Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Keystone RV Forums > Keystone Tech Forums > Tow Vehicles
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-09-2020, 04:43 AM   #21
rhagfo
Senior Member
 
rhagfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
Scott, Don't you have a white sticker trimmed in yellow with your max payload in your driver door frame. Every truck rolls off the line equipped and configured a bit differently and that number is usually the short poll in the tent. Your numbers confuse the snot out of me but I am not one of the weight patrol so one of them will pop in and get this sorted out. You will probably be told you need at least a one ton dually since you are dragging a "half ton towable". Maybe a Freightliner?
So the OP posted the necessary numbers, that and on a 12 year old truck the Payload sticker is pretty much useless.

The scale ticket came back with 4 weights.

Net A - 4820lbs (assume steering axle weight)
Net B - 5280lbs (assume drive axle weight)
Net C - 7780lbs (assume trailer axle weight)
Net (A+B+C) - 17880lbs (assume combined weight of A,B, C)

I have an 08 Silverado 2500HD DMax TD, ext cab stnd Bed 4wd,
My door Sticker has the following info:

GVWR - 9200lb
GAWR FRT - 4860lb
GAWR RR - 6084
GCWR - 22000
Max Trailer weight 14000


So the OP's TV is 900# over GVWR at 10,100#, he is within GAWR Rear axle. I am taking a SWAG that his pin (hitch) weight is about 2,280# +/-.

Many will say he is within GAWR's so he is fine. I towed this way for about six years with our 2001 Ram 2500 I was between 1,200# and 1,700# over GVWR, not a wise choice. I will say I never worried about the truck breaking, or a ticket, I was worried about a law suit if in an accident.

The OP should be looking for a newer 350/3500 with enough payload to carry all passengers, stuff and pin weight.
__________________
Russ & Paula and Belle the Beagle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 14,000# GVWR (New TV)
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS 32’ GVWR 12,360
Visit and enjoy Oregon State Parks
rhagfo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 04:43 AM   #22
JRTJH
Site Team
 
JRTJH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gaylord
Posts: 26,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspman View Post
the interesting thing to note here is that the sum of the GAWR FRT (4860) and the GAWR RR (6084) posted on the door sticker already exceed the posted GVWR (9200)

How's that work?
The way Ford explains it in their SuperDuty Owner's Manual is this:

The front and rear axle maximum load (FAWR and RAWR) are greater than the GVW to allow for loading variability while maintaining sufficient axle loading of the vehicle. If the passenger loading requires loading to the GVW, the front axle will carry more of the load while if the cargo bed loading is required, the rear axle will carry more of the load. There is "sufficient axle capacity" to load either the front axle or the rear axle to carry nearly any load at any position on the vehicle, up to the GVW without overloading either axle.

As an example: Imagine you're towing a fifth wheel (loading the rear axle) up to the GVWR. You can't also add a snow plow (loading up the front axle) because it would exceed the GVWR. You can unhitch the fifth wheel and install a snow plow on the front of the truck "up to the axle/GVW ratings. You can do "one or the other but not both". Doing so would violate the GVWR, probably overloading the main frame or some other components on the truck that are limited to a maximum allow by the GVWR.
__________________
John



2015 F250 6.7l 4x4
2014 Cougar X Lite 27RKS
JRTJH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 07:25 AM   #23
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
The way Ford explains it in their SuperDuty Owner's Manual is this:

The front and rear axle maximum load (FAWR and RAWR) are greater than the GVW to allow for loading variability while maintaining sufficient axle loading of the vehicle. If the passenger loading requires loading to the GVW, the front axle will carry more of the load while if the cargo bed loading is required, the rear axle will carry more of the load. There is "sufficient axle capacity" to load either the front axle or the rear axle to carry nearly any load at any position on the vehicle, up to the GVW without overloading either axle.

As an example: Imagine you're towing a fifth wheel (loading the rear axle) up to the GVWR. You can't also add a snow plow (loading up the front axle) because it would exceed the GVWR. You can unhitch the fifth wheel and install a snow plow on the front of the truck "up to the axle/GVW ratings. You can do "one or the other but not both". Doing so would violate the GVWR, probably overloading the main frame or some other components on the truck that are limited to a maximum allow by the GVWR.
Very good explanation, as usual John....thanks for that!
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 08:00 AM   #24
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
KEYSTONE SAYS HALF TON TOWABLE!

Yeah Keystone! Yeah sales guy! I know this is dumb but someone should sue both Keystone AND the dealership that tells people their truck is up to snuff to tow a "half tone towable"... Boy this story is familiar and I have read folks explaining these numbers so often the numbers almost makes sense. Unfortunately most of the answers come post-partum. This makes for a painful RV birth.
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 09:48 AM   #25
Roscommon48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: grand rapids
Posts: 596
gsp. you'll get overloaded by the input from others and their numbers.


you are fine. enjoy rving.
Roscommon48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 09:52 AM   #26
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscommon48 View Post
gsp. you'll get overloaded by the input from others and their numbers.


you are fine. enjoy rving.
He's already overloaded....well, at least his truck is. You are really going to make a statement on a public forum that YOU advise him that he's OK.....knowing that he is almost 1/2 Ton overloaded on his truck?......Really? You got more guts than I do......but maybe you just don't understand towing dynamics. Stick around, there will be more I'm sure!
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 10:54 AM   #27
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roscommon48 View Post
gsp. you'll get overloaded by the input from others and their numbers.


you are fine. enjoy rving.
I cannot understand why you continue to take this reckless attitude and give obviously wrong advice to folks looking for help. I think it's unconscionable to to tell someone that's operating so severely overloaded that "they are fine".
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 11:02 AM   #28
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
I have a great suggestion.....start him off with a 30 day vacation from the forum (ban...in simple terms). If that doesn't do the trick, make it permanent! We don't need people on this forum doing that kind of crap. I've got zero problem with him going bye bye!
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 11:37 AM   #29
Frank G
Senior Member
 
Frank G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dade City
Posts: 1,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
KEYSTONE SAYS HALF TON TOWABLE!

Yeah Keystone! Yeah sales guy! I know this is dumb but someone should sue both Keystone AND the dealership that tells people their truck is up to snuff to tow a "half tone towable"... Boy this story is familiar and I have read folks explaining these numbers so often the numbers almost makes sense. Unfortunately most of the answers come post-partum. This makes for a painful RV birth.
There are 1/2 ton's out there with a lot more payload capacity than the op's 3/4 ton.
__________________
2021 Surveyor Legend 19rble
2017 Laredo 325RL
Travelers Rest Resort
www.travelersrestresort.com
Frank G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 11:50 AM   #30
Northofu1
Senior Member
 
Northofu1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Markham, Ontario
Posts: 1,942
Like a weasel in the hen house.
__________________
Dan & Serena

2019 GMC SIERRA 2500 HD SLE
2015 Cougar X-Lite 29 RET
Northofu1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 11:51 AM   #31
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
There are 1/2 ton's out there with a lot more payload capacity than the op's 3/4 ton.
I agree that there are, but boy they are scarce. Many folks have never even heard of the HDPP for the 1/2 T Ford trucks.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 12:34 PM   #32
notanlines
Senior Member
 
notanlines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germantown, TN
Posts: 6,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank G View Post
There are 1/2 ton's out there with a lot more payload capacity than the op's 3/4 ton.
Usually you will need to couple that with the towing capacity. Just a thought.
notanlines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 12:46 PM   #33
flybouy
Site Team
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Joppa, MD
Posts: 11,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated View Post
I agree that there are, but boy they are scarce. Many folks have never even heard of the HDPP for the 1/2 T Ford trucks.
Agreed. The double edged sword with most 3/4 ton trucks is the diesel. That added weight comes right off the payload. Most people buy a 3/4 ton diesel thinking it will pull the world and it will but at the expense of payload.

It's all relative, new pu owners buy a 1/2 ton truck and think they are driving a "big rig", until they buy a trailer too big for it. Then they buy a 3/4 ton and think "NOW I've got the big rig", so I can buy an even LARGER trailer. It's the circle of life for many rv owners.
__________________
Marshall
2012 Laredo 303 TG
2010 F250 LT Super Cab, long bed, 4X4, 6.4 Turbo Diesel
flybouy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 01:46 PM   #34
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybouy View Post
Agreed. The double edged sword with most 3/4 ton trucks is the diesel. That added weight comes right off the payload. Most people buy a 3/4 ton diesel thinking it will pull the world and it will but at the expense of payload.

It's all relative, new pu owners buy a 1/2 ton truck and think they are driving a "big rig", until they buy a trailer too big for it. Then they buy a 3/4 ton and think "NOW I've got the big rig", so I can buy an even LARGER trailer. It's the circle of life for many rv owners.
LOL....I know exactly what you mean....although I didn't start out with the 1/2T, I went straight for the "Monster" 3/4T diesel that could pull about anything I wanted to buy! I had to tap out on that idea several years later when between my aux. fuel tank and a 13K GVWR tow behind toy hauler I was overloaded. Next truck was my present truck....'16 CrewCab Dually, 6.7, 3:73 and almost 5300 lbs of payload. It was a smart move planning ahead when I did that. I now have a triple axle, 5th Wheel Toy Hauler with a GVWR of 20,000 lbs. And you know what, I credit a bunch of folks on this very forum for being patient and helpful with me when trying to learn the ins and outs of what it takes to tow heavy and within all the capacity ratings of both the truck and trailer. Hats off to y'all.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 02:39 PM   #35
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated View Post
LOL....I know exactly what you mean....although I didn't start out with the 1/2T, I went straight for the "Monster" 3/4T diesel that could pull about anything I wanted to buy! I had to tap out on that idea several years later when between my aux. fuel tank and a 13K GVWR tow behind toy hauler I was overloaded. Next truck was my present truck....'16 CrewCab Dually, 6.7, 3:73 and almost 5300 lbs of payload. It was a smart move planning ahead when I did that. I now have a triple axle, 5th Wheel Toy Hauler with a GVWR of 20,000 lbs. And you know what, I credit a bunch of folks on this very forum for being patient and helpful with me when trying to learn the ins and outs of what it takes to tow heavy and within all the capacity ratings of both the truck and trailer. Hats off to y'all.
To take this thread even farther off course, I had a 2010 Spyder RT. That thing was the scariest trike I have ever owned. My wife was miserable as the passenger. Handling was AWFUL... anti-sway bar was too skinny, shocks were junk, etc. I changed all that stuff and the handling became respectable unless you pushed it and then the lean was disconcerting. The missus demanded another Goldwing trike! (I am on my 3rd - a 2006 Roadsmith). I would love to try one of the 3 cylinder newer Spyders as I understand they have come a long way.
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 02:58 PM   #36
xrated
Senior Member
 
xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: "Murvil, TN
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredgeorge View Post
To take this thread even farther off course, I had a 2010 Spyder RT. That thing was the scariest trike I have ever owned. My wife was miserable as the passenger. Handling was AWFUL... anti-sway bar was too skinny, shocks were junk, etc. I changed all that stuff and the handling became respectable unless you pushed it and then the lean was disconcerting. The missus demanded another Goldwing trike! (I am on my 3rd - a 2006 Roadsmith). I would love to try one of the 3 cylinder newer Spyders as I understand they have come a long way.
Well, while we are on a temporary "detour" here, talking about Spyders, my '19 is the first one that I've ever owned....been on two wheels for almost 50 years. I knew when I bought it that one of the weaknesses of them is still the front sway bar. I made several engine breakin runs without the wife onboard, and knew about 99.0% that it was going to have be replaced. So on the ride with her on the back (105 lbs) I was pushing it into the corners pretty hard and the sway was pretty bad. I came home from that ride and ordered the BajaRon sway bar and installed it a day or two after it came in. The new sway bar is absolutely night and day difference between it and stock. The 1330 definitely has some get up and go, but I'm not easily impressed as I've been on high H.P. sportbikes for the last 20+ years. Those bikes will pull the front wheel up at well over 100+ mph in third gear. I've actually wheelied on the track at over 140 mph, so the Spyder is pretty tame compared to that type of bike, but for a 1000 lbs of three wheel motorcycle, it does move out pretty well. My wife is comfortable, has lots of room on the pillion seat, and is overall very happy with it. I'm getting a lot more comfortable on learning to ride it vs. two wheels, so I'm enjoying it a lot too. We'll be taking it with us out west next year when we visit the Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce, and then to Moab, and I'm looking forward to seeing the views out there on a more relaxed type bike.

Sorry for the detour, and back on the scale conversation.
__________________
2016 F350 King Ranch Crew Cab Dually Diesel 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M
2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000GT+
Excessive payload capacity is a wonderful thing

"If it ain't Fast....It ain't Fun"
xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 12:33 PM   #37
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspman View Post
the interesting thing to note here is that the sum of the GAWR FRT (4860) and the GAWR RR (6084) posted on the door sticker already exceed the posted GVWR (9200)

How's that work?
Read Post #18.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 12:41 PM   #38
CWtheMan
Senior Member
 
CWtheMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taylors, SC
Posts: 3,031
You know, when a RV trailer manufacturer advertises a trailer as being 1/2 ton towable, they don't specify which 1/2 ton. That's probably because it's the consumer's choice and decision to make.
CWtheMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 01:52 PM   #39
sourdough
Site Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: W. Texas
Posts: 17,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWtheMan View Post
You know, when a RV trailer manufacturer advertises a trailer as being 1/2 ton towable, they don't specify which 1/2 ton. That's probably because it's the consumer's choice and decision to make.

I think you're right, and, I think that once the truck manufacturers started making ONE model that had a higher load rating than all the rest, and virtually non existent, the RV manufacturers started touting "1/2 ton towable" knowing that most folks don't know and won't ask.

As it is in anything, it is up to the potential buyer/tower to know the p's and q's of towing. Unfortunately, unlike the old days, they didn't start out with a hay, cotton or flatbed trailer and learn there are limits; they jump right in with that 37', 9000lb. trailer on that 1/2 ton to "learn" with.
__________________
Danny and Susan, wife of 56 years
2019 Ram 3500 Laramie CC SWB SB 6.4 4x4 4.10
2020 Montana High Country 331RL
sourdough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2020, 03:00 PM   #40
wiredgeorge
Senior Member
 
wiredgeorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Mico, TX
Posts: 7,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrated View Post
Well, while we are on a temporary "detour" here, talking about Spyders, my '19 is the first one that I've ever owned....been on two wheels for almost 50 years. I knew when I bought it that one of the weaknesses of them is still the front sway bar. I made several engine breakin runs without the wife onboard, and knew about 99.0% that it was going to have be replaced. So on the ride with her on the back (105 lbs) I was pushing it into the corners pretty hard and the sway was pretty bad. I came home from that ride and ordered the BajaRon sway bar and installed it a day or two after it came in. The new sway bar is absolutely night and day difference between it and stock. The 1330 definitely has some get up and go, but I'm not easily impressed as I've been on high H.P. sportbikes for the last 20+ years. Those bikes will pull the front wheel up at well over 100+ mph in third gear. I've actually wheelied on the track at over 140 mph, so the Spyder is pretty tame compared to that type of bike, but for a 1000 lbs of three wheel motorcycle, it does move out pretty well. My wife is comfortable, has lots of room on the pillion seat, and is overall very happy with it. I'm getting a lot more comfortable on learning to ride it vs. two wheels, so I'm enjoying it a lot too. We'll be taking it with us out west next year when we visit the Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce, and then to Moab, and I'm looking forward to seeing the views out there on a more relaxed type bike.

Sorry for the detour, and back on the scale conversation.
If you ever get to the Texas Hill Country let me know. Will let you take your missus out with you on my Roadsmith (GL1800) conversion. The Spyder I had had the 990cc buzzy engine with tepid power but made a lot of noise. I did the same sway bar plus changed the shocks to performance shocks (can't recall name but it was four letters and started with an E I think). That helped buy my missus and I both had gotten spoiled on a Goldwing trike in the past. I have been riding for over 50 years and never much cared for sport bikes but love vintage bike; sold my last last year, a 1980 GS1000G and it was a great bike but two wheels are getting sketchy for me (vertigo and old). Still love to ride the trike.
__________________
wiredgeorge Mico TX
2006 F350 CC 4WD 6.0L
2002 Keystone Cougar 278
2006 GL1800 Roadsmith Trike
wiredgeorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates in any way. Keystone RV® is a registered trademark of the Keystone RV Company.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.