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Old 07-11-2020, 05:54 AM   #1
wiredgeorge
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Eco-Boost guys eat your hearts out

Well, the Eco-boost is semi-obsolete with the onset of the POWERBOOST! 12K towing capability! All the article talked about is a short bed, crew cab 4x4 and I bet that 1/2 ton will have a 1000 lb payload like most. MARKETING HYPE prevails. Bet they have commercials of this new F150 dragging the Queen Mary down the road. A hybrid truck? How did that work for Chevy/GM? I just can't understand why the need for more power if your truck really can't be used truck-like (towing / hauling). The new F150 does have 11 grille options if I read right. Now there is an upgrade.



From Road & Track:



The biggest change is the new PowerBoost hybrid powertrain option, the first true hybrid truck since GM's ill-fated Silverado and Sierra hybrids. But this isn't just the eco-friendly option; by pairing a 35-kilowatt electric motor to the already potent EcoBoost 3.5-liter turbocharged V-6, Ford says the PowerBoost will offer more power than any other light-duty truck. Cruising range should exceed 700 miles and the tow rating will be above 12,000 pounds. It'll also be available on every trim and in both rear-wheel- and four-wheel-drive configurations.
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:15 AM   #2
travelin texans
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Well, the Eco-boost is semi-obsolete with the onset of the POWERBOOST! 12K towing capability! All the article talked about is a short bed, crew cab 4x4 and I bet that 1/2 ton will have a 1000 lb payload like most. MARKETING HYPE prevails. Bet they have commercials of this new F150 dragging the Queen Mary down the road. A hybrid truck? How did that work for Chevy/GM? I just can't understand why the need for more power if your truck really can't be used truck-like (towing / hauling). The new F150 does have 11 grille options if I read right. Now there is an upgrade.



From Road & Track:



The biggest change is the new PowerBoost hybrid powertrain option, the first true hybrid truck since GM's ill-fated Silverado and Sierra hybrids. But this isn't just the eco-friendly option; by pairing a 35-kilowatt electric motor to the already potent EcoBoost 3.5-liter turbocharged V-6, Ford says the PowerBoost will offer more power than any other light-duty truck. Cruising range should exceed 700 miles and the tow rating will be above 12,000 pounds. It'll also be available on every trim and in both rear-wheel- and four-wheel-drive configurations.
I can see an entire new series of threads of newbies that have been bitten by this latest hype asking about towing their 35' 5th wheel with this "ALL POWERFUL" new Ford & being pissed at the "weight police" here for telling them it ain't up to the task.
We've got forum subject matter garauntied now for the foreseeable future! THANK YOU FORD!
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:54 AM   #3
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Danny not to worry, Toyota will send us "newbie weight police fodder" if Ford doesn't.
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Old 07-11-2020, 10:09 AM   #4
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Another feature in that article that hasn't been commented about is the "built in optional generators. There are three options, a 2KW, 2.4KW and 7.2KW generators. My guess is that Ford has found a way to "tap the electrical charging system on the engine to produce "usable power" for other purposes.

One nice thing about that, if you can keep your truck idling for prolonged time frames, is at least the exhaust noise on a F150 is quieter than the typical construction generator. The last couple of F150's I walked by that were idling sounded more like a "whisper" than a "popcorn machine"...

Now, if Ford starts incorporating that "generator option" in the SuperDuty line, it will solve much of the "residential refrigerator/air conditioner/interior heat" problems with the current "inverter/residential refrigerator power" and "don't operate the refrigerator is the cabin temperature is above 110F"...

It would also make for a much more comfortable stop at a rest area for lunch and in having a cool trailer when stopping for the evening at a campground.
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Old 07-11-2020, 12:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Well, the Eco-boost is semi-obsolete with the onset of the POWERBOOST! 12K towing capability! All the article talked about is a short bed, crew cab 4x4 and I bet that 1/2 ton will have a 1000 lb payload like most. MARKETING HYPE prevails. Bet they have commercials of this new F150 dragging the Queen Mary down the road. A hybrid truck? How did that work for Chevy/GM? I just can't understand why the need for more power if your truck really can't be used truck-like (towing / hauling). The new F150 does have 11 grille options if I read right. Now there is an upgrade.



From Road & Track:



The biggest change is the new PowerBoost hybrid powertrain option, the first true hybrid truck since GM's ill-fated Silverado and Sierra hybrids. But this isn't just the eco-friendly option; by pairing a 35-kilowatt electric motor to the already potent EcoBoost 3.5-liter turbocharged V-6, Ford says the PowerBoost will offer more power than any other light-duty truck. Cruising range should exceed 700 miles and the tow rating will be above 12,000 pounds. It'll also be available on every trim and in both rear-wheel- and four-wheel-drive configurations.
My question is how did they get the queen Mary on the trailer?
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Old 07-11-2020, 12:28 PM   #6
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Ford had some hybrid Escort wagons as I recall when I worked there in 2011-2012. IIRC they were approaching the magical 7 year mark were the battery was due to be replaced. They wouldn't even accept them for trade. The battery cost in excess of $4000 I believe.
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Old 07-11-2020, 01:10 PM   #7
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Ford had some hybrid Escort wagons as I recall when I worked there in 2011-2012. IIRC they were approaching the magical 7 year mark were the battery was due to be replaced. They wouldn't even accept them for trade. The battery cost in excess of $4000 I believe.
Same with any electric or gas/electric hybrid... The battery cost is a significant part of the overall "upcharge for the technology"... Even in golf carts, if it's an older cart with old batteries it's worth about $1000 less than the same cart with "brand new batteries"....

Think any fifth wheel with a GP 24 vs a 10 unit lithium battery pack. That's $59 vs $10,000 in battery cost difference....

I wonder how much of the "federal government rebate/income tax deductions" Ford is trying to capitalize on in purchase price/rebates/tax incentives" in the "sticker price" of those hybrid trucks ??? Cheaper now, costs a "king's ransom" when new batteries are needed.....
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Old 07-11-2020, 03:00 PM   #8
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My question is how did they get the queen Mary on the trailer?
The truck manufacturers keep upping their tow ratings then their advertising has them towing the QM, million pound rail cars or space shuttle none of which are putting weight any on the truck but using tow straps so payload doesn't come into play. By this method you could probably move those things with your Prius once that started to move.
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Old 07-11-2020, 03:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Well, the Eco-boost is semi-obsolete with the onset of the POWERBOOST! 12K towing capability! All the article talked about is a short bed, crew cab 4x4 and I bet that 1/2 ton will have a 1000 lb payload like most. MARKETING HYPE prevails. Bet they have commercials of this new F150 dragging the Queen Mary down the road. A hybrid truck? How did that work for Chevy/GM? I just can't understand why the need for more power if your truck really can't be used truck-like (towing / hauling). The new F150 does have 11 grille options if I read right. Now there is an upgrade.




From Road & Track:



The biggest change is the new PowerBoost hybrid powertrain option, the first true hybrid truck since GM's ill-fated Silverado and Sierra hybrids. But this isn't just the eco-friendly option; by pairing a 35-kilowatt electric motor to the already potent EcoBoost 3.5-liter turbocharged V-6, Ford says the PowerBoost will offer more power than any other light-duty truck. Cruising range should exceed 700 miles and the tow rating will be above 12,000 pounds. It'll also be available on every trim and in both rear-wheel- and four-wheel-drive configurations.

George, what F-150 Crew Cab has a 1,000 lb. cargo capacity?

My 3.5L Ecoboost SuperCrew has over 3,000 lb. in cargo capacity and every one I looked at before we bought this one had right around 2,000 lbs. cargo capacity (All according to the cargo and loading sticker on the door frame). I am not a “Ford Guy” (this is my first Ford), but I do believe in accurate facts.
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Old 07-11-2020, 04:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog View Post
George, what F-150 Crew Cab has a 1,000 lb. cargo capacity?

My 3.5L Ecoboost SuperCrew has over 3,000 lb. in cargo capacity and every one I looked at before we bought this one had right around 2,000 lbs. cargo capacity (All according to the cargo and loading sticker on the door frame). I am not a “Ford Guy” (this is my first Ford), but I do believe in accurate facts.

Not to be argumentative, and I know many folks love Ford. In fact they were my brand for many years and I bought lots of new trucks from them but they turned to mush....90s - probably along with all those Firestone tires.

What I really find irritating with Ford is that unlike Ram or GM? they live and die by a generic brochure (always posting best possible numbers) that can't get specific enough about a truck to tell anyone anything unless you go to a lot and open a door to see what THAT truck can do.....and it won't be anything like the "brochure".

Case in point Ford F150 towing spec brochure 2019;

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content...F150_Oct25.pdf

Some things to note;

1st page; 3.3 V6, max tow and max payload = 7700 and 1990 respectively. Wow! Impressive....and unbelievable. Strangely page 2 indicates the 3.3 with the 3.55 (which is what most will have) only has a max tow rating of 5000lbs.?? Also note that the gcvwr is 9800 (supercab/supercrew which is what most will be). If I look at that and I subtract that small 5000 lb. trailer I'm going to tow from it I have 4800 lbs. for my truck which will have to include payload ..... Smoke and mirrors.

So in reference to the question of what F150 has a 1k payload? Probably a lot if equipped like that. Probably not if an Ecoboost or V8.

Not knocking Fords, just their documentation and advertising.
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Old 07-11-2020, 04:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by NH_Bulldog View Post
George, what F-150 Crew Cab has a 1,000 lb. cargo capacity?

My 3.5L Ecoboost SuperCrew has over 3,000 lb. in cargo capacity and every one I looked at before we bought this one had right around 2,000 lbs. cargo capacity (All according to the cargo and loading sticker on the door frame). I am not a “Ford Guy” (this is my first Ford), but I do believe in accurate facts.
The 2020 F150 Raptor CC 3.5 HO Ecoboost has a payload listed in the Ford specifications chart at 1000 pounds: https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/models/f150-raptor/

While not "typical of F150 payload ratings" both Ford (Raptor) and RAM (Power Wagon) have significantly reduced payload capacity. It comes from the "long travel suspension" which is required to compete in the "Baja environment"... Specialty trucks that obviously are not intended to be the "jack of all trades" especially not towing and carrying....

So, yes, that "1000 pound payload F150 does exist.....
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:30 PM   #12
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The 2020 F150 Raptor CC 3.5 HO Ecoboost has a payload listed in the Ford specifications chart at 1000 pounds: https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/models/f150-raptor/

While not "typical of F150 payload ratings" both Ford (Raptor) and RAM (Power Wagon) have significantly reduced payload capacity. It comes from the "long travel suspension" which is required to compete in the "Baja environment"... Specialty trucks that obviously are not intended to be the "jack of all trades" especially not towing and carrying....

So, yes, that "1000 pound payload F150 does exist.....
Yes, there are a few out there.....a few. Certainly not “most” like what was stated in the original post. I had a Power Wagon, but never towed a trailer with it, but I did with my Ram 2500 Quad Cab. If I had a Raptor, I wouldn’t use that for towing either, but I did with my Sierra 1500 Z71. Since this is a forum for trailers and towing, I just questioned why the term “most” was used, especially since “most” F-150’s are NOT Raptors and “most” F-150’s DO have substantially more than 1,000 lbs. cargo capacity.
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Old 07-12-2020, 05:44 AM   #13
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George, what F-150 Crew Cab has a 1,000 lb. cargo capacity?

My 3.5L Ecoboost SuperCrew has over 3,000 lb. in cargo capacity and every one I looked at before we bought this one had right around 2,000 lbs. cargo capacity (All according to the cargo and loading sticker on the door frame). I am not a “Ford Guy” (this is my first Ford), but I do believe in accurate facts.
I’m guessing it was tongue in cheek....
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Old 07-12-2020, 05:47 AM   #14
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Ford had some hybrid Escort wagons as I recall when I worked there in 2011-2012. IIRC they were approaching the magical 7 year mark were the battery was due to be replaced. They wouldn't even accept them for trade. The battery cost in excess of $4000 I believe.
We bought a 2005 Honda Accord hybrid. I wisely bought a 120,000 mile warranty cause I had a feeing the battery pack would t make it that long. Sure enough around 80,000 miles it crapped out. Car ran fine without the battery but since I had the warranty I replaced it. Would have cost $5000 with the labor. Saved me $4100 as I paid $900 for the warranty.
Traded it at 110,00 miles. Tried to sell but no one would touch it. Didn’t get a great trade for it either.
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Old 07-12-2020, 06:14 AM   #15
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I was naive and fell for the 2016 F150 3.5 EB. Brochure, and salesman, said max towing on “this truck” is 11,900! Hell yea!
Bought it then started looking at trailers. Momma wanted a fifth wheel. No problem, I just bought the “mac daddy” from Ford. Almost signed on a smaller 5er. The salesman told me my truck will tow it just fine. Numbers didnt add up tho, and I even had the max payload. Problem is, I also had the 20” wheels, 4 door, and lots of heavy options. We were maxed out with an empty trailer! Wife told me to trade the truck for one that will tow the 5er that she now wanted. Ended up with a drw F 350 TT with max payload and max tow.
Thank God the wife was running that train, or there would be nothing left of me! Haha
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Old 07-12-2020, 06:17 AM   #16
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How much would the batteries for that F150 weigh? How does that not effect the GVWR, payload, etc?
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Old 07-12-2020, 06:33 AM   #17
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How much would the batteries for that F150 weigh? How does that not effect the GVWR, payload, etc?
My guess is (without seeing the specs on the truck) that Ford increased the max towing capacity from 11,200 to 12,000 so the 800 pounds of batteries can be included in the "max towing capacity"... They'll likely find some more "smoke and mirrors" to accommodate the low payload capacity... Maybe increase the GVW from 7200 to 8000 and call it a "max payload package, free with every hybrid F150"...
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Old 07-12-2020, 07:11 AM   #18
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My guess is (without seeing the specs on the truck) that Ford increased the max towing capacity from 11,200 to 12,000 so the 800 pounds of batteries can be included in the "max towing capacity"... They'll likely find some more "smoke and mirrors" to accommodate the low payload capacity... Maybe increase the GVW from 7200 to 8000 and call it a "max payload package, free with every hybrid F150"...
California just passed a bill that will phase out commercial diesel trucks over the next 25 years. (can our RV tow vehicles be far behind?) It will first start by denying registration for trucks built before 2011 and will end by denying any new diesels sold by 2045. So by doing this it's clear that they expect electric trucks to have advanced enough to do what the present commercial trucks are capable of now. I say this with a smirk on my face because even in 25 years I'm VERY skeptical that this will be possible. My wife and I are team drivers. I run about 600-700 miles a night and she takes over and runs about 500-600 miles during the day. (The difference is due to more traffic during daylight hours.) We can refuel Once a day and refueling usually takes about 15-20 minutes. First of all, how much battery weight is going to be required to move an 80K pound gross weight across the highways and up the mountains on a rig this heavy? Empty weight on my present rig (tractor and reefer trailer) is 38400 pounds. So my max load is 41600 pounds. I can't begin to imagine the battery power it would take to move 80K pounds 70-80 mph down a highway. Secondly, there is no way you're going to recharge this much battery in the same time period it would take to refuel the diesel truck. And the range? Do you think someone could make a battery that could move this much weight 700 miles in one charge? That's around 10-11 hours drive time. I think they've set some lofty goals. Some of you engineer types may have some insight? I have my doubts that they will be able to get a car to go that far let alone a 40 ton truck.
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Old 07-12-2020, 07:14 AM   #19
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MHmmmm ... How long before we get a post "can I plug my hybrid F150 into the same outlet that my 50 amp 1/2 ton fiver is plugged into at the same time? I need to charge it back up for the ride into town to buy some kombucha tea get my high colonic treatment ."
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Old 07-12-2020, 07:17 AM   #20
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California just passed a bill that will phase out commercial diesel trucks over the next 25 years. (can our RV tow vehicles be far behind?) It will first start by denying registration for trucks built before 2011 and will end by denying any new diesels sold by 2045. So by doing this it's clear that they expect electric trucks to have advanced enough to do what the present commercial trucks are capable of now. I say this with a smirk on my face because even in 25 years I'm VERY skeptical that this will be possible. My wife and I are team drivers. I run about 600-700 miles a night and she takes over and runs about 500-600 miles during the day. (The difference is due to more traffic during daylight hours.) We can refuel Once a day and refueling usually takes about 15-20 minutes. First of all, how much battery weight is going to be required to move an 80K pound gross weight across the highways and up the mountains on a rig this heavy? Empty weight on my present rig (tractor and reefer trailer) is 38400 pounds. So my max load is 41600 pounds. I can't begin to imagine the battery power it would take to move 80K pounds 70-80 mph down a highway. Secondly, there is no way you're going to recharge this much battery in the same time period it would take to refuel the diesel truck. And the range? Do you think someone could make a battery that could move this much weight 700 miles in one charge? That's around 10-11 hours drive time. I think they've set some lofty goals. Some of you engineer types may have some insight? I have my doubts that they will be able to get a car to go that far let alone a 40 ton truck.
The first word in your post says it all.
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