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Old 01-12-2016, 02:22 PM   #21
JRTJH
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It's my understanding that the "factory Ford option" for CNG/Propane is composed of different valves/valve seats and a "dual fuel intake manifold" (ie: engine changes) and that the actual CNG/Propane tank, fuel lines, regulator, etc are NOT included. Cost is listed on the Ford website as $315.

If the vehicle you're looking at has been "converted by the dealer" to actually operate on CNG/Propane, then he has added the "missing components" at a "substantial cost". Don't forget that there are very few places to refuel with CNG and propane is not yet "taxed for highway use" in many areas (making it difficult to find for "legal use").

Don't forget that with an F250, payload is a factor for potential fifth wheel use and any added weight from the CNG/Propane system will come at a cost in vehicle potential use as a tow vehicle as the payload will be substantially less than a "flex fuel" (unleaded/E-85) fueled vehicle.

Also, I believe the towing limitations are significantly reduced on the CNG/Propane fueled vehicles when they are being operated on CNG/Propane, so you may not be able to actually tow when using that fuel system.

I'd do a heck of a lot of research before buying an alternative fuel vehicle as a primary tow vehicle !!!!!

ADDED" Here's an article you might find interesting: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/06...d-bi-fuel.html
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JRTJH View Post
It's my understanding that the "factory Ford option" for CNG/Propane is composed of different valves/valve seats and a "dual fuel intake manifold" (ie: engine changes) and that the actual CNG/Propane tank, fuel lines, regulator, etc are NOT included. Cost is listed on the Ford website as $315.

If the vehicle you're looking at has been "converted by the dealer" to actually operate on CNG/Propane, then he has added the "missing components" at a "substantial cost". Don't forget that there are very few places to refuel with CNG and propane is not yet "taxed for highway use" in many areas (making it difficult to find for "legal use").

Don't forget that with an F250, payload is a factor for potential fifth wheel use and any added weight from the CNG/Propane system will come at a cost in vehicle potential use as a tow vehicle as the payload will be substantially less than a "flex fuel" (unleaded/E-85) fueled vehicle.

Also, I believe the towing limitations are significantly reduced on the CNG/Propane fueled vehicles when they are being operated on CNG/Propane, so you may not be able to actually tow when using that fuel system.

I'd do a heck of a lot of research before buying an alternative fuel vehicle as a primary tow vehicle !!!!!
Thanks for the info. I found out that the particular dealer I was looking at only sells "branded title" vehicles. Theft recoveries, insurance payouts, etc. Not going to even look at it.
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Old 01-13-2016, 02:41 AM   #23
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Good luck on your hunt for a new TT and TV. We upgraded to a 2810BH. The difference in space is amazing. Still tow with a half ton but wish I had a 3/4 or 1.

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Old 01-13-2016, 04:59 AM   #24
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I'm leaning towards an F250 or F350 with the 6.2L gas engine. I have found one that has the CNG kit installed and is dual-fuel. Does anyone here have experience with this system? It isn't something that I was looking for and it does add a premium to the vehicle price.
I am now working at a dealership that sells Fords, the Ford salesmen are telling me that people who are buying the 6.2 are very upset with their mileage while towing, 7 mpg. The dealership only has one 6.2 on the lot and an entire row of 6.7s. I don't have any knowledge or experience of the CNG kit.
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:21 AM   #25
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Keep in mind, that TORQUE is where towing power comes from. A 6.2L gas has 405 Lb/ft at 4,500 rpm. A 6.7L diesel has 860 Lb/ft at 1,600 rpm. A 6.2 turning 4,500 rpm is going to require more fuel than a 6.7 at 1,600 and still have less than half the pulling power.
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:43 AM   #26
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Keep in mind, that TORQUE is where towing power comes from. A 6.2L gas has 405 Lb/ft at 4,500 rpm. A 6.7L diesel has 860 Lb/ft at 1,600 rpm. A 6.2 turning 4,500 rpm is going to require more fuel than a 6.7 at 1,600 and still have less than half the pulling power.
Ken
Thanks. For me, it's the trade off between the increased purchase price and potential repair costs vs long term fuel costs. The age-old battle, I know.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:08 AM   #27
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I am now working at a dealership that sells Fords, the Ford salesmen are telling me that people who are buying the 6.2 are very upset with their mileage while towing, 7 mpg. The dealership only has one 6.2 on the lot and an entire row of 6.7s. I don't have any knowledge or experience of the CNG kit.
FYI: I made a 7000+ mile trip to the east coast last fall and averaged 10 mpg US (calculated) with our 2015 6.2 at 65 mph. I am NOT light on the gas pedal and was willing to spend money to make time.

At 5000 km (3000 miles) the truck "woke up" and both performance and fuel economy improved noticeably. The 7 mpg reports by the dealer may be during the first 3000 miles.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:25 AM   #28
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FYI: I made a 7000+ mile trip to the east coast last fall and averaged 10 mpg US (calculated) with our 2015 6.2 at 65 mph. I am NOT light on the gas pedal and was willing to spend money to make time.

At 5000 km (3000 miles) the truck "woke up" and both performance and fuel economy improved noticeably. The 7 mpg reports by the dealer may be during the first 3000 miles.
I have read good reviews on F250 related sites regarding the overall 6.2L fuel mileage. It certainly isn't a Civic by any stretch, but I could live with the mileage.

One of the biggest complaints I've read is from people that don't understand the torque management system that is employed. As I understand it, acceleration is slowed until the engine hits a certain RPM, to reduce wheel slippage and such.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:51 AM   #29
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We had a 2013 F250 with a 6.2l gas engine. Solo mileage was between 14 and 16 depending on how and where we drove. Towing ranged from around 7 to around 12, depending on speed, headwinds, altitude, etc. In about 15,000 miles of towing we averaged roughly 9.1MPG towing our 31' fifth wheel that weighs in between 8500-9500 pounds depending on how we load for any specific trip. The reason we traded for a new diesel was only partly based on towing requirements. For me, the major deciding factor was "I want" not "I need"..... I'll probably never see the "positive return on investment" based on the $9,000 added cost of the diesel, but I'm happy with it and for me, that's a plus. Actually, other than transmission shifting, increased tachometer readings and different "downhill braking systems", I was just as happy towing with my gas truck as I am with my diesel truck. The objective (camping) was/is being accomplished with either fuel source.

IMHO, all the manufacturers make both gas and diesel equipped vehicles because there's no "right/wrong" answer that meets every need. For some buyers, gas is a better option, for some diesel is better. I'd suggest looking at what "fits your needs" and make informed decisions on what to buy. It's not all about the towing aspect, especially if the vehicle is a primary means of transportation for the family. Weigh all the factors and buy what meets your requirements.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:00 AM   #30
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Running on propane is like running on E85 - less energy per unit, which means lower power, everything else being equal. Some vehicles can take advantage of it - as the fuel is less volatile - the effective octane is higher, so you can add more timing or more boost. Regardless, MPG will be less, but the cost is less.

I've converted one vehicle to E85 and the costs didn't wash, largely due to a not-so-great margin on E855 down here.

You'll see some non-factory duel fuels (Diesel / Propane) that are capable of big power... But efficiency isn't an issue.
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Old 01-13-2016, 04:22 PM   #31
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The search is on!

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Originally Posted by BirchyBoy View Post
I have read good reviews on F250 related sites regarding the overall 6.2L fuel mileage. It certainly isn't a Civic by any stretch, but I could live with the mileage.

One of the biggest complaints I've read is from people that don't understand the torque management system that is employed. As I understand it, acceleration is slowed until the engine hits a certain RPM, to reduce wheel slippage and such.

Yes the traction control system prevents wheel spin and results in it feeling lethargic when not towing. I do not experience it when trailering since there is no traction shortage, so the rig accelerates fine.

BTW: If you want to spin your wheels, the traction control can be turned off.

One reason to go F250 diesel is that the receiver capacity of only 12500 lbs / 1250 TW with WD on the F250 gasser limits the TT to just over 8,000 lbs @ 15% TW if you want to stay within all specs. The diesel receiver rating is 14000 lbs / 1400 TW, so a TT closer to 10,000 @ 15% TW is still within specs. If going FW, then diesel is again a better choice because of larger frontal area than TT, IMO.

For our 23RB at about 6000 lbs loaded, the F250 gasser is more than enough truck. If I wanted a heavier TT or a FW, I would have gone diesel.

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Old 01-13-2016, 04:34 PM   #32
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F-150 and sway

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You make a great point and yours is a perfect example of "you don't know what you don't know"...Many people who tow have only used one vehicle, so they have no way to compare towing characteristics. To them, the way their F150 tows is "just fine" and they are satisfied with the amount of sway, braking distance and gas mileage. It's only after they experience another tow vehicle that they realize a significant difference in towing. That's when "the light comes on" (so to speak). It happened to you, it happened to me, and will "eventually" happen to others. It usually takes "the experience" of towing with a larger, more powerful vehicle for most people to realize how "under-rated" their "on the verge of being overloaded" vehicle really is.

What's the "old saying" ?? If only I'd have know this earlier........
My old F150 and trailer sway badly on I 75 toward Florida. In June a gust of wind moved the entire rig [both pieces] into the next lane. I dread when semi trucks approach from behind.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:03 AM   #33
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My old F150 and trailer sway badly on I 75 toward Florida. In June a gust of wind moved the entire rig [both pieces] into the next lane. I dread when semi trucks approach from behind.
Two things I found helped a little towing a TT was opening a window on both sides of the TT. I think it helped equalize the suction. When being passed by a larger vehicle just a little more gas, not gaining more than 1or 2 mph. Even with the bolt on sway control these things helped.

When I bought a new Equalizer WD hitch with sway control nearly all sway was gone. Now I have a 5er and rarely notice being passed and it takes a good broadside wind to feel it.
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Old 02-22-2016, 02:55 PM   #34
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One reason to go F250 diesel is that the receiver capacity of only 12400 lbs / 1240 TW on the F250 gasser limits the TT to just over 8000 lbs @ 15% TW if you want to stay within all specs. The diesel receiver rating is 14000 lbs / 1400 TW, so a TT closer to 10000 @ 15% TW is still within specs. If going FW, then diesel is again a better choice because of larger frontal area than TT, IMO.
Thanks for mentioning this. The F250 gas has a 1250 WDH limit on the receiver. That 1,250 is after the distribution system has been applied? I hope it doesn't mean the weight of the hitch prior to distribution.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:53 PM   #35
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This for my 2015 F250 gasser.


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Old 02-22-2016, 07:11 PM   #36
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Gas / diesel ~~ Everything from purchase, to fuel, to maintenance is more expensive on the diesel. It starts with the $8500 option price and never ends. Off highway finding fuel can be a drag at times. Lower payload too.

Still, I bought a 2016 diesel F250. Hauls our 5er just fine but close to payload capacity. Could have found a lighter pin or bought a 1 ton but this is the last camper. This is my daily driver too. Fun to drive. Stable towing. Both were a perfect choice.

Everyone makes their choice ~ just make it a safe one.
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:08 PM   #37
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My checkbook just gave birth to a 2005 Ford F-350 CC LB RWD with a 6.8L V10 engine and 5 speed auto. Who's good at making vroom vroom sounds?



I had been working with a local Ford dealer and then shifted gears. The salesman looked this vehicle up in OASIS and found that it had been serviced at the big Ford dealer in town for the majority of its life. I had a pre-purchase inspection done and a few things came up, including a rear pinion seal and front wheel bearing. The seller took care of them and I'm picking it up tomorrow.

Here's the camper it'll be pulling:

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Old 03-01-2016, 12:50 PM   #38
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Congratulations on the new truck AND new trailer !!! I suppose, for you, it'll almost be like "starting over from scratch" with all the possibilities for mods, additions and goodies you'll have to learn to say "no, not now" LOL

Enjoy your new rig and let us know how it's going as you get a feel for how it tows and how it camps !!!
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:59 PM   #39
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Thanks! Will do for sure. I'm going to have some more PM done on the truck before I hook the camper up. New diff fluid, maybe plugs/coils, etc. And definitely some M/S tires. It has pretty aggressive tires on it right now.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:27 PM   #40
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Best of luck with the new rig ~~ now go have fun
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