Anyone towing with a smaller 2 axle semi truck? What are the pros and cons? My 2004 F-350 is overloaded when towing my 2009 Raptor 361LEV (16,500 lbs) I would have to step up to a 550 to technically be legal which are pricey. Used semi trucks are 1/4 of the price of a used 550. Just a thought on using a semi....
Sportfisherman, any of the big three duallys will be legal with any of the Raptors. You have been fed some bad information.
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Jim in Memphis, Wife of 51 years is Brenda
2019 F450 6.7 Powerstroke
2018 Mobile Suites 40RSSA
2021 40' Jayco Eagle
2001 Road king w/matching Harley sidecar
2021 Yamaha X2 Wolverine 1000
I just came back from camping over the holiday weekend and there was a few guys in the CG hauling Toy Haulers with 3500 DRW, you won't need a semi to haul the toy hauler
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Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
pros, you definitely would not be overloaded, if it has a decent seat it can be more comfortable for long trips. Cons, maintenance costs (they are designed to go a long way, but when they break you will pay), fuel costs, registration costs, CDL required.
Like others have pointed out, I have trouble believing a dually is overloaded, but if it is a 450/4500 should be more than enough for a Raptor. Yours shows an advertised pin weight of 2745. I can see you getting into the 3500 lb range easily, but that should not require a 550. When I was transporting, there were a few RVs that required a bigger truck than a dually for the company to stay legal.
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Brent
2013 Alpine 3500RE
2019 Silverado 2500HD Duramax
U.S. Air Force Retired (25 yrs)
Lots of 'Big 3' dually choices that make more sense then a HD over the road tractor with a modified suspension. If you prefer a Ford, you can move up to an F450 or as one of the seasonals at our summer CG, an F550. He is hauling a 43 plus foot Tesla toy hauler back and forth from Texas every year. But, with that said, there are some MD trucks by manufacturers such as Freightliner and Volvo with single axle setups that can be spec'd perfectly for virtually any RV 5er that don't have the massive size of a twin axle HD tractor that will prevent you from using many CGs, state, federal and private.
My wife and I are just starting out in the full time RV life, but after lots of research and trying to find a suitable truck to haul our 2012 Keystone Rapter 4014LEV that grosses at 18k lbs, I decided to go the HDT route and I couldn't be any happier with my decision. My last diesel truck was 1998.5 Dodge Ram 2500 long bed truck that I sold some years back, so when we bought our 5th wheel, I was shopping for a 2003-2006 3500 DRW truck to stay prior to the 2007 emission trucks and to find something in my budget. Much to my surprise, the 3500 trucks of that year generation maxed out at around 15,500lbs or so which is the range the OP is in. Knowing my trailer grossed at 18k lbs, this wasn't going to work for me as I wanted more than enough truck to tow my rig. It wasn't until much later years that to tow ratings on 3500's went way up, but so did the prices and the complications from adding DPF & DEF, etc. I then shopped 4500-5500 trucks or MDT trucks, but most of these were either expensive or had been worn out from being used commercially. I had been lurking on the HDT forum for awhile and decided to get serious about buying one of those. I lucked out and located a 2000 Volvo 610 (mid rise sleeper) singled short that had been owned by the same gentleman for the past 13 years.
My 2000 Volvo 610 has a Detroit Diesel 60 series with 435hp/1850lbs torque. It started life as a commercial truck, but came off the road in 2004 with 462k miles. The previous owner purchased the truck and converted it to single axle by moving the rear axle to the front position and shortening the frame and added a goose neck to haul his horse trailer around the Sierra's in Southern CA. He only put on 18k miles in 13 years of ownership, but was getting into his 70's and decided it was time to sell the truck. I was estatic to find a low mileage Gen 1 volvo with less than 500k original miles on it (most of these go 1 million miles before an overhaul) not to mention at a price that was less than many 10-12 year old 3500's with upwards of 200k on them. You get so much more truck for your money.
I flew to CA and drove the truck home to GA. Over the course of those 2k miles, I fell in love with the truck and how great it was to drive. I knew I had made the right choice, especially after towing my large 5th wheel with it, I'm so glad I'm not in a smaller truck! With my setup, my truck weighs around 15-16k by its self so it weighs close to what the 5th wheel will weigh fully loaded, unlike a 3500 where the trailer can weigh quite a bit more than the truck, so it's way less likely for me to have a case of the tail wagging the dog in less than ideal towing conditions or emergency manuvers. HDT trucks are built for driver comfort with air ride seats, cabs, & suspension, sleeper in the back, sometimes a fridge/microwave, lots of storage and best of all they carry 200-300gals of fuel so you don't have to stop to get fuel nearly as often. I can be choosy and find the cheap gas and not fill up in a state if it's expensive. The trucks have way more gears for climbing & decscending steep grades and a true 3 stage jake brake will out perform a singe exhaust brake any day. For those that don't want to shift gears, there have been semi automatics for years and Volvo's fully auto i-shift is considered top notch in these trucks!
Most people will say, but they are so much bigger. In reality, the HDT trucks are the same width as a 3500 dually is in the back, it's just that width all the way down the truck. The midrise sleeper on my truck is only 10'11" so I'm still a lot shorter than my 13'6" 5th wheel and even a full height condo sleeper is also around 13'6". My Volvo singled short is 184" wheel base which is only a few inches longer than a long bed dually, and best of all with my 50" wheel cut, I can turn sharper than any 2500-3500 truck could dream about. Can you make a u-turn on a 4 lane divided highway from a turn lane withoun running all up over the curb? That 50" wheel cut means I barely cross over into the 2nd lane. Driving the truck around bobtail is actually a lot easier than you would imagine and as long as I respect my height and little bit extra length, I'm good.
There's a lot of misinformation about towing with a semi and one of the most frequent bad info is you have to have a CDL. You only need a CDL if you are hauling commerce for payment which we are not doing. Most HDT owners get their truck registered as private trucks or RV's and have private not for hire on the side. This means depending on the state they can be driven with regular licenses or maybe a non commercial Class A equivalent license. In GA, anything over 26k lbs GWVR or towing over a 10lbs trailer requires a Class E non commercial license, so that would apply to even the latest pickups and large 5th wheels as they cross that threshold. TX has been doing the same thing requiring Class A DP's or large 5th wheels to get a higher class license which isn't a bad thing in my eyes. Also because we aren't hauling commercially, we don't have to stop at scales.
Another advantage of an HDT truck is depending on how you set it up, you can mount a nice bed on the back and carry anything from motorcycles to a smart car sideways or even full size cars. The smart cars are very popular to carry behind the cab on the HDT truck so you have a little car for errands. Since my truck is singled short, I don't have room for a smart car, but I do plan on carrying maybe a motorcycle or two or get a large drom box (storage box) to keep back there.
This is my wife and I when I first brought our HDT home
And after her first ride in it, she was all smiles
This is my Volvo 610 and Raptor 4014LEV just yesterday. You can get a size reference of the HDT against the 42' 5th wheel.
Look at all that room and how high you sit
Lots of room in the back and I only have a single bunk sleeper. You can get a workstation in some of the setups with a dining room table back there like you would find in an RV
Great looking rig. No doubt the best towing option out there. Just curious, if your use of the 5th wheel are long trips with a lot of stops to sight see, what limitations do you have? Narrow roads, low clearances, parking, places that say "no semis", etc? Can't imagine driving the 19 miles up Pikes Peak for example!
That's an awesome rig, but I was thinking more of a "Day Cab" semi. These can be had for $25,000 or less.
The day cab or even say a smaller regional truck like the Volvo 420 or 430 that only have a small sleeper behind the cab without the extra stuff certainly give you a smaller truck with a lower roof line that still has the advantages of a larger truck with better carrying capacity without the height restrictions. And yes, you can get those for great prices. However, I felt the midroof line gave us a nice jump in extra space without the going overkill on the condo height sleepers or extended sleepers. Everything is a trade off of course, it just depends on your needs.
Some people with the condo sleepers use their trucks as a 2nd RV for maybe 2-3 day trips where they might go somewhere they can't get their large 5th wheel, but still have the advantage of a bed, fridge, and microwave in the truck. That's something we might look into if we set the truck up to carry two motorcycles on the bed so we can take the truck to a more remote location to stay for a day or two.
Great looking rig. No doubt the best towing option out there. Just curious, if your use of the 5th wheel are long trips with a lot of stops to sight see, what limitations do you have? Narrow roads, low clearances, parking, places that say "no semis", etc? Can't imagine driving the 19 miles up Pikes Peak for example!
Well, we are just getting started so we'll see how we adapt to this setup. I don't feel like the big truck is going to limit us any more than a standard pickup pulling the same size 5th wheel. Obviously the fairly large 5th wheel has it's limitations regardless of what you pull it with, but as for where I can take the big truck bob tail, other than height restrictions, I can go anywhere a long bed dually can go. We plan to use the big truck to run errands and get groceries if needed. I've already driven the truck around a lot bob tail that I'm very comfortable driving it. Now I'm not taking it through a drive through at the local fast food joint, but I can certainly find a place to park it. We are also avid motorcyclists (adventure and dual sport) so we'll be carrying motorcycles in the toy hauler and that's how we plan to get around to the places the truck can't go. Our whole purpose to go on the road is to go chase the good weather and go places we want to go explore on our motorcycles. We got tired of the 1-2 week motorcycle trips only to rush back home, so this is our way to go find places we want to visit and go explore all the good riding on and off road.
Unless you have multiple large trailers to pull, why wouldn't you just buy a Motorhome at this point?
To invest in a HDT for the sole purpose of pulling the trailer seems like a wash to owning a Motorhome. Still have to store both HDT and trailer, can only be used during RV outings, etc. With a normal light or medium duty truck, at least you can still use the rig as a daily or weekend driver and get some return on that investment.
I can't see that HDT as a sight seeing vehicle such as at the 'Big 5' in Utah or the Pike's Peak road or San Fransico's Lombard St. Then there is all that fun trying to park at the local super market or even parallel park at a restaurant in any city of size for a night out. Even my 172" wheel base CCLB can be a PITA with a huge turning radius too short and narrow parking lot spaces with too little room between rows. We often get our exercise walking from the North Forty area. Then there is the cost of ownership - and I don't mean fuel but license, insurance, normal maintenance, tires, the occasional impossible to obtain parts in West Overshoe on a Saturday afternoon. Oh and some (many?) states like NY, you will need a different driver's license classification and competancy test if you exceed 26,000 pounds combined weight, truck and towed load.
But - to each his own. OP, due diligence, a wallet thickness check and a few hours is the only way to reason this out FOR YOUR needs. Let us know what you decide.
I could be wrong, but I believe you follow the license rules from your home state. If you live in Kentucky and have a standard KY drivers license and then drive into NY, you still carry the rules you had in KY. You would not need to follow the NY license rules.
I could be wrong, but I believe you follow the license rules from your home state. If you live in Kentucky and have a standard KY drivers license and then drive into NY, you still carry the rules you had in KY. You would not need to follow the NY license rules.
You are correct, and if the OP does go the HDT route, he'll be able to use his regular license and register it as an RV, just have to put [not for hire, personal use] on the side. If I were to go that route, I'd get an auto though, no need to get a manual for towing a fiver.
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Mike
2016 Chevy 3500 CC Dually Duramx LTZ (aka: BigBootyJudy)
2013 PT Tracer 3200 BHT
Who was talking about KY? Not me. I stated NY regs while the OP lives in California with even more ridiculous driving rules and regulations. Not for hire printed on the side of a truck/trailer over 26 K pounds, registered in NY and driven by a NY licensed operator wont do a thing for you without the correct license endorsement. You will still be required to stop at a NY trooper check points with a HDT and be subject to vehicle inspection and license check. That's my state's apples. If you feel the need to discuss some other state's oranges - go for it.
I can't see that HDT as a sight seeing vehicle such as at the 'Big 5' in Utah or the Pike's Peak road or San Fransico's Lombard St. Then there is all that fun trying to park at the local super market or even parallel park at a restaurant in any city of size for a night out. Even my 172" wheel base CCLB can be a PITA with a huge turning radius too short and narrow parking lot spaces with too little room between rows. We often get our exercise walking from the North Forty area. Then there is the cost of ownership - and I don't mean fuel but license, insurance, normal maintenance, tires, the occasional impossible to obtain parts in West Overshoe on a Saturday afternoon. Oh and some (many?) states like NY, you will need a different driver's license classification and competancy test if you exceed 26,000 pounds combined weight, truck and towed load.
But - to each his own. OP, due diligence, a wallet thickness check and a few hours is the only way to reason this out FOR YOUR needs. Let us know what you decide.
I know most of this was directed at the OP and his decision, but I'll throw in my thoughts and what comparisons I made and maybe that will help him too.
Just like a long bed dually pickup, you certainly need to consider the consequences on where you decided to drive an HDT truck. Could you go to all the sight seeing places on it, probably not, but we ride motorcycles and I can certainly take those anywhere we want. I also mentioned above many HDT owners carry a smart car on the deck of their truck as their sight seeing and errand running vehicle. You can go a lot places in a smart car much easier than a 3500 truck and you still have the advantage of a much better towing vehicle the rest of the time. My wife even mentioned if we decide we like this lifestyle and would rather have a smaller vehicle for those times we don't want to ride the bikes, we might look at a HDT with a bed that has room for a smart car and go that route. For now though, we are going to try it with just the motorcycles and HDT for transportation.
I've been up Pike's Peak and down Lobard street on motorcycles, both destinations are a lot of fun. I wouldn't hesitate to take just the HDT up Pikes Peak, it wouldn't be any worse than a large pickup or even some of the Class A or C motorhomes you see on it, but it wouldn't be my first choice either. Again that's where a motorcycle shines for us as that's the type of things we like to go visit on our bikes. Lombard st, would you really even want to take a Dually there? It could do it, but it wouldn't be much fun. I've parked at restaurants and shopping centers before. We usually are way out in the parking lot, but that is no biggie, it just gives us a little more walking to enjoy. Going into any large city center with the HDT would be a challenge for sure, but so is a dually pickup. Small parking lots, narrow lanes, and tight turns become your nemesis in those situations, again just pick your battles on where you want to travel.
I look at my HDT like a UPS truck. Pretty much if a UPS package truck can fit, I should also make it in just the truck.
As for maintenance, there might be a higher cost of some things intially, but generally they last a whole lot longer on an HDT when professional drivers put on over 100k a year so things certainly need to last a long time for them. I had to replace the muffler on my truck, $100 shipped to my house. My HDT has 6 tires just like a dually and I bet they last a whole lot longer on the HDT and price wise they aren't that much more expensive. I'll never wear out a set of tires on my truck, they will age out before they wear out. My truck is pre emissions so I don't have any of the EGR, DPF, DEF systems to worry about to break, service or replace. Fuel mileage is a wash. The 3500 most certainly does better empty, but I bet the HDT does better towing overall, and I can go much longer between fuel stops with 200-300gals of fuel on board so that means less stop and less aggravation trying to find places to fuel up. As for parts and general service, there are professional truck drivers all over the country that have to get their trucks serviced all the time and replace parts. Finding parts for my truck is the least of my worries and I bet it's a lot easier than you would expect.
As for the license like you mentioned in NY, it certainly does depend on your home state. For me in GA, it did require a Class E license, but that was easy to get. The way the laws read in GA, I think even large pickup trucks pulling 5th wheels over 10k lbs would require the same license so that isn't different for either one.
HDT's are certainly not for everyone, but you can buy a lot of truck for your money and if you understand the limitations, but also the advantages, it could be exactly what someone is looking for.
Someone mentioned having an automatic and I would agree. I did buy a manual because it was cheaper and it way less to go wrong, but unless you really like shifting gears (I mean a lot), one of the semi-automatics is probably much better suited to most people.
This is a condo height Volvo 780, but you can carry the heaviest 5th wheel you want, travel in the ultimate comfort and safety of a big truck, and best of all have a smart car to drive around in to go to dinner, go to the store, etc.
Jack & Danielle have a lot of good info on their web page about traveling in an HDT which they have been doing for 15 or more years I think. - http://www.jackdanmayer.com/
another condo height sleeper with a smart car bed
This was the East Coast HDT Rally this year in TN
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Thas was the 2016 rally. The lady that Greg talks to is the primary driver of their HDT setup
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. Let us know what you decide.
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