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Old 05-01-2022, 03:15 AM   #1
Pathman
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New guy from NJ

Hi all, I currently own a Winne Tarvato class B but am researching a Montana HC 295 RL.
I have a Ram 2500 with 4:10 rear that on paper appears to be adequate to tow the Montana.

Can anyone provide some input into how this combination would perform?

Looking forward to participating in this forum. The Travatos owners site was invaluable, so I’m happy to see there is also one for Keystone owners.
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Old 05-01-2022, 03:39 AM   #2
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Ram 2500 / Montana HC 295 RL?

Hey all, new guy here trying to determine if my Ram (with 4:10 rear) will be adequate to tow a Montana HC 295.
The delivery weight is 11,697, CC is 2,603, hitch 2,400, how does all that equate to actual tow weight?

Thanks!
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Old 05-01-2022, 03:51 AM   #3
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I have a 2020 Ram 2500 build/delivered with a 5th wheel hitch. When I went through this exercise the payload of abou 2000 lb (diesel, but the hitch is in that number) limited me to units that were about 8000 lbs loaded...with only my wife and I in the truck
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Old 05-01-2022, 03:56 AM   #4
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“Delivery weight” doesn’t count. Nobody will tow an empty trailer to the campground. On a fifth wheel use 23% of the GVWR of the trailer for a more accurate estimate of pin weight. In your case 3200 pounds of king pin, probably a bit over your trucks rating.
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:00 AM   #5
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Thanks for the reply Chuckster. So it all comes down to pin weight?

Also, how do I determine the GVWR of the trailer, it’s not listed on the spec sheet?
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:13 AM   #6
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Its "payload" that matters. Although my truck "pulls" 19k. From the delivery weight (including the 5th wheel hitch that sits in my garage). I can only put about 2k of weight in the truck. So I added a rail step so my short wife can get into the truck, a tonneau cover and a bed step. These total to say 100#, now I only have 1900# to work with... The big problem is 20-25% of of a 5th wheels weight sits in the bed of the truck.
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:18 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Pathman View Post
Thanks for the reply Chuckster. So it all comes down to pin weight?

Also, how do I determine the GVWR of the trailer, it’s not listed on the spec sheet?
Pin weight is important, GVWR is the shipping weight PLUS the CCC ( cargo carrying capacity).

It all come down to how much total weight you put in the truck. Look at the label in the trucks drivers door, you will find the GVWR of the truck and the RAWR ( rear axle weight rating). Take your truck to a CAT scale with everything and everybody you would have on your way to the campground. Subtract that number from the GVWR of the truck and you will have the legal limit of weight you can add (pin weight).

Lots of people tow over this limit, and some have zero issues. IF something we’re to happen and IF the other party decides to have it investigated, those weights may become a big factor. Ask yourself, is it worth the risk?

I’m only trying to give you the information you asked for, it’s your choice to decide what you want to do with it.
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Old 05-01-2022, 03:58 AM   #8
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Thanks Jay. 8K#? The tow capacity (not certain at this point exactly what that means) of the truck is a bit over 17K#, so now I’m really confused!��
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:15 AM   #9
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Thanks Jay. 8K#? The tow capacity (not certain at this point exactly what that means) of the truck is a bit over 17K#, so now I’m really confused!��
They don't make it easy. Payload is the term you need to acquaint yourself with. Look on the frame inside the drivers door and there is a yellow and white sticker with the payload specific to YOUR truck. Post a picture of it on here.
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:25 AM   #10
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Thanks guys, appreciate your patience, I’m sure you’ve all answered this same question many times!
I’ll post up a pic of the door tag shortly.
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:44 AM   #11
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Door tags.

Here are door tag pics. Appreciate further evaluation of tow vehicle limits.
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:47 AM   #12
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Pics seem a bit blurry (perfectly clear on my cam) but the CCC is 2,966.
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Old 05-01-2022, 04:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pathman View Post
Hey all, new guy here trying to determine if my Ram (with 4:10 rear) will be adequate to tow a Montana HC 295.
The delivery weight is 11,697, CC is 2,603, hitch 2,400, how does all that equate to actual tow weight?

Thanks!
Well based on your numbers,
Dry pin is 20.5% of dry weight.
GVWR of the 5th wheel is 11,697 + 2,603 = 14,300#
Possible 22% hitch weight 3,146# This will likely exceed the payload of your Ram 2500 by close to 1,000#.

The tow rating of 17,000# is the ablity to pull, Payload is the ablity to carry. With an flatbed equipment trailer one can easily arrange the load to keep the pin within the TV payload. This is not possible with an 5th wheel RV, you can only make some minor changes.
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Old 05-01-2022, 05:00 AM   #14
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Thanks rh, but with a CCC of 2,966 for my truck, the disparity would appear much closer than you stated, so what am I missing from the equation?
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Old 05-01-2022, 07:22 AM   #15
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Thanks rh, but with a CCC of 2,966 for my truck, the disparity would appear much closer than you stated, so what am I missing from the equation?
My bad, I assumed that you had a Cummins.
Hemi got you and extra about 900# of payload, just hope you have the 8 speed auto.
If the truck is a long bed, I would get the Reese Goosebox pin box to save weight, you will still be tight on payload.
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Old 05-01-2022, 10:55 AM   #16
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My bad, I assumed that you had a Cummins.
Hemi got you and extra about 900# of payload, just hope you have the 8 speed auto.
If the truck is a long bed, I would get the Reese Goosebox pin box to save weight, you will still be tight on payload.
Yeah 6.4, but short bed with gooseneck prep.
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Old 05-01-2022, 05:14 AM   #17
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To add to the above, it's not just the pin weight that will eat up your trucks 2,966 pounds of payload. Payload consists of:
  • The weight of all occupants in the truck
  • The weight of the 5th wheel hitch
  • The weight of any other gear, tools, coolers etc. in the cab or bed
  • The weight of the pin

In your 14,300 GVWR trailer, estimate 22% pin weight at 3,146 lbs, add 150 more for the hitch, 300 more for occupants and 150 more for miscellaneous tools and gear. In this example, that's 3,746 lbs of payload, putting you 780 lbs over your sticker amount.

Payload is dynamic. It is simply the GVWR of your truck (10K) - curb weight. If you really want to see how much you have available for pin weight, load up the truck completely for camping, including all persons, tools, coolers etc and go weigh it at a CAT scale. Subtract this weight from the 10K GVWR to see what you've got left for the pin (don't forget to count 150 for the hitch if it's not in the truck already).
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Old 05-01-2022, 05:31 AM   #18
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To add to the above, it's not just the pin weight that will eat up your trucks 2,966 pounds of payload. Payload consists of:
  • The weight of all occupants in the truck
  • The weight of the 5th wheel hitch
  • The weight of any other gear, tools, coolers etc. in the cab or bed
  • The weight of the pin

In your 14,300 GVWR trailer, estimate 22% pin weight at 3,146 lbs, add 150 more for the hitch, 300 more for occupants and 150 more for miscellaneous tools and gear. In this example, that's 3,746 lbs of payload, putting you 780 lbs over your sticker amount.

Payload is dynamic. It is simply the GVWR of your truck (10K) - curb weight. If you really want to see how much you have available for pin weight, load up the truck completely for camping, including all persons, tools, coolers etc and go weigh it at a CAT scale. Subtract this weight from the 10K GVWR to see what you've got left for the pin (don't forget to count 150 for the hitch if it's not in the truck already).
300 lbs for the passengers? Bwhahahaha
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Old 05-01-2022, 05:33 AM   #19
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It’s getting clearer by the minute guys!

So would you say I’d need to limit a trailers dry weight to ~10k in order to be within spec of payload capacity?
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Old 05-01-2022, 05:51 AM   #20
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It’s getting clearer by the minute guys!

So would you say I’d need to limit a trailers dry weight to ~10k in order to be within spec of payload capacity?
Nope, gross weight of 10K lbs. A fifth wheel will then have about 2300 lbs pin weight; add passengers, hitch and other stuff added to the truck and you will be at your max payload. Other option is to look for a travel trailer as they put about 13 percent of their weight on the tongue. That would be 1300 lbs for a 10K lb. gross weight travel trailer.
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