Tow Vehicle Shopping Time

[weebl]

We bought a new to us 2010 Keystone Cougar 322QBS at the end of last summer. We took it home with the help of a relative and his truck.

With spring on the horizon (though with the weather here lately, that seems very far off), it's time for us to start looking at getting a tow vehicle.

We know what we want already, in terms of vehicle make, years, etc. The truck for us should be a 2007.5 or newer GM Duramax diesel, crew cab, 4x4. Preference is for a long box, and for SRW. The combined factors of budget and mileage preference seems to put us at looking at low mile units from about 2009 to 2012 model years.

Our trailer has a GVW of 11,800 lbs. I know that the 3/4 ton versions of these trucks have published tow figures that are capable, but they do seem close, and I think having a greater margin would be better. 1 ton versions seem to have a lot of room in terms of tow capacity.

The intention is to keep the trailer until all the kids are out of the nest, possibly even beyond, and my youngest is 3, so definitely no planned changes to the trailer in the foreseeable future.

Will a 3/4 ton truly be sufficient, or should we be looking solely at the 1 tons. Given a choice between two similar vehicles, a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton, I know I would go for the 1 ton, but what if I am faced with only 3/4 ton trucks in the age, mileage and price range I am looking at?

Thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated!

[Tbos]

I seldom see used 1 tons for sale that haven't been run/beat to death. If you can find one go for it. Don't push your load limits. When you finally buy, make sure you post pictures of your whole rig. Have fun making great memories with your family and friends.


2016 Passport GT 2810BHS, 2014 Silverado 1500 LT in Deep Forest Green

[notanlines]

Weebl, let's be reasonable. I have $2.00 (or a tooney) says you won't come close to keeping that trailer for 15 or 20 more years. Once the fever hits you and your family you will find that a late model something or other looks better and better. Search hard and buy a one ton. And when you find that next trailer just send me a check!

[JRTJH]

weebl,

The 322QBS has an empty pin weight of about 1400 pounds. Add battery, propane and cargo, you're looking at closer to 1800-2100 pounds. Now, add 100 pounds for the hitch, some cargo to the truck, and you're going to be over the payload of most 3/4 ton trucks. By the time you add your family to the mix, you're definitely going to be in the upper ranges of most trucks in the 1 ton class.

Now, many people keep an RV for 8 to 10 years, some a bit longer, but you'll find very few "large fifth wheels" on the road that are 20 years old. By then, most have been parked "permanently" and are being used as a "seasonal cottage" at a "full time summer resort campground".... I'd suspect that after 3 or 4 years, you'll be considering a replacement trailer. So, even if you can "live on the edge of your payload" for now, you probably won't be doing so by the time the truck is paid for, so might as well "go big and not have to stay home"......

[weebl]

Originally Posted by notanlines

Weebl, let's be reasonable. I have $2.00 (or a tooney) says you won't come close to keeping that trailer for 15 or 20 more years. Once the fever hits you and your family you will find that a late model something or other looks better and better. Search hard and buy a one ton. And when you find that next trailer just send me a check!

True, we will most likely have something else after a while. But I'm guessing the truck will more likely be upgraded before the trailer is.

[Canonman]

Here's some info from another forum related to diesel tow vehicles that may help.
I have the 2007.5 Ram 2500. The only difference in my model 3/4 ton rated truck and the 1 ton version is an additional leaf spring and higher rated tires. Both of which are reasonable cost post purchase upgrades.
Difference between 3/4 ton & 1 Ton - TheDieselPage.com Forums

[1jeep]

just get a 1 ton and don't worry about weights for a little while, good luck finding a gently used one!

[66joej]

Ditto to all the above recommendations. We had a Cougar 32SAB 5ver. started out towing with a 2011 F250 6.2 gasser. Got old real quick. Upgraded to a 2011 F250 6.7 diesel. Difference was night & day. Get a big truck right off the bat and you will be happy. And welcome to the forum from Radium Hot Springs BC.

[mtofell]

350 is great if you can find one but that's the challenge. As someone said the 250 is the EXACT same truck minus some rear suspension beef. So, throw some airbags or Timbrens on and you've got a 350..... sort of. There's the whole legal aspect everyone freaks out about. Only you can decide if you're okay with that.

[chuckster57]

Originally Posted by mtofell

350 is great if you can find one but that's the challenge. As someone said the 250 is the EXACT same truck minus some rear suspension beef. So, throw some airbags or Timbrens on and you've got a 350..... sort of. There's the whole legal aspect everyone freaks out about. Only you can decide if you're okay with that.

No they are NOT. The federal sticker on the door jamb says they aren't. No matter what you do to a 3/4 ton truck it isn't the exact same thing. Maybe freaking out about the "legal aspect" is something more people need to do.
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27214

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by mtofell

350 is great if you can find one but that's the challenge. As someone said the 250 is the EXACT same truck minus some rear suspension beef. So, throw some airbags or Timbrens on and you've got a 350..... sort of. There's the whole legal aspect everyone freaks out about. Only you can decide if you're okay with that.

Airbags of any kind on any vehicle do not increase the vehicles carrying capacity....legally or realistically. In the situation described above there is much more to change than a leaf on the rear end to bring a 3/4 ton to 1 ton status. Those analogies are used by those trying to dodge the facts.

[Barbell]

All good info. Everyone I have ever heard from who has gone from a 3/4 to a 1 ton dually, ('16 3500 Ram CTD longbed) including me, would not go back. Many want the SRW 1 ton, I assume because the dually is too big and clumsy to navigate in the city and to park. We have been in Charleston, SC since mid-October and frequently drive in the downtown area. If you have ever been here, you know how narrow the streets in the old section are. I have had to fold in mirrors several times and at least once have hit another mirror with mine. It is doable however. The newer trucks have a tighter turning radius, rear camera, etc that make it easier to get around. Once you learn how to park one, you will be glad you went big.

[Outback 325BH]

Originally Posted by chuckster57

No they are NOT. The federal sticker on the door jamb says they aren't. No matter what you do to a 3/4 ton truck it isn't the exact same thing. Maybe freaking out about the "legal aspect" is something more people need to do.
http://www.keystonerv.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27214

The federal sticker could say it is a flying carpet, but that doesn't mean it is so... lol.

I have a 2016 F250 with camper package. It is identical in every way as an F350 SRW except for the 4" block under the F350 SRW.

The yellow sticker does of course have lower ratings for the 250, however those are not due to actual limits of the 250. They are paper limits.

Some of us blindly follow the yellow stickers and some of us know our trucks very well.

I installed the 4" blocks on my 250 so the rear sits up a little. One interesting note of the 4" blocks: although the rear end sits higher, you don't get any extra travel in the suspension due to the bump stops... they are in the same location on the taller blocks.

It is always good to bring up the "potentially legal" aspect of the yellow sticker, but it is disingenuous to ignore the physical differences and similarities of the two trucks. People think the trucks are different because of the sticker... and that just isn't the case.

Anyone familiar with Ford's build-it website knows you can add GVWR packages to limit the GVWR of the truck. Those folks know it is a paper restriction and that Ford isn't actually building a special truck that is actually less capable. Same thing is going on with 250's and 350 SRW's.


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[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by Outback 325BH

The federal sticker could say it is a flying carpet, but that doesn't mean it is so... lol

Some of us blindly follow the yellow stickers and some of us know our trucks very well.

It is always good to bring up the "potentially legal" aspect of the yellow sticker, but it is disingenuous to ignore the physical differences and similarities of the two trucks. People think the trucks are different because of the sticker... and that just isn't the case.

The problem with your reasoning is not a "physical limitation" of the truck, it's the "legal limitation" that the federal government places on it (for a variety of reasons, all having to do with money and taxes).

I don't know about you, but I really want to keep my truck and my savings. What you're saying is true in a "physical sense" but is fast becoming "an old wives tale" in many states. Whether we like it or not, there's a significant shift occurring as we speak in the legal profession. Many lawyers are now openly advertising that they will take "overweight RV cases" on a contingent basis. They only get paid if they win. It's becoming a significant risk to "fortune and future" to risk it all if something should happen. Hopefully you'll never meet Mr Annis ( https://www.kennethjannislaw.com/rv-accident.html ) or any of his associates in front of someone wearing a black robe and not smiling. For me, and I'd suppose for many others, it's simply not worth the risk.

Your views may differ, and that's perfectly OK with me, so long as you don't run into my truck on the highway. Then, I'd suppose I would have to consider whether or not to call Mr. Annis..... Just sayin'..................

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The problem with your reasoning is not a "physical limitation" of the truck, it's the "legal limitation" that the federal government places on it (for a variety of reasons, all having to do with money and taxes).

I don't know about you, but I really want to keep my truck and my savings. What you're saying is true in a "physical sense" but is fast becoming "an old wives tale" in many states. Whether we like it or not, there's a significant shift occurring as we speak in the legal profession. Many lawyers are now openly advertising that they will take "overweight RV cases" on a contingent basis. They only get paid if they win. It's becoming a significant risk to "fortune and future" to risk it all if something should happen. Hopefully you'll never meet Mr Annis ( https://www.kennethjannislaw.com/rv-accident.html ) or any of his associates in front of someone wearing a black robe and not smiling. For me, and I'd suppose for many others, it's simply not worth the risk.

Your views may differ, and that's perfectly OK with me, so long as you don't run into my truck on the highway. Then, I'd suppose I would have to consider whether or not to call Mr. Annis..... Just sayin'..................

^^^^Me too and well said!

[sourdough]

Originally Posted by Outback 325BH

The federal sticker could say it is a flying carpet, but that doesn't mean it is so... lol.

I have a 2016 F250 with camper package. It is identical in every way as an F350 SRW except for the 4" block under the F350 SRW.

The yellow sticker does of course have lower ratings for the 250, however those are not due to actual limits of the 250. They are paper limits.

Some of us blindly follow the yellow stickers and some of us know our trucks very well.

I installed the 4" blocks on my 250 so the rear sits up a little. One interesting note of the 4" blocks: although the rear end sits higher, you don't get any extra travel in the suspension due to the bump stops... they are in the same location on the taller blocks.

It is always good to bring up the "potentially legal" aspect of the yellow sticker, but it is disingenuous to ignore the physical differences and similarities of the two trucks. People think the trucks are different because of the sticker... and that just isn't the case.

Anyone familiar with Ford's build-it website knows you can add GVWR packages to limit the GVWR of the truck. Those folks know it is a paper restriction and that Ford isn't actually building a special truck that is actually less capable. Same thing is going on with 250's and 350 SRW's.


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The problem with this kind of post is that it can/will get unknowledgeable people in trouble or hurt. The regulations/laws/limits are there whether we like them or not, or whether we believe in them or not. When it comes to the "cutting" the law will always have the upper hand and our "opinions" will be paying the price. I don't have any use for that.

When my pistol says NO +P ammo I don't go out and just use the hotter load because I heard of someone doing it.....I'd rather keep my fingers/eyes. Just sayin.

[JRTJH]

Originally Posted by sourdough

The problem with this kind of post is that it can/will get unknowledgeable people in trouble or hurt. The regulations/laws/limits are there whether we like them or not, or whether we believe in them or not. When it comes to the "cutting" the law will always have the upper hand and our "opinions" will be paying the price. I don't have any use for that.

When my pistol says NO +P ammo I don't go out and just use the hotter load because I heard of someone doing it.....I'd rather keep my fingers/eyes. Just sayin.

I agree !!! Another example of "paperwork/legal/certification" criteria is this: I had a primary care clinic, saw patients in the clinic and had "staff privileges" at all the local hospitals. As a part of my "staff privilege" it was understood that I had to have a medical license and mal-practice insurance to "remain on staff". In all the states where I have/had licenses, they expired on my birthday and had to be renewed prior to that date. Should I have admitted a patient to a hospital on the day after my birthday without renewing my license, if ANYTHING had gone wrong, my malpractice insurance would have dropped me, the hospital would have removed my "staff privilege" and sued me (as would the patient) for practicing without a license.

Now, there's no expectation that I would have awakened that morning and have forgotten everything I knew, no expectation that I would have been "incapable" of performing the surgery and no expectation that I would have been "any less capable" because of that "expired license". After all, I was EXACTLY the same as I was "yesterday"... BUT !!!!!

Rest assured, without that license, I'd have been in a world of legal trouble !!!!

There's really no difference in "ignoring a certification" on a truck than there is in "ignoring a license" in a medical practice...... after all, they are both, "just a piece of paper"....

Paperwork does matter !!!!!!!!
OK, Rant off.......

[weebl]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The problem with your reasoning is not a "physical limitation" of the truck, it's the "legal limitation" that the federal government places on it (for a variety of reasons, all having to do with money and taxes).

And this here, is exactly my line of thinking on the trucks. I know that, from a physical perspective, you can modify a 3/4 ton to be mechanically the same as a 1 ton, and this is with suspension upgrades.

BUT, and a very important but at that, is you CANNOT change the legal limitations, at least not in any practical way. The sticker is the sticker, and I understand insurers, lawyers, and the courts will all see this.

That said, being close, but within, the legal limits of a 3/4 ton, it would stand to reason that you physically have a lot of breathing room, especially if you do the required upgrades. And so long as I am within the legal limitations, I am not at risk from that perspective.

Am I missing anything else, should I be forced into a 3/4 ton due to what's available in the market for this particular trailer, that I need to be aware of?

[chuckster57]

As long as the weights are within the specs of the tow vehicle, then yes a 3/4 ton will do the job. If the weights are over the specs then you need a different truck.

When I started towing fivers in 1989, nobody even paid attention to truck/trailer weights. It's a whole different world now, and I for one wouldn't even think about being overweight. I got a good deal on my DRW, and now 9 years later I still take it to the store, just park it so I get an extra few steps of exercise.

In 2009 while towing my previous fiver (2200# king pin) in Missouri I had a blowout on the drivers side rear inner tire. I was able to safely ease off the highway and deal with the problem. I wonder what would happen with a SRW, food for thought.

[Outback 325BH]

Originally Posted by JRTJH

The problem with your reasoning is not a "physical limitation" of the truck, it's the "legal limitation" that the federal government places on it (for a variety of reasons, all having to do with money and taxes).



I don't know about you, but I really want to keep my truck and my savings. What you're saying is true in a "physical sense" but is fast becoming "an old wives tale" in many states. Whether we like it or not, there's a significant shift occurring as we speak in the legal profession. Many lawyers are now openly advertising that they will take "overweight RV cases" on a contingent basis. They only get paid if they win. It's becoming a significant risk to "fortune and future" to risk it all if something should happen. Hopefully you'll never meet Mr Annis ( https://www.kennethjannislaw.com/rv-accident.html ) or any of his associates in front of someone wearing a black robe and not smiling. For me, and I'd suppose for many others, it's simply not worth the risk.



Your views may differ, and that's perfectly OK with me, so long as you don't run into my truck on the highway. Then, I'd suppose I would have to consider whether or not to call Mr. Annis..... Just sayin'..................

What is funny with yours (and others) posts on the matter is worrying about the legal aspect. Nobody has ever said the legalities of the sticker were being changed.

So your main concern is legalities. Fine, I get it. But that shouldn't concern you.

Then you make the (expected) leap to blood running through the highways. That is where the discussion gets off track... since it was already established that the physical abilities of the truck weren't over taxed.

I'm starting to see why the term "weight police " is used in such a derogatory manner. Gotta shake my head laughing at some of these discussions...


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