similar with "only a 100 pound payload difference" but in reality, there's also a 400-600 pound increase in GVWR to "get to that payload difference"...

Plus, there's the annotated footnote that ALL data is derived from the truck options selected to achieve chart data. What that means is the "best payload" is from an XL truck with few options while the "best towing" is from a longer wheelbase truck with all required towing options (which changes the "best payload") and the "best camper carrying" will require reducing the best towing and is not available on specific models.

In other words, the starting point for calculations is NOT THE SAME and it's impossible to use the chart to get an "apples to apples" comparison. Best you can get from that chart (without tearing it apart and rebuilding it) is an "apples to figs" comparison....

Thanks and agreed! Like any "data" IMO, you can make it say whatever point you want to make.

[travelin texans]

Originally Posted by wired1236

Well you do get more than 100lbs of additional payload for $12k. Not to say that's a good deal but you do increase your towing capacities too as you said. Also, Tremor packages throw it off in different ways. I noticed (and I think I'm correct) it's really odd in that on the 7.3L, you actually get more 5th wheel towing capacity with the Tremor vs non Tremor...but your gain in the reverse with the 6.7,,,explain that one? I'm afraid to even ask the dealer as I'm pretty sure they can't explain it either.

And oh ya...I've poured over so many times that I have water coming out my ears! Maybe that's the problem? I know the differences between job 1 and 2...I'm in job 2 which is to only say I may get a truck this year..or may not....

Why do they make finding and figuring all this out so difficult? Gone are the days of "You can have any color you like as long as it's black".

The biggest issue with the Raptor & Tremor is they were built as "offroad" type vehicles. Their taller than normal stance & long travel suspension isn't rely conducive to towing, but OK off the pavement.
They were built for a specific purpose & it ain't towing!

[wired1236]

Originally Posted by travelin texans

The biggest issue with the Raptor & Tremor is they were built as "offroad" type vehicles. Their taller than normal stance & long travel suspension isn't rely conducive to towing, but OK off the pavement.
They were built for a specific purpose & it ain't towing!

Just got off the phone with my dealer and he too thought it was odd in that the 7.3L option, the Tremor has a HIGHER 5th wheel towing capacity..??..?? but a lower max tongue load. Anyway...point is like others have said, be careful of your assumptions as well as Fords documentation. It's hard to make a decision even when you think you have all the information.

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by wired1236

Just got off the phone with my dealer and he too thought it was odd in that the 7.3L option, the Tremor has a HIGHER 5th wheel towing capacity..??..?? but a lower max tongue load. Anyway...point is like others have said, be careful of your assumptions as well as Fords documentation. It's hard to make a decision even when you think you have all the information.

honestly car dealers are just salesman or woman….they know about SALES …it doesn’t matter what they are selling,could have been vacuum cleaners last week.

watch THE OFFICE with Robert California, describe sales in his hiring interview.

i think the tremor listed 4-30 gears and that’s why it has higher capacity and possibly the tires on the tremor package are higher load rating

edit: i agree it shouldn’t be a good contender for a tow vehicle over a stock suspension

[JRTJH]

Dodge built the Power Wagon to perform a specific function. Off Road "baja runs"... Some models of the power Wagon have as little as 800-900 pounds of payload. That's "barely front seat passenger weights" in some applications. But the Power Wagon is "great at what it does" (and sucks carrying a camper or towing a fifth wheel). Ford's Tremor is built to compete with the Power Wagon, not built to carry a camper or tow a fifth wheel... Can the Power Wagon and Tremor carry a camper ??? Yep, but with dismal results.

It's not "just Ford". Imagine buying a chain saw and forgetting to buy gas. Without the "funny noise a chain saw makes" it's just a "hood ornament" on a Power Wagon or a Tremor....

Buy the right tool for the job at hand. RVing isn't a "strong suit" for a "baja built truck"....

Maybe Ford is doing us a "favor" by making it difficult to decipher the charts ????? Confusion builds mistakes and Ford can "blame us for buying what we do"

[jasin1]

Originally Posted by wired1236

Just got off the phone with my dealer and he too thought it was odd in that the 7.3L option, the Tremor has a HIGHER 5th wheel towing capacity..??..?? but a lower max tongue load. Anyway...point is like others have said, be careful of your assumptions as well as Fords documentation. It's hard to make a decision even when you think you have all the information.

also the fifth wheel load is more balanced, using the front and rear suspension combined… the conventional towing tongue weight may affect the off-road suspension in a more pronounced way with tongue weight causing a nose high attitude.
that could be why it has a higher fifth wheel tow capacity

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by wired1236

Just got off the phone with my dealer and he too thought it was odd in that the 7.3L option, the Tremor has a HIGHER 5th wheel towing capacity..??..?? but a lower max tongue load. Anyway...point is like others have said, be careful of your assumptions as well as Fords documentation. It's hard to make a decision even when you think you have all the information.

You have to watch out for those kinds of statement/stats. You note "towing capacity" which will have nothing to do with actual ability to carry and handle an RV. The Tremor, Raptor, Power Wagons of the world have specific mechanical attributes to make them good at what they were designed for; whoop de doos, pre runner stuff, off road. Those attributes have a bearing on the power they have, drive train etc. which affects how much power they have for PULLING, hence towing capacity. The same attributes that make them good for the above make them much less than ideal as a tow vehicle because they lower the payload substantially which means they can't CARRY as much on their on their modified chassis/drivetrain.

[NH_Bulldog]

This past weekend I had a 2,000 lb. pallet of wood heating pellets set in the bed of the truck centered over the axle and my 9 year old daughter’s eyes got huge when she saw how much the truck dropped in the back. I had 1,500 lbs more “capacity”, but the sag made me pause and wonder if the FX4 offroad package had more give than a standard model. I can almost picture a Tremor’s rear bumper hitting the ground with the same load. My biggest take-away from this is to get a set of airbags before I get a 5th wheel.

[rhagfo]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

This past weekend I had a 2,000 lb. pallet of wood heating pellets set in the bed of the truck centered over the axle and my 9 year old daughter’s eyes got huge when she saw how much the truck dropped in the back. I had 1,500 lbs more “capacity”, but the sag made me pause and wonder if the FX4 offroad package had more give than a standard model. I can almost picture a Tremor’s rear bumper hitting the ground with the same load. My biggest take-away from this is to get a set of airbags before I get a 5th wheel.

F250’s are know for soft rear springs.

[Badbart56]

Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog

This past weekend I had a 2,000 lb. pallet of wood heating pellets set in the bed of the truck centered over the axle and my 9 year old daughter’s eyes got huge when she saw how much the truck dropped in the back. I had 1,500 lbs more “capacity”, but the sag made me pause and wonder if the FX4 offroad package had more give than a standard model. I can almost picture a Tremor’s rear bumper hitting the ground with the same load. My biggest take-away from this is to get a set of airbags before I get a 5th wheel.

Both the 250 and 350 SRW models sit a good bit higher than my dually. Mine is a 4X4 (not FX4) but the suspension is nowhere near the same. I get very little sag even with the 18,000 Fuzion loaded on the back. I've been in rest areas and RV parks and see the SRW trucks looking like they're overloaded. But then, they probably are.....

[JRTJH]

The SuperDuty SRW trucks have long, LONG, extra LONG rear springs. The purpose is to absorb much of the "buckboard ride" through spring flex rather than seat bottom flex... The intent was, as I understand it, to "computer select spring packages" that will support the load using overload springs so that when not loaded, the "longer springs give a smoother ride because the overload springs are not engaged"....

Also remember that Ford trucks have a 2" or 3" lift on the rear to give the truck a "raked look". Some people buy a front end lift kit to level the truck, making the rear "really, REALLY sag when loaded.

I'd suspect that when you put that pallet of pellets in the back, the truck was "just a tad bit past level" but based on how it looks when not loaded, appeared to be "dramatically lower in the rear.

Measure the front bumper/rear bumper, then load it and I'd guess you will only see a couple inches of "rear sag when loaded".. It just looks like a lot more because of the unloaded rake.

[markcee]

I think (but didn't verify) that the F350 also has an overload leaf in the rear which the F250 does not have.

[wired1236]

Originally Posted by jasin1

honestly car dealers are just salesman or woman….they know about SALES …it doesn’t matter what they are selling,could have been vacuum cleaners last week.

watch THE OFFICE with Robert California, describe sales in his hiring interview.

i think the tremor listed 4-30 gears and that’s why it has higher capacity and possibly the tires on the tremor package are higher load rating

edit: i agree it shouldn’t be a good contender for a tow vehicle over a stock suspension

Lucky for me, that's not the case. He's been my commercial dealer for more than a decade. The Tremor has 3.55 gears opposed to 3.71.

[Keystoned]

Originally Posted by markcee

I think (but didn't verify) that the F350 also has an overload leaf in the rear which the F250 does not have.

This is true...but it takes a lot of travel before they engage.
And the new trucks are a lot taller than the old ones. In my case going from my 2000 F250 to the 2022 F350 godzilla, the bed was 2.5" taller and the bed rails were 4" taller. I will now have to lift my 5th wheel to counteract the too nose high stance of the trailer.

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Keystoned

This is true...but it takes a lot of travel before they engage.
And the new trucks are a lot taller than the old ones. In my case going from my 2000 F250 to the 2022 F350 godzilla, the bed was 2.5" taller and the bed rails were 4" taller. I will now have to lift my 5th wheel to counteract the too nose high stance of the trailer.

Everytime I get worked up thinking I'm going to get me a new Ford with that 7.3 I am drawn back to reality with the above. I have no use for a truck with a bed, or bed rails, that high. What purpose they serve I don't have the foggiest but they aren't handy for towing an RV or for a shorter person trying to get in/out of the bed.